starphire tank crack . stop laminated glass crack HELP - Page 3

Chicago · 01/15/2010, 09:48 PM

Chicago · 01/15/2010, 09:49 PM

Chicago · 01/15/2010, 09:50 PM

through the back of the tank glass and water.. can see front wood trim work that covers the other part of the crack or whatever from the front view..

Chicago · 01/15/2010, 09:51 PM

WHAT I WILL HAVE TO DESTROY AND REBUILD OR JUST FORGET THE HOBBY ALL TOGETHER AFTER 30 YEARS.

BeanAnimal · 01/15/2010, 11:33 PM

Not to make you feel worse... but it would have been a good idea to make the entire trim piece removable.

http://beananimal.com/gallery/75-gal...d-gallery.aspx

Chicago · 01/16/2010, 07:52 AM

i do construction so that is no big deal.. repalce and moving a tank this size is the issue.. ... beside the pannel for access above were key for me.. your tank looks great..

ycrazyy · 01/16/2010, 10:07 AM

Ideas besides replacement? I think they are going to be few and far between. Unless you are going to be prepared (just in case, not saying it's going to happen) to have a lot of water on your floor. I would say possibly laminate another piece of glass to the front, but I don't think it will help in the long run. If the crack continues to grow, eventually going through the entire piece, there is a chance that the pressure will create a crack in one of the other panes (current piece laminated or new piece). Glass is fickle, cracks in certain areas can leave the glass very strong while a mm or two in one direction or the other and it can be catastrophic.

Chicago · 01/16/2010, 10:35 AM

yep... i hear you loud and clear,, thankjs.. if the tank view section is 92 long. what would be the min thinkness for a tank front viewing pannel. 3/4? now the other thought i think looking at the bracing of the center more carefully i wonder if the center brace which is attached to the front has a min a very min of play in it...then again maybe just my imagination.. maybe the center brace is not adhering to the front pannel as strong as it was before ..

mypepper · 01/16/2010, 10:53 AM

This is a definite crack in your front panel and I would take the tank down as soon as possible.

Over five years ago, I had a All Glass 125 gallon that developed a hair line crack at the bottom of the sand line. Since I rent, I did not have the option to wait a see if the fracture would increase or not, so I tore down the tank within a few hours and place most of my live rock and corals into my emergency 50 gallon backup. Of course, all did not fit in, so the rest of the live stock and water, went in rubber maid garbage trash cans, new of course.

I would love to have another glass tank, but with the possibility of the front of the tank blowing out, it's acrylic for me know.

All I have to worry about know, is crazing from aging acrylic. If it's one thing, it's another in this hobby.

I truly feel for you and I would not give up on this extraordinary hobby.

Even though it seems overwhelming right now, hang in there and things will work out for you,

Randy

Chicago · 01/16/2010, 02:39 PM

yep... i hear you loud and clear,, thankjs.. if the tank view section is 92 long. what would be the min thinkness for a tank front viewing pannel. 3/4? now the other thought i think looking at the bracing of the center more carefully i wonder if the center brace which is attached to the front has a min a very min of play in it...then again maybe just my imagination.. maybe the center brace is not adhering to the front pannel as strong as it was before ..

hoffy02 · 01/16/2010, 03:05 PM

as you said... the defect is visually not going to the front or the back... I just dont see how a crack goes half way through a pane??? is there a center, third pane?

Chicago · 01/16/2010, 06:01 PM

that is what i am trying to figure out.. there is absolutly no feel of crack on inside or out.. and not.. no inside pane.. just two panes. 1/2 inch or 5/8 thick each piece.. i have yet to hear from anyone glass guy about that question of crack only half way through..

NanoReefWanabe · 01/16/2010, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago

that is what i am trying to figure out.. there is absolutly no feel of crack on inside or out.. and not.. no inside pane.. just two panes. 1/2 inch or 5/8 thick each piece.. i have yet to hear from anyone glass guy about that question of crack only half way through..

1/2" or 5/8 is thick glass and i am pretty sure the crack doesnt have to go right through it right away...

look at it this way...when you try to cut a piece of glass this thick with "score and snap" it is very difficult, however if you use the back end of the cutter to tap the glass you can ease the cut (crack) through the glass along the score mark...you can do this the entire length of the cut, and the cutoff piece will still stay in place, until you give it the final little snap...

much like i think the front of your tank is doing...the crack is easing its way though the glass...

