EchoTech Radion LED salt ingestion?

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by ganjero

There are a ton of fixtures out there, and all the ones that have fans have them on the top. Of course the first fixture with fans on the bottom is going to create this kind of concerns, will they work? only time will tell. You seem smart, so don’t be a fanboy.

I am sure many people told Ecotech that having the motor on the OUTSIDE of the tank was a stupid idea too.

People questioned T5s and they then questioned if they needed to be cooled. They questioned LEDs. They questioned if we even needed skimmers and then questioned why a cone was needed instead.

Eoctech did a very bold move by putting the fan on the bottom. I could see the light in person and totally hate it.

I just don't find an issue with the fan. I live in Utah though and humidity is non-existent here. When I lived on the east coast in Virginia, I hated the humidity. I could definitely see where the humidity was destroying everything. Fortunately, I don't have that problem here so I am not worried about it. So if that makes me a fanboy, so be it.

Viva la Ecotech!

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Description of the JBJ Nano Cube cooling system
"Fan-Cooled "Flip Top" Canopy
The new redesigned canopy offer built-in cooling fans that draw out the heat generated by the lamps before they have time to warm up your water temperature. The unique canopy draws air in through the sides and pushes the warm air through our new ventilated reflector and up through the fans for a cool running cube. It allows you to adjust the positioning of the canopy with our integrated canopy stands that hold up your canopy for routine maintenance. The front of the canopy offers a feeding door that also flips back for quick access."

I'm not particularly familiar with this design, but from the description it sounds that the air is drawn from the outside and then kicked back out again. You mentioned that the area is sealed off, but water gets in there. Well, this situation still doesn't sound quite analogous. Does salt spray from your tank go directly into the intake of your fans?

Also, with the ATI fixture, I believe the fans are placed above the fixture (could be wrong, I have never had this fixture). If this is the case, it is not within the line of fire of direct salt spray.

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by aninjaatemyshoe

I'm not particularly familiar with this design, but from the description it sounds that the air is drawn from the outside and then kicked back out again. You mentioned that the area is sealed off, but water gets in there. Well, this situation still doesn't sound quite analogous. Does salt spray from your tank go directly into the intake of your fans?

Also, with the ATI fixture, I believe the fans are placed above the fixture (could be wrong, I have never had this fixture). If this is the case, it is not within the line of fire of direct salt spray.

Yes, cool air is sucked in from the outside but without the lights being 100% sealed off, I have to imagine that salt spray has been sucked in over time. Enough to ruin anything? I have no idea.

Regarding ATI fans,

Yes they are on the top but if that fixture is in the fish room with the sump, there has to be some salt vapor going on. Maybe I am wrong though. Maybe salt vapor only stays within the area of the tank.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

In my own experience, salt spray doesn't carry too far from a tank, but that depends on a lot of things. However, I have noticed it build up on anything directly above any of the tanks I've had, perhaps within a range of up to 6". In none of these situations was I using a fan to directly draw air from within this area. The vast majority of fan-cooling designs I've seen have the fan on top of the fixture. This design has not been an issue. We now have a new and perhaps innovative design, which may prove to be perfectly great and not an issue at all. However, some of us apparently have the gall to question Ecotech and express concerns with this design. How dare us...

[PowermanKW]

Originally Posted by aninjaatemyshoe

Also, to clarify, the design concern is possibility of buildup of salt within the fixture and how that might affect the cooling of the lights. I understand that the electronic components are shielded and protected. I can also accept the idea that the fan is highly resistant to corrosion. However, that does not mean that salt buildup would not be a problem in other ways. For one, it could provide resistance to airflow if it builds up enough. For another, it would affect the exchange of heat from the metal to the air. Cleaning the inside of this fixture would be a pain, but necessary if salt does actively get into the intake.

Well in that respect, you have just identified the problem in probably 90% of light fixtures in use. The insides are filled with dust, the fan is caked, filters are plugged, and not too many people care about that stuff after they plug in their new shiney light.

