jynxtrix's Forcibly Propogated Haddoni Anemone - Page 3

Tony B (UK) · 02/18/2012, 09:35 AM

Please do keep this thread updated over the next 24 months.

I have a solid purple haddoni and I would not dare cut it, purely because of the very high mortality rate.

For any one else thinking of cutting haddoni nems up, please look at what others have done before you. Look at their methods - just getting the nem out and slicing it in half has been done loads of times before, with death as the common outcome. If you must slice up your haddoni, try and find a way to do it differently, try and find a way to help recovery. Just doing the same stuff over and over again that often results in death and hoping for life is a recipe for futility.

Cutting carpet nems is such a controversial exercise, but you knew this at the start hence your wording and anti flaming request.

Why did you decide to cut it in half?

Tony

BonsaiNut · 02/18/2012, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elegance coral

That individual would have been me.

Elegance, comparing Calfo to Fautin is a little like comparing a smack-talking, local kid in a playground basketball game to Michael Jordan.

I have a copy of the paper Dr. Fautin presented to the American Philosophical Society back in 1981, and many/most of her papers since. I consider the American Philosophical Society to be the single most prestigious organization in the United States (a private, invitation-only society founded by Benjamin Franklin), and if Daphne Fautin was good enough for them, who am I to disagree

She has been studying and publishing peer-reviewed papers on anemones and clownfish for over 30 years. She certainly doesn't need me to stand up for her reputation - but she has been helpful to me in the past and has pointed me in the right direction a number of times in my studies / pursuits. If I ever accomplish anything of note that might warrant being published in a scientific journal, she would be the first person I would turn to for guidance / mentoring (if she would have me).

I have nothing against Calfo, personally. I have just seen enough to have reached the conclusion that he has no credibility, so I ignore anything that comes from him.

OrionN · 02/19/2012, 12:43 AM

Please keep update. I hope you will be successful, however, like a lot of of posters here, I have yet seen any evidence of any success in fraging S. haddoni. This is not impossible because I have heard of 1 of the daughter anemones survived, which is failure but not total failure, in my opinion. I just hope this is not another failure frag carpet thread.
Goodluck

Dukester · 02/19/2012, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionN

Please keep update. I hope you will be successful, however, like a lot of of posters here, I have yet seen any evidence of any success in fraging S. haddoni. This is not impossible because I have heard of 1 of the daughter anemones survived, which is failure but not total failure, in my opinion. I just hope this is not another failure frag carpet thread.
Goodluck

u must remember the thread a few months back from the guy who is in Australia, he showed pictures of a split blue carpet and stated success with both splits. He was continually put down and beat up by the "high post counters" here until he just left and abandoned his thread.. there were confirmations of his story from others in the area, there were a few pictures also but "without 100's of pictures" "it didnt happen" he must have just took pictures of 2 new smaller blue carpets and made the whole thing up right?

Toddrtrex · 02/19/2012, 08:05 AM

And you must remember that Minh specifically mentioned S. haddoni (( which this thread is about )) and that thread was about S. gigantea, which is not the same type of anemone.

Dukester · 02/19/2012, 08:26 AM

regardless.. that thread got the same bashing as this one. Between you and EC and a few others.. the negativity people recieve on this forum some days is astounding. if you dig around theres more than a few successful split haddoni threads here on RC, and you've taken part in them all i would imagine so how can you say that its not possible?

Heres one for example:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1740727

Toddrtrex · 02/19/2012, 08:36 AM

If you say that asking for long term (( over a year )) proof is bashing, then so be it. In that thread you link the OP, "sold" the anemone after 7 months. So, I still stand by what I said that there isn't any long term proof. As anyone who has kept an S. haddoni knows, it can take a very long time for them to be "off" before they actually die.

All that "we" have asked for is long term proof, sorry that you think that is too much to ask for.

Dukester · 02/19/2012, 08:46 AM

hey, i hate to direct this at you Todd but im pretty sure that 7 months, a totally healed cut, the fact it was eating, etc etc makes it a success. Point being that once someone shows some longer term success.. its still not going to be good enough for some.

BonsaiNut · 02/19/2012, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dukester

u must remember the thread a few months back from the guy who is in Australia, he showed pictures of a split blue carpet and stated success with both splits. He was continually put down and beat up by the "high post counters" here until he just left and abandoned his thread.. there were confirmations of his story from others in the area, there were a few pictures also but "without 100's of pictures" "it didnt happen" he must have just took pictures of 2 new smaller blue carpets and made the whole thing up right?

Dukester, the negativity comes from the fact that the lives of animals are involved and people are doing the same thing, over and over, with low success rates. Plus, many people are loose with the facts... saying one thing and when you press them for details, they back off their original statements.

Even in the thread that you refer to (in which I had no involvement) the poster claims that LTA's have been split successfully. AS FAR AS I AM AWARE there has never been a single case of M. doreensis being cut in half and having either side survive. Loose comments like this will cause someone else to go out and kill anemones - because they don't know any better. How many LTA's will be killed because this one person tossed out a comment on an Internet forum that wasn't based on fact?

