grounding probe? Does it need to be hooked directly to the outlet?????? - Page 3

nsamuel · 06/15/2008, 12:16 PM

Went yesterday Lowe's and Home depot today to check out what GFCI are available. I found this cool "portable GFCI" made by Shock Buster. You can plug it into a grounded outlet, but it has only one outlet for use. The box did not say anything about "auto reset after power outage" (which i think is important for our purposes. They had another product which is 3 outlet inline GFCI, which has the auto reset feature, but 3 times more expensive. I can plug in 3 things into this (a heater, powerhead and airpump). I am not worried about one fault bringing 3 things down, because if a fault occurs that means i was next to the aquarium. And i can always reset it after a fault. So, it seems like plugging in 3 units into the same GFCI seems like cost saving and viable alternative. The store also had another GFCI made by shock buster that was "multiple outlet". It plugs into one wall outlet and provides 5 outlets all protected by GFCI. This was the cost effective solution, but again the box did not say if this had a "auto reset after power outage" feature, which is most important in my thoughts.

anyone has any of these units in their home ? What do u think ?

BeanAnimal · 06/15/2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

because if a fault occurs that means i was next to the aquarium

No a fault can occur in many ways, so can a nuisance trip. You do not have to be next to the aquarium for a fault to occur.

Is spending $20 instead of $100 and losing $3,000 in livestock cost effective? Just something to think about.

Plenty (most) people use a single GFCI to power their aquarium. I just don't like the idea (for reasons already mentioned)

It has also been reported that many of the "cord and plug" type GFCI units are much more prone to nuisance tripping. The evidence is anecdotal but there does appear to be a pattern.

nsamuel · 06/15/2008, 06:20 PM

Unfortunately, the feature that i consider as important ("auto reset after power outage, when power comes back on") is available only in the "inline, corded" version of this company (shock buster). My research does not show that the 1 outlet version of this product has this needed feature. I have not yet looked into the GFCI receptacles, which would yield me 2 outlets. But then these receptacle types also can be used only for 1 plug, if i follow your logic........ The main purpose of using the GFCI is to protect me so i dont get electrocuted. So, dont i have to be next to the aquarium, to get electrocuted :-) There may be other situations, but do they really concern me ?

I have another plan thats in my mind. If i had one GFCI hooked upto another GFCI (to extend the number of outlets available near the tank).....then would both GFCI trip if i had a fault ? or only the first one in line trips and the one behind it would still stay on ?

sabbath · 06/15/2008, 06:35 PM

You can plug a 6 plug... Power stip into a GFCI

GFCI also CAN protect you from a fire.

BeanAnimal · 06/16/2008, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nsamuel
Unfortunately, the feature that i consider as important ("auto reset after power outage, when power comes back on") is available only in the "inline, corded" version of this company (shock buster).

Most GFCIs do not need reset after a power outage. You can always return the product if it does not meet your expectations.

Quote:

But then these receptacle types also can be used only for 1 plug, if i follow your logic........

I never said that you coult not, or should not plug more than one device into a GFCI. I said that it is a GOOD IDEA to segregate your critical equipment between several GFCIs.

Quote:

The main purpose of using the GFCI is to protect me so i dont get electrocuted. So, dont i have to be next to the aquarium, to get electrocuted :-) There may be other situations, but do they really concern me ?

The GFCI will help to protect you. But its operation is not tied to your presence. A faulting piece of equipment or nuisance trip can occur at any time. If you are NOT home, then how would you know? If everything is on one GFCI, then everything will be de-energized (read: dead livestock) when you find the tank.

Quote:

I have another plan thats in my mind. If i had one GFCI hooked upto another GFCI (to extend the number of outlets available near the tank).....then would both GFCI trip if i had a fault ? or only the first one in line trips and the one behind it would still stay on ?

No, you can NOT put GFCIs in series. Strange things will happen (read: the setup will be VERY unpredictable).

Bean

Saboral · 06/16/2008, 06:40 AM

No the probe is a good thing. Even without a GFCI it can save your life and the lives of your tank inhabitants. I have been shocked by so many other people's setups because they don't have one. I am a journeyman electrician. A setup with a couple of GFCIs would be a great idea. The only problem with a grounding probe is that if a complete circuit is made through the probe the wiring is too small to handle the current for any extended period and my start a fire, however if this is a residential outlet with a 15 or 20amp breaker I garunttee it will trip the breaker before the wire lights up. I've been there and my grounding probe has stopped me from getting shocked countless times.

BeanAnimal · 06/16/2008, 06:54 AM

A ground probe without the use of GFCIs introduces a significant danger that would otherwise not be present. If you use a ground probe, you really must use GFCIs on all tank (and/or nearby) equipment.