Diminished cooling due to lowered air flow, or dirty cooling surfaces effects every light, and this is nothing unique to Ecotech.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

It is a problem with most lights, but what other lights have this particular design? If it is already a nuisance in those lights, which typically have fairly open designs, maybe it would be worse in a design where the airflow is internal and the potential for drawing air with more particulates (salts) is higher.

[ganjero]

Originally Posted by rtparty

I am sure many people told Ecotech that having the motor on the OUTSIDE of the tank was a stupid idea too.

I own vortechs since day 1 and there were tons of concerns, some became true in many cases and some in a few cases. Just FYI.

If you look at the picture posted it seems that the heatsinks are quite small for the amount of LEDs, which makes the fans vital in this fixture so any concerns about the fans are understandable.

[PowermanKW]

Originally Posted by aninjaatemyshoe

It is a problem with most lights, but what other lights have this particular design? If it is already a nuisance in those lights, which typically have fairly open designs, maybe it would be worse in a design where the airflow is internal and the potential for drawing air with more particulates (salts) is higher.

What design is that... one that takes air and passes it through a fixture? Humididty is the same issue with any active cooling fixture. Actual vapor and how much salt is or is not in it and whether this light will have more than others remains to be seen. 6" above the water is a pretty standard distance. There are other lights that discharge outside of the light.. which means they draw air in, usually on a side vent and then discharge it out the top. Those fixtures should be covered in salt as well if it was such a concern....

However... what we do not have a is a well known documented case that there is a ton of salt in vapor above the tank and any fixture that moves air though the fixture will soon be covered in salt. It would be pretty rampant if that was the case which it is not. Just about all fixtures employ active cooling through the fixture. And it will not make any difference if the air is discharged in, or discharged out. And 6" above the tank does not seem to be much of a problem except fish splashing it and I don't see that being a problem more with this light than any other. Nor do I see the frequency that this light needs to be cleaned any higher than any other light.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Who is saying anything about humidity or salt "vapor" (salt is definitely not in vapor form here btw) for that matter? I'm talking about salt spray. Salt spray is not an uncommon experience. Like I said, salt residue gets on surfaces directly above marine tanks. How exactly would you want to have documented evidence of this? Do you want pictures of salt residue on light fixtures?

This fixture design is unique in that it draws air from directly above the tank and pushes it through an internal system. If the fan were positioned above the fixture, salt spray wouldn't likely get to it.

[PowermanKW]

Originally Posted by aninjaatemyshoe

Who is saying anything about humidity or salt "vapor" (salt is definitely not in vapor form here btw) for that matter? I'm talking about salt spray. Salt spray is not an uncommon experience. Like I said, salt residue gets on surfaces directly above marine tanks. How exactly would you want to have documented evidence of this? Do you want pictures of salt residue on light fixtures?

This fixture design is unique in that it draws air from directly above the tank and pushes it through an internal system. If the fan were positioned above the fixture, salt spray wouldn't likely get to it.

No need to be difficult... I'm not talking about salt vapor, I'm talking about salt in water vapor or mist 6" above a tank.

Most glass tops do get covered, but they are also only 2-3" above the water.

Fact is there are plenty of fixtures on the market that are used 6" above a tank. Plenty of fixtures that move air through the fixture above the tank. Plenty of fixtures that do the same thing this one is doing and do not seem to have a huge problem with salt deposits and corrosion.

All it would take is one month to see any problems... this light has been beta tested plenty by different folks I'm sure and if the problems were as real as some seem to think it would have presented itself pretty darn quick and we would not even be having this conversation because Ecotech would have changed it.

[Runfrumu]

Why does it matter? If you don't like the design, buy another fixture. You, the consumer have the right to buy what you like, and they, as the manufacturer, have the right to design a fixture the way they see fit.

I don't understand the need to have a 4 page discussion on something that you cannot change.

[ganjero]

Originally Posted by Runfrumu

Why does it matter? If you don't like the design, buy another fixture. You, the consumer have the right to buy what you like, and they, as the manufacturer, have the right to design a fixture the way they see fit.

