AquaIllumination PAR Measurements

[James000]

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

I am planning on taking PAR measurements with only 1 AI unit running, although the close-in numbers will be about the same. There is very little (if any) bleed over from the other AI unit at 6" and 12"

The coverage area simply depends on the height they are mounted. When I first got my AIs, the hanging kit was not yet available. With them resting on the tank, just a few inches above the water, even with 2 units, there were shadow areas on a 24" tank. This was exacerbated by the fact my DT is relatively shallow (DSB at 15") AND the 2000+ PAR generated by the AIs was cooking everything in the very top of the tank.

To be fair, the shadows were just as bad with the G2. The Maxspect rails sit even lower. On my shallow frag tank, most of the corners and edges were dark when using the G2 rails mounting on top of the tank. I currently have them raised 7" above and it provides nice illumination throughout, although there is still light spillage on the walls.

If these tanks were deeper, the coverage challenges would not have been as bad.

The AI's optics allow you to raise the lights, increase the spread and still maintain big PAR numbers. There's a great DIY LED build by Santoki on RC showing very similar lights (24 Crees/40 degree optics) mounted to a ceiling 4'+ above his tank that is beautiful and includes very impressive PAR readings.

^^This is what I am curious about. There is obviously no doubt that there is more than enough PAR from the AI unit, even AFTER being tuned down in power and raised higher off the water. I would be very curious to see tests on how much the spread changes as distance from the tank increases.

This also can be used in the cost debate. AI recommends 2 modules for a 24" length area; but could you get 1 module high enough to adequately cover that same area? What is AI's recommended mounting/hanging height?

For my own purpose, I will be lighting a 48"x24" area and only 18" depth, maybe 25% SPS corals. I would love to think I could settle on the 36" 3 module setup and raise that thing 3 to 4 feet off the tank (I think this would look cooler aesthetically anyway). So i'm wondering how the spread reacts when being raised to these heights. And it sounds like I could still easily throw out more than enough PAR even after 36" of air + maybe 8" of water (distance between module + SPS).

By the way, the thunderstorm/cloudy day/etc simulation is only accomplished by a non-AI controller. I've been watching a RC member's videos of his AI unit and the Profilux controller. I want it bad. Personally I think it is invaluable to have your tank always looking different ("cloudy", "stormy", sunrise/sunset). Not only do you get to see the unique responses of your livestock but it also removes the chance of your tank becoming the "Same old, same old" as you'll always be excited and wondering what it will look like from day to day/hour to hour.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by James000

For my own purpose, I will be lighting a 48"x24" area and only 18" depth, maybe 25% SPS corals. I would love to think I could settle on the 36" 3 module setup and raise that thing 3 to 4 feet off the tank (I think this would look cooler aesthetically anyway). So i'm wondering how the spread reacts when being raised to these heights. And it sounds like I could still easily throw out more than enough PAR even after 36" of air + maybe 8" of water (distance between module + SPS).

I would think 3 units over a 48X18 tank would be more than enough with PAR to spare as long as you can hang them higher (I also like the look.) Just use the 48" rails and order 3 units so you can move them freely about as you fine tune - and if for some reason you felt you needed a 4th AI - you'd already have the space for it.

I believe the AquaIllumination coverage recommendations of 1 unit per foot are based on hood or top of glass mounting. If you have the ability to raise the lights, it unlocks lots of additional options and opportunities with acceptable loss of PAR.

Look at Santoki's DIY LED thread, It's an excellent example of 3 AI-like LEDS hung high above a 4' tank that looks spectacular and cranks out tons of focused PAR over a great distance.

I will take me some time, but I intend to take PAR measurements at varying heights (I'll try and do up to 4') and show the light coverage areas. This should be helpful in determining the number of units and elevation required to provide the coverage and PAR needed for a specific tank.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by James000

By the way, the thunderstorm/cloudy day/etc simulation is only accomplished by a non-AI controller. I've been watching a RC member's videos of his AI unit and the Profilux controller. I want it bad.

FWIW - Neptune is preparing to release a module for the Apex that provides this (and more) functionality for the AquaIllumination LEDS The AI controller is excellent and although I doubt I'll take advantage of the thunderstorms (Unless Riders on the Storm by the Doors is playing in the background) - having lighting control accessible through my Apex from anywhere will be nice.

[Garage1217]

AI offers other optics correct? Maybe going to 60 or 80 degree optics will provide better coverage in his situation of wanting to run 3 units?

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by Garage1217

AI offers other optics correct? Maybe going to 60 or 80 degree optics will provide better coverage in his situation of wanting to run 3 units?

