150 Rimless Barebottom Diary

[dantdodge]

Looks sick can't wait to see it hanging up over that beautiful tank

[naterealbig]

Originally Posted by dantdodge

Looks sick can't wait to see it hanging up over that beautiful tank

Thanks, I'll keep the thread as up-to-date as I can. Both with my ideas and the process.

[naterealbig]

Well, I had been looking forward to using a Reeflo Snapper as my return pump. After considering the 1.5" double-union ball valve that will go on the pump suction, I had to make a another choice. I would be left with only a 1/2 inch between the back of the pump and the stand which a) would make it a real PITA to remove, and b) (as I was advised) would not allow for sufficient cooling of the pump. Next in line for me was the Water Blaster pumps by Octopus. I will be using the HY-7000 which pumps ~ 1900gph @ 0 ft head pressure. They are quiet, run relatively cool, have a 3 year warranty, and fit.



For my dosing I was planning on using a GEO calcium and kalk reactor for all of my Ca/Mg/Alk dosing. Although I am convinced that the reactors are superior to dosing pumps for supplementation for many reasons, I am more concerned with the amount of time I will spend "dialing" them both in. Additionally, I wanted to dose kalk separately from my ATO, and this would have required an additional solenoid and dosing pump for redundancy. In the effort of designing this setup to consume as little time for maintenance, to minimize amount of equipment, and minimize complication, I decided to go with a dosing pump to supply 3-part supplementation. I am planning on using "DIY" supplements, which hopefully will minimize the cost of dosing.

Here is the dosing pump I'm planning on using. It's a Bubble Magus. These dosing pumps have gotten excellent reviews, and are expandable.



To mount the pumps out of the way of other equipment, I will be using this:



I will also be utilizing the BubbleMagus dosing container. I could use a regular 2 gallon container, but hey, these just look cool.



In order to help adjust the nutrient levels in my aquarium, and to minimize the amount of sump cleaning I will have to do, I will be incorporating the use of filter socks in my setup. I plan on using the filter sock holder below



To control the aquarium I will be utilizing the Neptune Apex.



None of the above equipment has been purchased yet, so feel free to make comments and suggestions. I plan on buying everything that I can locally.

[naterealbig]

Something else I have been contemplating is how I want the actual tank to look. I like sand the best, but for the sake of nutrient control I will be utilizing a bare-bottom. I don't like the idea of starboard, so will be simply painting the bottom of the tank white. However, after seeing a few tanks that had black sand or black starboard, I may go with a black tank bottom, and a black background. It will be unusual, but I think different might actually be a little refreshing. We will see how it goes. To give everyone an idea, here's a picture of (one of the tanks of the current Tank of The Month awardee) that describes the look I will be "shooting" for.



Let me know what you think....

[DgenR8]

This thread has been moved to the current forum

[Neogenocide]

I really like the thought of painting the bottom of the tank black.......I may have to try that on my frag tank.

Scott

[naterealbig]

Originally Posted by Neogenocide

I really like the thought of painting the bottom of the tank black.......I may have to try that on my frag tank.

Scott

I say give it a shot! I think the black will really make the fish and the corals stand out. It will be a different look though, it won't have a glowing white bottom like the tanks that have white starboard or sand, but I think the uniqueness will make it worth it. If you decide to do it, post some pics!

[naterealbig]

There has been some delays in the setup of the system, and I am glad, as it has given me time to think about exactly how I want it set up....and exactly how I will go about doing it. I have gotten things backwards in the past, focusing more on the speed at which I filled the aquarium with life, vice making preparations and adjustments to ensure the health and color of the specimens I planned to keep.

First and Foremost, this system will be run as an ULNS. My goal will be to accomplish this without the aid of bacterial supplementation, and with minimal trace-element supplementation. As I have mentioned several times before, I will be utilizing the bare-bottom method, with no sand what-so-ever in the tank. I will also not be using a refugium. There will be approximately 75-100x turnover in the tank (I know that this number is arbitrary, but it at least gives an idea of the amount) which will be accomplished by 4 x Ecotech Vortech MP40w's attached to the back wall of the tank, and by an Octopus HY7000 return pump. Additionally, I will be running filter socks in the set up, as I believe (despite the little added maintenance) it will help with fine-tuning the amount of nutrients I have in the water column at any given time. It will also minimize the amount of detritus I will have to clean out of my sump during water changes. I plan on having approximately 1200 gph of water through the return which should help facilitate mechanical filtration of any solid particulate not eaten by fish or corals. A Super Reef Octopus XP2000 run externally will also help with this. Finally, siphoning out detritus which has collected on the bottom of the display will be a daily/bi-daily ritual.