I don't understand the need to have a 4 page discussion on something that you cannot change.

The point is to make a better purchasing decision. People are trying to figure out whether this will be an issue or not, since like you said right now it cannot be changed. If it becomes an issue, enough complaints will make it change but right now it's too soon for that (no evidence on either side).

[djk83]

Originally Posted by runfrumu

why does it matter? If you don't like the design, buy another fixture. You, the consumer have the right to buy what you like, and they, as the manufacturer, have the right to design a fixture the way they see fit.

I don't understand the need to have a 4 page discussion on something that you cannot change.

+1

[aninjaatemyshoe]

I don't understand the point in commenting on how tired of this thread you are. Why bother posting comments complaining about this thread/discussion? Seems like you're the one wasting your own time/effort.

[Runfrumu]

Originally Posted by aninjaatemyshoe

I don't understand the point in commenting on how tired of this thread you are. Why bother posting comments complaining about this thread/discussion? Seems like you're the one wasting your own time/effort.

I don't see much of a discussion so much as 1 poster who's obviously made up his mind that he doesn't likes the design, posting a rebuttal to every single post someone's made.

[Eurobeaner]

And the biggest thing.... Ecotech has THE BEST customer service out there. If any problems arise, I would be completely confident that anything would be fixed without question, hell, they might even notify you and send you parts free of charge even if you have no complaints.

So pretty much... This whole thread does not matter. If you drop the whole damn thing in the water, ecotech will help you out. Little spray here and there, whoop d doo

[ganjero]

Originally Posted by Eurobeaner

If you drop the whole damn thing in the water, ecotech will help you out. Little spray here and there, whoop d doo

Help you with a bill of all the repairs, I think you went too far.
BTW "Salt does not evaporate"

[Eurobeaner]

Am I wrong? Lol

[ganjero]

Originally Posted by Eurobeaner

Am I wrong? Lol

Just me being an idiot ...I've seen you posted in 4 different threads that line.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Originally Posted by Runfrumu

I don't see much of a discussion so much as 1 poster who's obviously made up his mind that he doesn't likes the design, posting a rebuttal to every single post someone's made.

I'm sorry, how would you like this discussion to go?

[ganjero]

I think is too premature for this question. Some of us have the concern with the fans and salt but nobody can really answer whether this is a problem or not. Only a few have this light and it has been for a short period of time. Other than fanboys saying Ecotech this or that we cannot get a conclusive answer to this question. We’ll just have to wait or believe the manufacturer and be the early adopters a.k.a. guinea pigs.

BTW I’m not sure about the size of the heatsink either, I would like to get input on that too.

[strittmatter]

Originally Posted by Eurobeaner

Am I wrong? Lol

You are not wrong but salt is still in the air with the moisture. I have pc fans blowing down on my tank and they have salt all over them. Also why did older cars from costal area's rust more then ones in non costal areas, where they dunked in the ocean?

[TucanSam007]

strittmatter I like your thinking, but I think costal areas get more rain in general . I would imagine eco-tech thought this fan placement out thoroughly to avoid future hassles. Really it's just going to be a matter of time to see what kind of abuse us reefers can put on it.

[Eurobeaner]

Originally Posted by ganjero

Help you with a bill of all the repairs, I think you went too far.
BTW "Salt does not evaporate"

Maybe you havt use their support? I know of a few people that have gotten water on the controllers, they contact ecotech, covered in warranty. Out of warranty pump making alot of noise? Ecotech sent replacement parts.

I bought my 4 pumps used and they helped me out on parts. Again, best warranty in the business

[Bellagio]

Originally Posted by SkullV

I have noticed that you have quite a negative view of the Radion LED, most of your comments since joining this site are negative and directed towards Ecotech and their fixture. Can you explain some of your credentials as to why you you are more qualified than the engineers at Ecotech in the design and recommended use of an LED product?

Im not attacking anybody - I think that Radion could be a great lamp with superb feature(like pump controlling)
But I never trust in "dry facts" - a specially when it is proved - "just because".
Thats all.