I've read that AI is producing tri-color LED pucks that include both blue and XP series royal blue LEDs, but I'm not sure about the availability of different optics.

[James000]

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

FWIW - Neptune is preparing to release a module for the Apex that provides this (and more) functionality for the AquaIllumination LEDS The AI controller is excellent and although I doubt I'll take advantage of the thunderstorms (Unless Riders on the Storm by the Doors is playing in the background) - having lighting control accessible through my Apex from anywhere will be nice.

Oh man, I am pumped. I love the tech stuff; and the ability to access it from anywhere is definitely some sweet, sweet icing.

Thanks for the comments on the 3 module setup. That's a good idea to use the 48" bracket and then be able to slide the modules around as necessary.

Originally Posted by Garage1217

AI offers other optics correct? Maybe going to 60 or 80 degree optics will provide better coverage in his situation of wanting to run 3 units?

This would be nice. My tank is going to be rimless so I still kind of like the idea of just raising the units higher. However, I guess at some point you have to be careful not to go too high or else you end up having to wear sunglasses before approaching your tank because you'll be looking at the bottom side of those modules! I bet a good mix of height and different optics (when available) would be best.

[jcolletteiii]

Originally Posted by Garage1217

AI offers other optics correct? Maybe going to 60 or 80 degree optics will provide better coverage in his situation of wanting to run 3 units?

I've heard about the Neptune/AI controller unit - looking forward to this one myself, and that the LED pucks are a cinch to replace, and that AI is working on diff LED options, but I have not heard about different optics yet. Would be interesting to see for sure.

[Rickyrooz1]

nice info

[reefsafe]

I was able to replace full lumenarc 250 watt halides with 2 modules each (had three lumenarcs and now have 6 AI modules).

love them. Won't go back to halides again!

[CalmSeasQuest]

In another thread I was asked if I thought one AI unit be sufficient for a CAD 39G tank (24X20X20) as there has been much published about the power output of newer Crees, stories of coral bleaching and multiple units at lower power settings.

Yes, I think it might. Simply hang the light turned 90 degrees (so the long end runs parallel to the tank) and raise it to 18"-24" (I'm planning on doing exactly this so I can gather PAR and coverage data for this thread.)

The AIs are so powerful that on tanks up to 24" wide with substrate at 24" or less, I believe one would easily outperform anything else in the space at comparable prices.

The only downsides I see would be the less-blue output at higher power settings. This is presently being solved by AI as they are releasing new pucks that contain a white, blue and Royal blue LED that will produce a far bluer result at higher PAR settings. Also, the connections would be partially veiwable on one end of the AI unit, although I'm sure a easy DIY method of hiding the wires could be developed.

[Rick's Reef]

Any recommendations on how many AI modules I would need for a 120g corner tank that is 36x36x30? That is 36" each on the wall sides and 30" deep. This is all with the lights mounted about 2" above the top acrylic sheet in a hood.

My original thought was 3 modules, but now I am wondering if I would require 4 to get adequate light coverage.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by Rick's Reef

Any recommendations on how many AI modules I would need for a 120g corner tank that is 36x36x30? That is 36" each on the wall sides and 30" deep. This is all with the lights mounted about 2" above the top acrylic sheet in a hood.

My original thought was 3 modules, but now I am wondering if I would require 4 to get adequate light coverage.

Thats a tough shape when mounting so close to the tank - If you were to raise them - I think 3 would be fine. With them mounted so close needing covering 36X36, I'm not sure. Call Gregg at ReefGeek - He can probably give you a better answer.

[bqwertpl]

oh my... what to do now ? AI or Maxspect.. ? I have Oceanic Illuminata 57g. 36" long.. Right now I am using Sunpod 2 x 150W MH.. I really want go LED. My tank is barebottom and have a black egg crate holding my rock.. so it is about 2" from bottom.. Mixed corals..

I was thinking about Maxspect.. but have it shipped from China would be about $350 less than AI..Also, if I would go AI, I think I would go with 24" and hang it higher to cover more tank for lower price.. Really do not have needs to have the light on the entire length of tank.

I just think, if I am going to spend so much money then I want make sure I am getting fairly good product and it is worth the price.

Maxspect would cover more.. since it would be 30" long... but I am not sure how to order Cree leds with it.. ? Tried to contact one of the stores in China and got some broken English explanation so.. still do not know how to do it and how much more it cost..

Also with the AI fixtures.. I saw that on AI website, they offering now some upgrade for generation 1 lights.. so if I decide to go with AI, am I going to get the latest version of these lights? or do I have to spend more for upgrades?