I have noticed in a lot of setups (including my own) that often times nutrients are allowed to reach a level at which growth of micro/macro algae and cyanobacteria are accelerated before nutrient reduction is necessary or attempted. To combat this, I will use the following regimen; Before any corals are added to the aquarium, I will add the majority of the fish I will want to keep in the system. This will include a (or pair of) regal angelfish, 6-8 blue/green chromis, 4-5 small anthias (undecided on the species as of yet), a pair of picasso perculas, and perhaps a pair of helfrichi (sp?) fire-fish. Once all are healthy and eating, I will monitor the setup, and adjust feeding/maintenance such that I am satisfied that I can maintain ULN levels. Once this is accomplished (likely several weeks later), I will begin to add corals.

I plan on keeping the calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, and traces elements (the ones that matter any way) at natural seawater levels. In the even I find it necessary to dose bacteria or vodka in order to maintain ultra low nutrient levels, there will be very little adjusting I will have to do in preparation. As far as maintaining color of the corals is concerned, I will also be prepared to dose the following; iodide, amino acids, potassium, and several products in the Brightwell line. Bacterial supplements, if deemed necessary, will be in the form of MicroBacter-7, although I firmly believe that nutrient levels can be maintained without it.

As a side note, another goal of mine will be to have a minimal amount of equipment in or running off of my sump. There will be no reactors, extra pumps, or powerheads if I can help it. I will not be utilizing UV, Ozone, Carbon, or GFO. I have particularly bad experiences with O3.

[naterealbig]

As a side note, I am also still looking for feed back whether I should go with a white or a black bare bottom. Remember, criticism, confirmation, and general discussion on my plans and proposed methods are welcome here. Thanks!

[kgk]

Originally Posted by naterealbig

As a side note, I am also still looking for feed back whether I should go with a white or a black bare bottom. Remember, criticism, confirmation, and general discussion on my plans and proposed methods are welcome here. Thanks!

I'd do black. You have me pondering this as well. Good luck.

[williamjhitchcock]

Love how clean you can keep a BB. My tank has never seen a nitrate or any Phos. I painted back and bottom of my tank blue. I have no algae growth so it stays really clean. I razor blade the whole thing like every 3 months.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/pi...ictureid=25062

[geaux xman]

looking good so far... cant wait to see the tank with water and livestock.

i'll be doing a 180g FOWLR Miracles rimless BB also. Hoping to get the tank by the end of the month.

[naterealbig]

I'd do black. You have me pondering this as well. Good luck.

Thanks for your input. I think the black will really make everything stand out. Thanks!

Love how clean you can keep a BB. My tank has never seen a nitrate or any Phos. I painted back and bottom of my tank blue. I have no algae growth so it stays really clean. I razor blade the whole thing like every 3 months.

Good to hear about the NO3 & PO4. Your tank look great, and will look even better as the corals fill in. I love the rock work and the blue color back and bottom. I myself will plan on scraping the coraline off the bottom and back of the tank once or twice a month. This is an advantage you have by painting the bottom instead of using starboard; it makes it very easy to clean. Keep us updated!

looking good so far... cant wait to see the tank with water and livestock.

i'll be doing a 180g FOWLR Miracles rimless BB also. Hoping to get the tank by the end of the month.

Thank you for the kind words! I know you can't literally see much progress, but by the time the tank has water in it, everything will have been planned out, and there won't be guessing about anything. My rock has been cycling for several weeks already, so at the end of February when the tank is plumbed, it will be only a matter of a couple days before the fish can be added.

Good luck with your tank, I think the mixture of rimless and bare-bottom really look great together. Make sure to post a link to your thread here when you begin. Thanks!

[naterealbig]

Just got this beast in; brand new HY-10000. I had originally opted for the HY7000, but I couldn't pass up this offer. It will be over-kill especially considering the volume of my sump, but it will valved down, and feeding a skimmer. Couple this with it's potential to power any extra equipment I might need and the decision is easy.