Perhaps you remember the guy from Australia claiming that he could cut S. gigantea into six pieces and have all of them survive? This is another species that has NO RECORD of being cut in half and have either piece survive. This poster was very aggressive towards the critics, but he cut his anemone in half... and then disappeared as soon as anyone asked for an update. I don't doubt that he killed his anemone - and his original claim of being able to cut S. gigantea into six pieces is laughable.

The point remains the same. There are two species of clown anemones that reproduce asexually in the wild. These may be "fragged" with some degree of success - but even with these species the success rate is not 100% (though it is in excess of 50% so you typically end up with more anemones than you start with).

Of the sexually-reproducing anemones - only S. haddoni and S. mertensii have any record of being fragged successfully... and the term "success" here has to be used somewhat carefully because in the single success case of S. mertensii, half of the anemone died, and the other half lived, healed up, and then slowly weakened and died shortly afterward. There are many more cases of S. haddoni failure than success - and success often means only one half of the anemone survives and then it is scarred and weak for a year or more later. Compare this to frags of E. quadricolor or H. magnifica (the asexually reproducing anemones) where frags will often be completely healed in two months - to the extent that you can't tell they were ever fragged via appearance or behavior.

Sadly, most people don't care. Instead of considering themselves "the average" they consider themselves the exception to the rule. They say "I know MOST people fail doing this, but I am going to do this and be the one person in 20 who succeeds". I would even feel better (personally) if someone tried to do something DIFFERENT and shared their experience with others. But the extent of most efforts seem to be limited to "anemone + butcher knife".

The negativity of these comments do NOT come from a desire to see anyone fail. Quite the contrary. The negativity comes from watching the same car crash over and over again. Will people ever learn? Do they care?

Tethered_Limbs · 02/19/2012, 09:35 AM

wow, people dont get it...... PREACH EC!!!!!!

elegance coral · 02/19/2012, 09:37 AM

It took Phender's mertensii about a year to die from being cut in half. These are long lived animals that typically do nothing fast. It can take a year or more for an anemone to truly recover from simple shipping stress and bleaching. The fact that one of these cut anemones survives for a few months really tells us nothing.

I honestly do not want to come across as harsh to my fellow hobbyists. I don't have a beef with the people that have been misguided by someone that was simply trying to make a name for himself. It is a very........ (how can I say this?).......... "emotional" subject for some of us. We spend countless hours, tons of money, and plenty of hard work to care for these animals. We nurse them through shipping stress, watch them grow, prosper, and become the majestic creatures they truly are. Then we find some guy that's convincing people to hack them up with a butcher knife. Ya....... We're going to have a problem with that. This is done in the name of propagation, but after years of this practice, and countless dead anemones, we still do not have captively propagated haddonis, gigantea, doreensis...... in our LFS or online stores. All we have to show for it is a whole bunch of dead anemones, and some guy that has pretty much vanished from the hobby. Seems kinda strange to me that he vanished shortly after I went to his forum, called him on his lies, and told him to stop killing sea anemones.

At this point, I honestly don't care if all the stars in the heavens line up, and there's some divine intervention that allows someone, somewhere, to be successful at this. It will not erase the countless deaths that occurred up to that point, and it will not save those that are hacked to pieces after the fact. The body of evidence we have to show that this is nothing remotely close to propagation is simply overwhelming, and can not be denied.

BonsaiNut · 02/19/2012, 09:52 AM

For the record... :

Clown anemones that can be fragged with greater than 50% success rates:
E. quadricolor
H. magnifica

Clown anemones that can be fragged with low success rates (and questionable long term survival):
S. mertensii
S. haddoni

Clown anemones that have no record of ever being fragged successfully:
S. gigantea
C. adhaesivum
M. doreensis
H. crispa
H. malu
H. aurora

elegance coral · 02/19/2012, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonsaiNut

Clown anemones that can be fragged with low success rates (and questionable long term survival):
S. mertensii
S. haddoni

I think the important part here is the "long term survival". I don't consider Phender's mertensii a success, because as he put it, "the anemone was never right" after the cut. Meaning to me, that it never truly healed. He had this anemone for years before the cut. He knew this animal. If he says the anemone isn't right, I have no doubt there was something wrong with it. The fact that it's no longer with us tells the whole story as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure the anemone would still be in Phender's care and doing great, had it never been cut. To me, that equals failure.

When it comes to haddoni, I haven't seen evidence of "success" that goes beyond the photographic evidence that can be found in Phender's thread with his mertensii. We know how that turned out, so based on the "evidence" I've seen, it's kinda hard to state there's been success with haddoni, either.

emdr888 · 02/19/2012, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dukester

hey, i hate to direct this at you Todd but im pretty sure that 7 months, a totally healed cut, the fact it was eating, etc etc makes it a success. Point being that once someone shows some longer term success.. its still not going to be good enough for some.