Chicago · 01/17/2010, 11:14 PM

yep..easing its way through.. can a windsheild repair fix this.. i mean if the crack stopped structurally it would be strong enough. when they do the repair they drill a hole pin size ahead of or at end of the crack. then fill it all with resin...so do i try this.. what is the negative.. tank explosion from pin hole drill?..think i will do video .. could you see that on youtube.. ok..not funny.

BeanAnimal · 01/18/2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoffy02

as you said... the defect is visually not going to the front or the back... I just dont see how a crack goes half way through a pane??? is there a center, third pane?

It goes the entire way though. The laminate is holding the panels together, so there is no displacement to feel the crack. You may be able to feel it with a very sharp razor blade, but even then maybe not

BeanAnimal · 01/18/2010, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago

yep..easing its way through.. can a windsheild repair fix this.. i mean if the crack stopped structurally it would be strong enough. when they do the repair they drill a hole pin size ahead of or at end of the crack. then fill it all with resin...so do i try this.. what is the negative.. tank explosion from pin hole drill?..think i will do video .. could you see that on youtube.. ok..not funny.

That depends on the reason for the crack. If the area is under the same stress that caused the crack then the hole and resin will not likely do any good. If on the other hand the crack was ALWAYS there and has crept downward due to normal thermal cycling and vibration, then the hole and resin could stop it from progressing.

Pretty big gamble.

hebygb · 01/18/2010, 08:45 AM

This is really an unfortunate situation for you Chicago... such a beautiful tank... but I think you know that the tank needs to be replaced. I would hate to do it too... even on a nano... but as sad as it is, the reality of a catastrophe would be unimaginable.

Try and put a positive spin on it. You have all but the tank.

Once the new tank arrives you would be up and running in 24 hours... You can even have it pre drilled for your current plumbing configuration... Corals will grow back... fish will be fine in Brutes... One weekend... wet to wet. The hardest part here is making and storing all the extra water.

Murphs205 · 01/18/2010, 08:45 AM

man ,,,thats a scary one.... dont go on vacation or change your last name to Murphy !!! that would be so on my mind even when im sleeping . i would switch to a new tank. not only for the peace of mind but to secure the future of all fish, corals, clean up crew, your water ... that is sooooooooooooo much to loose for the sake of pushin it with that tank. i would rather save everything else.....

ycrazyy · 01/18/2010, 10:14 AM

Chicago, BeanAnimal is right that the crack can be only half way through the glass, but most likely (and from the pics) it looks like it is cracked all the way through one pane. I said it before, the laminate holds the glass together and with laminated glass it can be very very difficult to feel a crack.

If you want to try the pin hole / resin method go for it, however I would not recommend doing it with a full tank anyway as drilling the glass is just going to weaken it more than it already is and you are taking a big risk.

As for the thickness of the new panel, what is the size of the tank? Rimmed / rimless?

Chicago · 01/18/2010, 01:18 PM

tank is rimmed.. 92 x 31 x 31... two side overflows add total length to 112 long.. with rim tank is 36 high and 36 deep.. so total outside dimension..is 112 x 36 x 36.

can we remove the front glass and replace?

Chicago · 01/18/2010, 01:18 PM

get rid of fish and buy lots of frogs???

hebygb · 01/18/2010, 01:34 PM

LOL!!! Seriously... then you wil have crickets and meal worms stinking up and crawling all over the place. It may look bleak, but seriously, its just the tank. Probably the least expensive part of the hobby.

Chicago · 01/18/2010, 01:36 PM

yep... now do i replace the front pane glass on site. slege hammer to it and replace with acrylic.. who does acrylic..

coralnut99 · 01/18/2010, 01:37 PM

At least you're keeping a sense of humor through this!

Thats a huge part of the battle.

If this were my tank, and from the look of it, I REALLY wish it were, I'd be making plans to either replace the tank, or the front panel. Given that this is a built-in, I know how much more diffcult either one is.

There's just one thing that would make me squeamish about drilling the pin holes. For this application, the holes would have to be absolutely flat-rimmed on both sides. If the drill creates a small chip anywhere along it's route, that creates the equivelant of a fracture that can cause a catastrophic failure, under pressure. Think of it as creating a small chip at the edge of a pane of glass, and then flexing it. Windshileds and fistanks don't have the same pressure dynamics.