BeanAnimal · 06/16/2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

however if this is a residential outlet with a 15 or 20amp breaker I garunttee it will trip the breaker before the wire lights up

I do not agree at all. Electrical fires start every day without a breaker tripping. Will the ground probe wire glow red hot before the breaker trips? Not likely, but anything else that is partially grounded may.

nsamuel · 06/17/2008, 12:09 AM

Bean - thanks for your replies. I understand your statements. If there is a GFCI, and if all the tank equipment and surrounding electricals are plugged into GFCI one way or another, then i dont see how a shock can occur. I am inclined not to use a probe after much reading, because there is as much pros as cons to using a probe. Without a probe, there is no way for the leaking current to complete a circuit (the GFCI would trip). There are coincidence reported linking stray electromagnetic currents affecting fish - but this is somewhat like humans getting ailments because of cell phone usage close to the ear. Not enough proof for conclusive statements, as of now.

So, i guess no one has the GFCI from Shock Buster. I will buy and try and report, as this is the brand thats being sold by many online outlets.

salmon alley · 06/17/2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

No, you can NOT put GFCIs in series. Strange things will happen (read: the setup will be VERY unpredictable).

So, if I'm tapping off a 20A circuit which currently feeds ONLY a GFCI receptacle in a bathroom, I need to tap into the circuit BEFORE that receptacle and NOT as a load from that outlet, right?

PS- sorry about the mini-hijack of your thread...

sabbath · 06/17/2008, 08:55 AM

Yes, Unless you want the tank to be protected by the Bathroom GFCI. Do not add any more GFCI after that.

Go to the Line side of it and then you can add a GFCI or more at the tank. Just wire all of then to the Line sides of the outlet.

06/15/2008, 12:16 PM	#51
nsamuel Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 14	Went yesterday Lowe's and Home depot today to check out what GFCI are available. I found this cool "portable GFCI" made by Shock Buster. You can plug it into a grounded outlet, but it has only one outlet for use. The box did not say anything about "auto reset after power outage" (which i think is important for our purposes. They had another product which is 3 outlet inline GFCI, which has the auto reset feature, but 3 times more expensive. I can plug in 3 things into this (a heater, powerhead and airpump). I am not worried about one fault bringing 3 things down, because if a fault occurs that means i was next to the aquarium. And i can always reset it after a fault. So, it seems like plugging in 3 units into the same GFCI seems like cost saving and viable alternative. The store also had another GFCI made by shock buster that was "multiple outlet". It plugs into one wall outlet and provides 5 outlets all protected by GFCI. This was the cost effective solution, but again the box did not say if this had a "auto reset after power outage" feature, which is most important in my thoughts. anyone has any of these units in their home ? What do u think ?

06/15/2008, 06:20 PM	#53
nsamuel Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 14	Unfortunately, the feature that i consider as important ("auto reset after power outage, when power comes back on") is available only in the "inline, corded" version of this company (shock buster). My research does not show that the 1 outlet version of this product has this needed feature. I have not yet looked into the GFCI receptacles, which would yield me 2 outlets. But then these receptacle types also can be used only for 1 plug, if i follow your logic........ The main purpose of using the GFCI is to protect me so i dont get electrocuted. So, dont i have to be next to the aquarium, to get electrocuted :-) There may be other situations, but do they really concern me ? I have another plan thats in my mind. If i had one GFCI hooked upto another GFCI (to extend the number of outlets available near the tank).....then would both GFCI trip if i had a fault ? or only the first one in line trips and the one behind it would still stay on ?

06/15/2008, 06:35 PM	#54
sabbath Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Twin City's Mn. Posts: 1,771	You can plug a 6 plug... Power stip into a GFCI GFCI also CAN protect you from a fire.

06/16/2008, 06:40 AM	#56
Saboral Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Blacksburg, Va Posts: 368	No the probe is a good thing. Even without a GFCI it can save your life and the lives of your tank inhabitants. I have been shocked by so many other people's setups because they don't have one. I am a journeyman electrician. A setup with a couple of GFCIs would be a great idea. The only problem with a grounding probe is that if a complete circuit is made through the probe the wiring is too small to handle the current for any extended period and my start a fire, however if this is a residential outlet with a 15 or 20amp breaker I garunttee it will trip the breaker before the wire lights up. I've been there and my grounding probe has stopped me from getting shocked countless times.

06/16/2008, 06:54 AM	#57
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	A ground probe without the use of GFCIs introduces a significant danger that would otherwise not be present. If you use a ground probe, you really must use GFCIs on all tank (and/or nearby) equipment.

06/17/2008, 12:09 AM	#59
nsamuel Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 14	Bean - thanks for your replies. I understand your statements. If there is a GFCI, and if all the tank equipment and surrounding electricals are plugged into GFCI one way or another, then i dont see how a shock can occur. I am inclined not to use a probe after much reading, because there is as much pros as cons to using a probe. Without a probe, there is no way for the leaking current to complete a circuit (the GFCI would trip). There are coincidence reported linking stray electromagnetic currents affecting fish - but this is somewhat like humans getting ailments because of cell phone usage close to the ear. Not enough proof for conclusive statements, as of now. So, i guess no one has the GFCI from Shock Buster. I will buy and try and report, as this is the brand thats being sold by many online outlets.

06/17/2008, 08:55 AM	#61
sabbath Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Twin City's Mn. Posts: 1,771	Yes, Unless you want the tank to be protected by the Bathroom GFCI. Do not add any more GFCI after that. Go to the Line side of it and then you can add a GFCI or more at the tank. Just wire all of then to the Line sides of the outlet.