[cvd55]

You will get the latest version of the AI lights the upgrade is for gen 1 lights to be up to par with the new lights and when there is another upgrade you will have the option to upgrade the gen 2 lights to whatever they come out with next.
As far as the maxspect or AI lights.
I would go AI so if something ever happened to the light you dont have to spend money shipping it back to China to get fixed, As far as upgrading the Max lights to Cree led's
I dont think you would save very much at all versus the price of AI lights

[bqwertpl]

Originally Posted by cvd55

You will get the latest version of the AI lights the upgrade is for gen 1 lights to be up to par with the new lights and when there is another upgrade you will have the option to upgrade the gen 2 lights to whatever they come out with next.
As far as the maxspect or AI lights.
I would go AI so if something ever happened to the light you dont have to spend money shipping it back to China to get fixed, As far as upgrading the Max lights to Cree led's
I dont think you would save very much at all versus the price of AI lights

do You think that on 36" long tank.. 24" AI would work just fine? I thought hanging it higher so it would have better coverage.. of course I would like to avoid have it blinding me, if it is to high.

I forgot to ask the most important.. is it come with hanging kit or do I have to purchase it separately ?

[cvd55]

You might get some dark corners but they would have to be at least 2 feet up but AI's have optics so there isn't as much light spilling over to blind you
Theres a link on this page 2nd post where Santoki did 3 homemade units with optics if you want to get a light spread idea

[cvd55]

Im not sure if the hanging kits come with them or not im still saving the cash for my 3 units to hang over my 48"x24" rimless,but i do know when I do get them ill get the 48" hanging kit so I can space the lights to where I need them or add 1 more if I dont like the look.
So if you do get them get the 36" hanging kit so you can space the lights to where you need them and you would have the space to add another later on if you dont like the look

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by cvd55

Im not sure if the hanging kits come with them or not im still saving the cash for my 3 units to hang over my 48"x24" rimless,but i do know when I do get them ill get the 48" hanging kit so I can space the lights to where I need them or add 1 more if I dont like the look.
So if you do get them get the 36" hanging kit so you can space the lights to where you need them and you would have the space to add another later on if you dont like the look

The hanging kit does not come with the AIs. It's custom made for the AI by GripLocks and is the nicest hanging kit I've ever seen. I paid $34.95.

As for concerns regarding the light being blinding if hung higher - It's not. The optics do a great job of putting the light where you want it. I currently have mine hung 12" above, but have that them as high as 18" with no annoyance from light spill. Conversely, My Maxspect are only 7" above the water and the light spill is bothersome due to the lack of optics.

I agree with the above - For a 36" tank you could try starting with 2 units, but use 36" rails so that if later you chose to add a third unit, it would mean simply sliding another one on. You'll have more than enough PAR - it's just an issue of adjusting the height to get the desired coverage.

I'm very much looking forward to AIs new Tri-Color pucks (1 white, 1 blue and 1 Royal blue) I think they will be a Home Run in terms of perfect color and PAR delivery.

[bqwertpl]

You guys rock Thank YOU ALL! time to start looking around.. if anyone has idea whats the best place to purchase these lights with hanging kit.. PLEASE PM me with information (dont want get in troubles with mods). I looked online, and there are few places.. just want make sure, I am spending money in the right one.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by bqwertpl

oh my... what to do now ? AI or Maxspect.. ? ?

Choosing between these two platforms is tough as they represent very different approaches to LED lighting. Here are my observations on the pluses/minus directly comparing the AIs and G2...

AquaIllumination

Pros
+ Cree Powered - MASSIVE PAR availability with 10+ year bulb life.
+ Very good ramping controller - Sunrise/sunsets, mid-day PAR increases, vary blue and white output individually in 1% increments, full Lunar cycles with intensity.
+ Blue instead of Royal Blue - Provides "crisp" blue rather than the purple/violet appearance of the SemiLED Royal blues (subjective.)
+ 40 Degree Optics - Allows you to adjust coverage, appearance and PAR by changing the height with little or no light spillage.
+ US Made with phenomenal support.
+ Controller Interface - Profilux (and about to be released Neptune Apex) controller interface provides controller integration enabling advanced options such as clouds, thunderstorms...

Cons
- Initial acquisition costs.
- Tight optics limit coverage if placed in a hood or mounted just above a tank.
- At higher output levels (>80% whites) the color is less blue than some prefer.
- At the time this was written, there is a waiting list for purchase.

G2

Pros
+ Inexpensive (especially in relation to the AIs')
+ No optics provide a greater coverage area if surface mounted
+ User replaceable SimiLEDS allow you to interchange individual white/blue/ violet LEDS to create custom color combinations.
+ Royal blues provide more "pop" when on by themselves (subjective.)
+ Built-in timer provides 3 channels of on/off scheduling for blue/violets, 3w whites and 30w whites.
+ Built in moonlight LEDS (on/off only - turn on when main LEDS turn off.)