I've never dealt with glass that thick, so I'm guessing it was laminated because 3/4" is next to impossible to find; or is this how 3/4" glass is made? If you had the tank custon made, there should be a shop available that can create a panel fo the size you need. The bad side is, even if you found a place, I can't imagine you'll get a quick turnaround time unless they sold the glass to build it in the first place.

I REALLY wish you the best of luck here.

hebygb · 01/18/2010, 01:53 PM

All of my tanks are acrylic... James (Acrylics) may have a contact. Also ZeroEdge is located in Rolling Meadows... Swift Rd and Gary ( I think)... While I know you are not looking for a ZE tank, they deal in very thick material all the time. and it is very high quality. If they cant help... they may have some contacts. I believe they actually manufacture in MI.

My guess is you are looking at something at least 1" thick.

01/15/2010, 09:48 PM	#51
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	__________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/15/2010, 09:49 PM	#52
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	__________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/15/2010, 09:50 PM	#53
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	through the back of the tank glass and water.. can see front wood trim work that covers the other part of the crack or whatever from the front view.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/15/2010, 09:51 PM	#54
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	WHAT I WILL HAVE TO DESTROY AND REBUILD OR JUST FORGET THE HOBBY ALL TOGETHER AFTER 30 YEARS. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/16/2010, 07:52 AM	#56
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	i do construction so that is no big deal.. repalce and moving a tank this size is the issue.. ... beside the pannel for access above were key for me.. your tank looks great.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/15/2010, 11:33 PM	#55
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Not to make you feel worse... but it would have been a good idea to make the entire trim piece removable. http://beananimal.com/gallery/75-gal...d-gallery.aspx

01/16/2010, 10:07 AM	#57
ycrazyy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York Posts: 327	Ideas besides replacement? I think they are going to be few and far between. Unless you are going to be prepared (just in case, not saying it's going to happen) to have a lot of water on your floor. I would say possibly laminate another piece of glass to the front, but I don't think it will help in the long run. If the crack continues to grow, eventually going through the entire piece, there is a chance that the pressure will create a crack in one of the other panes (current piece laminated or new piece). Glass is fickle, cracks in certain areas can leave the glass very strong while a mm or two in one direction or the other and it can be catastrophic.

01/16/2010, 10:35 AM	#58
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	yep... i hear you loud and clear,, thankjs.. if the tank view section is 92 long. what would be the min thinkness for a tank front viewing pannel. 3/4? now the other thought i think looking at the bracing of the center more carefully i wonder if the center brace which is attached to the front has a min a very min of play in it...then again maybe just my imagination.. maybe the center brace is not adhering to the front pannel as strong as it was before .. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/16/2010, 10:53 AM	#59
mypepper Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: San Mateo, Ca Posts: 422	This is a definite crack in your front panel and I would take the tank down as soon as possible. Over five years ago, I had a All Glass 125 gallon that developed a hair line crack at the bottom of the sand line. Since I rent, I did not have the option to wait a see if the fracture would increase or not, so I tore down the tank within a few hours and place most of my live rock and corals into my emergency 50 gallon backup. Of course, all did not fit in, so the rest of the live stock and water, went in rubber maid garbage trash cans, new of course. I would love to have another glass tank, but with the possibility of the front of the tank blowing out, it's acrylic for me know. All I have to worry about know, is crazing from aging acrylic. If it's one thing, it's another in this hobby. I truly feel for you and I would not give up on this extraordinary hobby. Even though it seems overwhelming right now, hang in there and things will work out for you, Randy

01/16/2010, 02:39 PM	#60
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	yep... i hear you loud and clear,, thankjs.. if the tank view section is 92 long. what would be the min thinkness for a tank front viewing pannel. 3/4? now the other thought i think looking at the bracing of the center more carefully i wonder if the center brace which is attached to the front has a min a very min of play in it...then again maybe just my imagination.. maybe the center brace is not adhering to the front pannel as strong as it was before .. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/16/2010, 03:05 PM	#61
hoffy02 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Crosby, TX. Posts: 399	as you said... the defect is visually not going to the front or the back... I just dont see how a crack goes half way through a pane??? is there a center, third pane?

