LFP's Xenon Projection and Cree LED DIY lighting system.

[tarzan]

Originally posted by liveforphysics
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/12/aafeature1

It makes me want to re-evaluate my bulb choices to exclude the purple bulbs that had a few heavy red lines... The more I learn about corals, the more I realize they do not want anything like full spectrum lighting. I'm glad most of the Xenon bulbs and all of the LEDs are mainly composed of strong blue spikes in useful photosynthetic wavelengths.

Best Wishes,
-Luke

First i need to say it's an interesting approach, quite a costly one (compared to T5 only setup), but if the electricity bill will be lower, the lifespan of lamps better and coral growth same or even better than with T5's, it's definitely a way to go (if in 2 years the investment difference is covered), but we'll have to wait and see how it will go first... I do not want to be skeptical, i would just like to encourage you to take some more precise spectral measurements of Xenons used. I don't know what their spectral color distribution is , i hope that it doesn't just have few spikes on right areas (if it emits light just in a narrow area of 10nm on blue and red part of scale). Sure hope to see some graphs.

Regarding the articles you posted I hope you don't plan to go "all blue" (as the articles suggests), blue is the wavelength corals gain most from, but hey, what about us? Don't we want them in our tanks just to be able to see part of nature in their actual colors? What is the point in having a yellow coral and watching it just under blue lights (I know you are not doing this, I'm just joking:P).

Just love your work, keep it coming !!!
For some nice graphs of chlorophyll's light absorption capability and PAR value theory here's a link to paper.

[liveforphysics]

I reached 200 hrs of burn-in time on the lamps, and I took new spectral data. This time I was able to gain the use of a very nice machine to use. You can see the output graphs on the most recent update.

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/part...ghting-system/

Enjoy!
-Luke

[ReefEnabler]

wow.... the 12k and 25k bulbs have some of the most natural spectrums I've ever seen according to those spectral analysis graphs. bravo!

so when are you going into full production... taking preorders yet???


your comments on why you upgraded to your current tank make me want to upgrade for the same reason (damn you). I thought a tall tank was the way to go, but wet armpits are no good!

[liveforphysics]

Those 12k and 25k blue bulbs sure do look like a delightful coral spectrum don't they Oddly, they are from different manufactures, yet very similar.

Before I could recommend anyone to try this sort of lighting, I need to make sure that my corals continue to look healthy for a longer period of time. I also feel a need to get some idea of the real lifespan of the bulbs. I know the manufacture states 3000-5000hrs, but I think nothing beats real world testing.

Thanks for the kind words!

-Luke

[Adrianvh]

is it possible to mention bulb brands and models?

[JustinReef]

I know someone who has been using HID lighting over his reef for about 6 months now and it looks great. I will get more details or see if he is a member here and will post.

Actually I know someone else on my local forum using them over a nano for the past 4 or 5 months too. It looks great as well. There was a lot of talk about this on my local forum.

I even bought a bunch of them for supplemental spots over my tank but have not gotten around to using them yet. My brother works for a car parts shop and gets them and the lamps at cost, so its something I am interested in for sure.

For me though I could never light a whole tank like this...looks way too unnatural. IMO they are better for supplemental light but just because of aesthetics.

[liveforphysics]

I think about 3/4 of all reefkeepers use HID lighting I assume you mean Xenon HID lamps right? Projected or reflected? If projected, did they find a more economical source for projection optics? I would be VERY happy if you could find a link to share with us. It would be very comforting to get to see how well they grow coral over a longer time period, and how the bulbs maintain output over time.


My snails must be ****ed! They've given up even searching the glass for algae, and seem to be mostly roaming the rocks only. I am certainly not missing needing to clean my glass every week!

The unlit glass disappears so well, I've actually bumped my nose into it a few times while watching the tank. I enjoy the animals floating in air illusion much more than the animals behind a well illuminated clear barrier appearance I used to have.

[Paul_PSU]

Luke,
Bravo! Your endeavors are always fascinating to follow (loved your tank thread). It is refreshing to see people like yourself that are in the community and continually doing so much to try to advance it. Keep up the great work.

Paul

[ReefEnabler]

Luke hope you don't mind me posting these comparisons (not sure how valid the comparisons are due to different intstruments but I assume a somewhat relative comparison is valid):

Spectral analysis and PAR values of a natural reef at various depths. It's from advanced aquarist, Hahn posted it over in the lighting thread:



Now Luke's 25k xenon HID:



Looks alot like the natural curve at about 5m depth.

Anybody who has spent alot of time looking at spectral graphs for MH bulbs knows that its just about impossible to get that close to the overall lighting curve without supplementation schemes.

Most MH bulbs have an ackward spikey spectrum of some kind.

I'd say the XM10k comes *close* but the overall shape of the curve is different, and far spikier. Every single blue MH bulb I've looked at has a spike in blue without the gradual descent into red that happens in nature.