Cons
- Lack of optics limits elevation options (much light spillage.)
- Less PAR than Crees powered lights (but still much more than MH/T5.)
- Color of SemiLED Royal blues has an overt purple/violet cast. This is especially noticeable when only the blues are on (subjective.)
- Rail kit blocks light from being evenly distributed
- 30W whites are much less blue than purported by the Mfg.
- No controller integration currently available or reported to be forthcoming
- Some initial quality concerns - There have been reports of some manufacturing concerns including issues such as DOAs, loose electrical connections in the timer box, LEDS mounted with little/poor thermal protection, bent rails or cooling fins. Although so far, it seems Maxspect has done a very good job of handling support and warranty repair (again subjective and based on RC posts as I have had no warranty issues.)
- Chinese made, no US based support at present. Any warranty or repair requires return shipping to China.

Notes- There was discussion about a Cree upgrade being available for the G2. I've seen contradicting comments regarding this, and have not seen any posts from a Cree based G2 owner. If available (and depending on the upgrade costs) this might be an viable option. Please remember, these are my personal observations based on owning the AIs and G2 and having them installed on side-by-side tanks. Much of this is subjective (especially comments pertaining to color output.) You're mileage will obviously vary

[Wayner2]

Tom:

Thanks for all the work in comparing the two units, very useful.

Now for the million dollar question, my tank 30" long 24"Wide 18" High.

All SPS & Clams - will I get away with 1 AI unit if my corals are positioned well?

I'm not worried about par but I am about coverage.

Thanks in advance

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by Wayner2

Tom:

Thanks for all the work in comparing the two units, very useful.

Now for the million dollar question, my tank 30" long 24"Wide 18" High.

All SPS & Clams - will I get away with 1 AI unit if my corals are positioned well?

I'm not worried about par but I am about coverage.

Thanks in advance

It's possible if you can accept darker ends, but I don't think you'd like the look. You'd have plenty of PAR, but even raised high, a single unit would not provide 30" of coverage. It would be better if you were able to turn the AI 90 degrees, but even then I don't believe it would be a good fit.

2 Units mounted 12"-16" above would rock that tank - With the shallow depth, you could run the AIs at lower output enabling any desired color combination including 20K++ blue.

[neelix]

Anyone having problems keeping LPS? My hammers have been receding ever since I switched to 3 AI modules. Would to much light be the cause? Currently running 3 on a 93 cube whites at 40% blues 100% about 8 inches above the water.
Alk at 9 Cal at 450 mag 1350 and no nitrates or detectable phosphates.

[wesley6610]

Originally Posted by neelix

Anyone having problems keeping LPS? My hammers have been receding ever since I switched to 3 AI modules. Would to much light be the cause? Currently running 3 on a 93 cube whites at 40% blues 100% about 8 inches above the water.
Alk at 9 Cal at 450 mag 1350 and no nitrates or detectable phosphates.

Yeah, I would guess that you have either too much light or not long enough acclimation to LED lighting. Your Alk seems a little low for a Ca of 450 and Mag of 1350, but it wouldn't give you that kind of response. I think that you need to either raise the fixture or lower the intensity of the LEDs and wait to see recovery in your LPS and then slowly ramp up the light about 10% each week until you reach the brightness you want or the corals start to regress. The BEST thing to do is invest in a PAR meter and find out how high you can turn the LEDs up at the given height you have the fixture mounted for the best results of your corals. You may want to put all LPS down further in the tank if they are higher up at this point. Keep just your SPS, if you have some, higher up since they require more light and take those LPS and any softies down lower.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by wesley6610

Yeah, I would guess that you have either too much light or not long enough acclimation to LED lighting. Your Alk seems a little low for a Ca of 450 and Mag of 1350, but it wouldn't give you that kind of response. I think that you need to either raise the fixture or lower the intensity of the LEDs and wait to see recovery in your LPS and then slowly ramp up the light about 10% each week until you reach the brightness you want or the corals start to regress. The BEST thing to do is invest in a PAR meter and find out how high you can turn the LEDs up at the given height you have the fixture mounted for the best results of your corals. You may want to put all LPS down further in the tank if they are higher up at this point. Keep just your SPS, if you have some, higher up since they require more light and take those LPS and any softies down lower.

+1 - I think virtually everyone converting to LEDS initially underestimates the PAR output of the Cree LEDS compared to conventional MH/T5 setups.