My dosing pumps and equipment should be here soon. As a side note, I am considering swapping out my 4x mp40w's for 3x mp60es's.

[naterealbig]

Got some new toys! I will test the dosing unit as soon as I'm caught up with schoolwork. I must admit, I really liked the look of the advertised balling containers with the red end caps from premium aquatics, but for some reason they shipped me a different brand (with different color endcaps. In the big scheme of things, I guess it's not a big deal.



I will use this fan for cooling the tank. I have used this same model before, and I really liked it. It will be kept inside the stand, and will blow across the sump when cooling is needed.

[Ocean Mang]

I found your thread, doing a search for "painted black bottom". I am contemplating this also. I do think it is the way to go for a BB tank. It really makes everything pop! Good luck, any new updates?

[naterealbig]

Funny, I did that exact search when I was looking for ideas. I could only find a few pictures of tanks that had done it right, and it sure does make all of the colors pop! I don't have much for updates. I am still playing around with the plumbing design, and how everything will be mounted and wired under the stand - I want everything to look absolutely pristine. Even when I figure it out, I won't be in my new place until the end of this month. I can't wait!

I will post some pics of equipment that has come in, and if I have time, maybe a sketch of the layout under the stand.

[naterealbig]

Wow I have been away from this hobby for too long. I have never heard of doing a bare bottom tank before. It looks pretty nice though. What are some of the benefits of doing one? I am getting ready to set my tank back up so I'm kind of curious.

Below is "my take" on bare bottom tanks from a previous post in this thread.....

Originally Posted by naterealbig

Schudini,

There are several great threads here on RC which discuss the methodology of substrate-free reef keeping. Unfortunately in most, you will have to navigate around negative (and typically meaningless) posts from members who, for whatever reason, abhor the promotion of this style of reefkeeping.

The following are a few observations that I have made from these threads, from guidlines that TBRC members have been gracious enough to share with me, and from the little experience I have had with it so far:
1) First and foremost, bare bottom is not a magic fix for anything. If your tank looks awful now, it will probably look awful as a barebottom too. Nothing replaces good husbandry.
2) Use a TON of flow. I plan on having somewhere around 100x turnover in my display. The reason for doing so is a) YOU CAN - no sand storms, and b) The goal is to keep the detritus suspended long enough to make it to your overflow and then to you skimmer, which will remove the wastes from your water column, before the detritus/waste/food can settle (and begin rotting).
3) Use a minimal amount of liverock. This helps to facilitate the increased flow, and also limits the amount of space that the detritus has to get caught in.
4) Your skimmer, generally speaking, should be over rated for you size tank. This is to also facilitate waste removal. The skimmer is really the heart of the bare bottom system, as there is no sand bed to help nitrify waste.
5) Feed heavy. Because these systems tend to stay "cleaner" than those with sandbeds, you will have to feed more. The food turns to waste from the fish, which theoretically is food for your corals. Well why don't I just feed less and keep a sand bed, you might ask? Well, the bare bottom tank is really about having control of exactly what enters AND leaves the system.

Browsing through the threads, you will note that not everybody follows these guidelines, and many actually utilize aspects of both bare bottom tanks and tanks with sandbeds. Some add additional supplements, some don't, etc, etc. The hardest thing for me about keeping a bare bottom was grasping the idea that you have to "tweak" you system for desired results. For example, when I removed the sand from my aquarium, most of my corals lost color and became very light over the next few days. The combat this, I had adjust my skimmer (so it pulled out less waste), which in turn controlled the amount of nutrients I had in my water, which in turn helped the corals get their color back. I also had to back down on the photoperiod a bit. I also noticed that my Alkalinity was a little harder to dial in.

Anyways, this should give you a basic idea. Keep a few things in mind before you decide. First and foremost make sure you can deal with the LOOK of a bare bottom tank.....you will find most people simply can't live without the look of sand. Second, read every thread you can find, especially those started by successful long-term barebottomers. Third, remember bare bottom does not equate to less maintenance. In fact some claim that it is more maintenance. Most important of all remember that you will need to do a lot of adjusting to your equipment, dosing regimen, feeding habits, and photoperiod before you tank "dialed in". This can take weeks or even moths. Lastly, there are several barebottomers here in TBRC with gorgeous tanks; so don't hesitate to ask questions!