01/16/2010, 06:01 PM	#62
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	that is what i am trying to figure out.. there is absolutly no feel of crack on inside or out.. and not.. no inside pane.. just two panes. 1/2 inch or 5/8 thick each piece.. i have yet to hear from anyone glass guy about that question of crack only half way through.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/17/2010, 11:14 PM	#64
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	yep..easing its way through.. can a windsheild repair fix this.. i mean if the crack stopped structurally it would be strong enough. when they do the repair they drill a hole pin size ahead of or at end of the crack. then fill it all with resin...so do i try this.. what is the negative.. tank explosion from pin hole drill?..think i will do video .. could you see that on youtube.. ok..not funny. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/18/2010, 08:45 AM	#67
hebygb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Elmhurst, IL Posts: 2,207	This is really an unfortunate situation for you Chicago... such a beautiful tank... but I think you know that the tank needs to be replaced. I would hate to do it too... even on a nano... but as sad as it is, the reality of a catastrophe would be unimaginable. Try and put a positive spin on it. You have all but the tank. Once the new tank arrives you would be up and running in 24 hours... You can even have it pre drilled for your current plumbing configuration... Corals will grow back... fish will be fine in Brutes... One weekend... wet to wet. The hardest part here is making and storing all the extra water.

01/18/2010, 08:45 AM	#68
Murphs205 gotta love saltwater..... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Elyria ,Ohio Posts: 1,959	man ,,,thats a scary one.... dont go on vacation or change your last name to Murphy !!! that would be so on my mind even when im sleeping . i would switch to a new tank. not only for the peace of mind but to secure the future of all fish, corals, clean up crew, your water ... that is sooooooooooooo much to loose for the sake of pushin it with that tank. i would rather save everything else.....

01/18/2010, 10:14 AM	#69
ycrazyy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York Posts: 327	Chicago, BeanAnimal is right that the crack can be only half way through the glass, but most likely (and from the pics) it looks like it is cracked all the way through one pane. I said it before, the laminate holds the glass together and with laminated glass it can be very very difficult to feel a crack. If you want to try the pin hole / resin method go for it, however I would not recommend doing it with a full tank anyway as drilling the glass is just going to weaken it more than it already is and you are taking a big risk. As for the thickness of the new panel, what is the size of the tank? Rimmed / rimless?

01/18/2010, 01:18 PM	#70
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	tank is rimmed.. 92 x 31 x 31... two side overflows add total length to 112 long.. with rim tank is 36 high and 36 deep.. so total outside dimension..is 112 x 36 x 36. can we remove the front glass and replace? __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/18/2010, 01:34 PM	#72
hebygb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Elmhurst, IL Posts: 2,207	LOL!!! Seriously... then you wil have crickets and meal worms stinking up and crawling all over the place. It may look bleak, but seriously, its just the tank. Probably the least expensive part of the hobby.

01/18/2010, 01:36 PM	#73
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	yep... now do i replace the front pane glass on site. slege hammer to it and replace with acrylic.. who does acrylic.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/18/2010, 01:37 PM	#74
coralnut99 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bushkill, PA Posts: 3,632	At least you're keeping a sense of humor through this! Thats a huge part of the battle. If this were my tank, and from the look of it, I REALLY wish it were, I'd be making plans to either replace the tank, or the front panel. Given that this is a built-in, I know how much more diffcult either one is. There's just one thing that would make me squeamish about drilling the pin holes. For this application, the holes would have to be absolutely flat-rimmed on both sides. If the drill creates a small chip anywhere along it's route, that creates the equivelant of a fracture that can cause a catastrophic failure, under pressure. Think of it as creating a small chip at the edge of a pane of glass, and then flexing it. Windshileds and fistanks don't have the same pressure dynamics. I've never dealt with glass that thick, so I'm guessing it was laminated because 3/4" is next to impossible to find; or is this how 3/4" glass is made? If you had the tank custon made, there should be a shop available that can create a panel fo the size you need. The bad side is, even if you found a place, I can't imagine you'll get a quick turnaround time unless they sold the glass to build it in the first place. I REALLY wish you the best of luck here. __________________ Why can't my wife see this stuff as an investment? Current Tank Info: way too much to list, and still adding more!

01/18/2010, 01:53 PM	#75
hebygb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Elmhurst, IL Posts: 2,207	All of my tanks are acrylic... James (Acrylics) may have a contact. Also ZeroEdge is located in Rolling Meadows... Swift Rd and Gary ( I think)... While I know you are not looking for a ZE tank, they deal in very thick material all the time. and it is very high quality. If they cant help... they may have some contacts. I believe they actually manufacture in MI. My guess is you are looking at something at least 1" thick.