Bluer bulbs seem to have a blue spike and then the rest of the graph is pretty boring.

Anybody who wants to browse through MH bulb data should check out the new location for Sanjay's lighting info:
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting

Browse by Color Temp. Check out XM10k and Radium 20k as examples....

[liveforphysics]

To save folks the trouble, I hosted a few of Sanjay's graphs of the bulbs I often see used, most of them I've used myself at some point. You can read the bulb type in the upper corner of each graph.

[liveforphysics]

Sanjay uses 400nm to 700nm for the color range on his graphs. So, I cropped my plots to just include the same range to make it easier to compare.






It's tough not to draw the conclusion that Xenon is able to duplicate natural reef lighting spectra much better than metal halide. This was totally unexpected.

Great observations Reef Enabler!

-Luke

[driftin]

Is there a way to correlate the two Y-axis units?

Interesting that there is a significant valley in the Xenon charts at ~450nm, where some of the MH's have their peak.

[liveforphysics]

Nope, Y-axis units are just relative to the rest of the graph.

Also, it would look pretty silly to relate Y-axis's between 35w bulbs and 250w-400w MH bulbs

Put the 400w MH in a reflector and put the 35w in a projector and set the light meter a few feet away and we could compare intensity

Best Wishes,
-Luke

[liveforphysics]

Paul-PSU Thank you much for your kindness. It means a lot to me.

[newreef8584]

Luke I can't stress this enough.. Keep it up! Regardless of the outcome it is the pioneering spirit that drives this and every other hobby/obsession further. Unfortunately I have been banned by the wife from anymore DIY'ng for a while. Some crazy stuff about paying the morgage and leases, who knows!lol

My only complaint is, I would like to see a series of FTS's of the different stages in the lighting cycle to get a better handle on the actual look from the in front of the tank perspective.

[A.T.T.R]

there we go
glad to see you actualy tested ( to many people claim to do somthing but really have no clue whats going on)

anychance that you got par readings off the bulbs aswell?


for you this may be a good option because of your goal. but its still much more expensive then using the commonly useed MH components

[tahiriqbal]

Please could you tell me if you are using any dimmer control unit to control these LED lights? I am also in the process of making my own dimmable LED which are rated at 72 watts per strip (5060SMD 4800 lumens per strip, 8000k), hoping to use 10 strips in total. Each strip is rated at 72 watts, quite powerful in pure white colour not cool white colour. I was also hoping to insert three 1.5 meter long RGB flexible strips too. I want all these strips to be connected to one transformer and I need to know which transformer have you been using or would recommend? I am looking for dimmable transformer and cant seems to find anywhere. Please would you help me to solve this issue? I am based in the UK but don't mind importing from the US.
I am also looking for an independent dimmer control unit which could run these led strips and could perform full lunar cycle. I would highly appreciate you kind help and guidance.

Thanks

[liveforphysics]

tahiriqbal- I use groups of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...BSI%26otn%3D12

[ReefEnabler]

how do you control the current?

do you need to use a microprocessor with pulse width modulation (similar to how a MOSFET transistor is controlled)?

[liveforphysics]

0-5v signal to range from 70mA to 700mA on that model.

They didn't seem to offer the model that I bought from the same seller about a year ago. It uses the same 0-5v signal to vary the power between 15mA to 1000mA.

[Harry_Fish]

Is there any way to widen the beam.

a little less spotlight efffect?

[mano1192]

A couple FTS shots would be great. How are your corals doing, do you see the same growth rate as with your previous light setup? Keep up your hard work, this is a great experiment!

[liveforphysics]

Too soon to know. They all look healthy and growing, but I'm not going to make any claims of growth or success after only a few weeks. Have I noticed growth? Yes, if you look carefully, you can often spot minor SPS growth on a daily basis, and I am still seeing this. It's much too soon to judge if it is better or worse that my previous growth.

I can tell you what isn't growing though Anything on my glass I put this setup up, then cleaned my glass. It's been a couple weeks now, and my glass still looks like the day I cleaned it

[dogstar74]

LFP,

I love to see this type of work and innovation.

I too would like to know the brand of the bulbs you are using. I've read this thread, and the attached webpage and find it very well documented and written.

Could you please attach a name to the bulbs that you have tested and also a possible source to purchase said bulbs. If you can't recommend a source, then google is sure to come up with my own sources.

[cward]

Originally posted by Paul_PSU
Luke,
Bravo! Your endeavors are always fascinating to follow (loved your tank thread). It is refreshing to see people like yourself that are in the community and continually doing so much to try to advance it. Keep up the great work.

Paul

I agree!!! It's nice to see people thinking outside the box, and then sharing the information with us. I'm looking forward to seeing your long term results.


Chris