Here are a few threads I have browsed ( remember lots of info, and more than one way to do things - nothing here is law)

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1190944

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=650985

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=640711

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...ht=bare+bottom

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1805886

[naterealbig]

For formality's sake, here is a link to an idea I had about a redundant return system.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1967297

[naterealbig]

I took a shot of my live rock cooking tank. I have the rock in a 44 gallon Brute trash can, equipped with Maxijets, Korallias, High-Seas, and a 200w heater. To give you an idea of size, the rock sitting on top weighs about 35lbs. I will probably use less than 50% of what I have, but I wanted to have a good selection when I did the final rockwork.

I think I have probably dumped a pound or so of shrimp into the filter sock over the course of a month. I really want the rock to cycle hard, and have an ample amount of bacteria colonizing by the time I get the tank up and running. I keep screwing up the cycle though, as I keep adding more live...er...dead rock to the pile. Here are the results of a nitrate and ammonia test I did (Red Sea brand). Few more weeks.....





Also a quick shot of my Vortechs that came in today. As an after-thought; Will this be enough flow?

[bmullikin1]

W 3 MP60'S you will be lucky to keep the water in the tank, im running just 2 mp40s on my bb 125 and they are only turned up 3/4 on reefcrest or lagoon.

[naterealbig]

Yeah, I know that 3 mp60's are overkill for sure, I just didn't want to deal with falling powerheads with the 3/4" thick glass. I would have gone with only 2, but I was initially planning on placing all 3 of them on the back of the tank. After seeing the ecosmart programs at work, I decided I wanted to set them up as Ecotech recommends; one on each side of the tank, and then one on the back.

I figure at worst, I can dial them all the way down, and they will be fine.....and much quieter than the mp40s.

By the way, your tank looks awesome, and I love the rockwork.

[skh]

Originally Posted by naterealbig

Yeah, I know that 3 mp60's are overkill for sure, I just didn't want to deal with falling powerheads with the 3/4" thick glass. I would have gone with only 2, but I was initially planning on placing all 3 of them on the back of the tank. After seeing the ecosmart programs at work, I decided I wanted to set them up as Ecotech recommends; one on each side of the tank, and then one on the back.

I figure at worst, I can dial them all the way down, and they will be fine.....and much quieter than the mp40s.

By the way, your tank looks awesome, and I love the rockwork.

Holy smokes! That's a ton of flow, although you'll have the luxury of dialing them way down and still enjoy crazy wide flow. I've also heard that the mp60s are less noisy than the mp40s.

[naterealbig]

Yeah, I will dial them down and the flow patterns will be second-to-none. And hey, I'll never have to buy another powerhead again.

[naterealbig]

Quick update. Between school, work, and moving to a new apartment, I have been completely consumed. We still don't have everything unpacked, but as today was the first day in 3 months that I've had to myself I decided to do some work.

In the new apartment the tank will be in front of a window in our living room. I didn't like the idea of having light coming through a window behind the aquarium, so I mulled it over and decided to hang a black curtain in front of the window.



Here is a picture of the light Sfiligoi installed. It doesn't look tough from the pictures, but it took hours of work to get everything measured and drilled. The joists in the ceiling were a particular pain in the rear. I found them using the ol nail test, but it wasn't until I started drilling that I realized that the joists were actually made of metal. I couldn't tell for sure, but I think that they are 2x4 or 2x6 shells. At this point I had to completely scrap my plan to attach the 2x4 that the light will hang from with anchoring bolts. I decided to go with toggle bolts, but then had to buy a drill bit large enough to get the wings through. Long story short, after 1 trip to Lowe's and 3 trips to ACE I finally got the routed, painted 2x4 attached to the ceiling.



After deliberating the idea of the curtain a little bit, I think it will be best without it. There is something about it that looks forced. Like it was put there to hide something. Either way, I think everything will look better without it. Let me know your thoughts on this. Here's a quick snap with the light and stand, and without the curtain.



Next step will be trimming the foam pads for the tank to sit on, and painting the bottom of the aquarium. Black. After this, I can move on to the plumbing! BTW, the foam pads were picked up from BJ's. $17 for 8x2'x2' 1/2" thick sheets.