7 months is nothing really, healthy looking haddoni still have a low survival rate (without being cut) in captivity, lots die in the first few weeks, but many die after 6months and many die after a year or 2 .....

So to see a successful experiment with cutting a healthy haddoni, i would expect to choose a healthy haddoni that has been in captivity for at least 2 years and then for the 2 halves to have survived for 2 years before calling it a success.

jynxtrix · 02/21/2012, 10:34 AM

EC: To put your previous post in context, Grafting fruit trees has just about as much to do with with anemones as cutting dogs in half. Half a dozen of one, could care less about the other.

Dukester: Thank you for noticing the obvious trend here and acknowledging it and at the very least, trying to do something about it. Too bad more people can't seem to do the same. It's a shame it is the way it is. I nearly walked away from this forum completely last week. Today is the first day I've looked at it since last weeks little fiasco and even now, after cooling off, I read back through and wonder if it's even worth posting.

I'm not sure how much I will participate in this thread, seeing as how it is obviously a waste of time. Even if I succeed completely in this endeavor, there are just so many cynics posting here that this thread will likely be a waste of time for any one to try to sift through for any amount of information. The direction this thread is going, I will likely lose interest in reading it and updating it myself soon, so If i disappear for an extended period of time, feel free to PM me for an update.

and finally, ON TOPIC

I decided to tear apart and rebuild my sump/fuge on Saturday and do a little redesign, when my sump pump is off, there is a drastic decrease in current in my tank, so I thought this would be an ideal opportunity to return "fluffy" to the general population since my fish stuff would likely have my undivided attention and I would be able to keep an eye on him the majority of the day.
So, I took him out, set him in the sand, and went about my day. Fluffy crept over and embedded himself in between two pieces of base rock at the bottom of my tank and appears to be very happy. He's back to waving and dancing in the current anyway and hosting one of my mature adult clowns, it actually managed to eat a small piece of silverside last night too, which makes me happy, as spot feeding with mysis shrimp the way I have been doing would be a great deal more difficult now that he's out of the net. On a side note, Fluffy killed one of my clowns on friday (R.I.P. Perky). It was a small juvenile clown that liked to wedge itself between Fluffy and the breeder net wall. From the looks of it Perky got in there and was smothered, as there were no signs of damage, decease or distress.
The larger of the two nems is also doing well, and has finally closed the gap between the two healed edges, things are looking well with the 4 t5ho setup 10k/red/actinic/10k. I'll try to post pictures later, if I don't lose interest after reading whatever assault goes on between this posting and the next time I log on.

Those of you sincerely interested in this, thanks again. Hopefully my progress will be of some value to you.

jynxtrix · 02/21/2012, 10:34 AM

EC: To put your previous post in context, Grafting fruit trees has just about as much to do with with anemones as cutting dogs in half. Half a dozen of one, could care less about the other.

Dukester: Thank you for noticing the obvious trend here and acknowledging it and at the very least, trying to do something about it. Too bad more people can't seem to do the same. It's a shame it is the way it is. I nearly walked away from this forum completely last week. Today is the first day I've looked at it since last weeks little fiasco and even now, after cooling off, I read back through and wonder if it's even worth posting.

I'm not sure how much I will participate in this thread, seeing as how it is obviously a waste of time. Even if I succeed completely in this endeavor, there are just so many cynics posting here that this thread will likely be a waste of time for any one to try to sift through for any amount of information. The direction this thread is going, I will likely lose interest in reading it and updating it myself soon, so If i disappear for an extended period of time, feel free to PM me for an update.

and finally, ON TOPIC

I decided to tear apart and rebuild my sump/fuge on Saturday and do a little redesign, when my sump pump is off, there is a drastic decrease in current in my tank, so I thought this would be an ideal opportunity to return "fluffy" to the general population since my fish stuff would likely have my undivided attention and I would be able to keep an eye on him the majority of the day.
So, I took him out, set him in the sand, and went about my day. Fluffy crept over and embedded himself in between two pieces of base rock at the bottom of my tank and appears to be very happy. He's back to waving and dancing in the current anyway and hosting one of my mature adult clowns, it actually managed to eat a small piece of silverside last night too, which makes me happy, as spot feeding with mysis shrimp the way I have been doing would be a great deal more difficult now that he's out of the net. On a side note, Fluffy killed one of my clowns on friday (R.I.P. Perky). It was a small juvenile clown that liked to wedge itself between Fluffy and the breeder net wall. From the looks of it Perky got in there and was smothered, as there were no signs of damage, decease or distress.
The larger of the two nems is also doing well, and has finally closed the gap between the two healed edges, things are looking well with the 4 t5ho setup 10k/red/actinic/10k. I'll try to post pictures later, if I don't lose interest after reading whatever assault goes on between this posting and the next time I log on.

Those of you sincerely interested in this, thanks again. Hopefully my progress will be of some value to you.

stickleback · 02/21/2012, 11:43 AM

jynxtrix, what are these red tubes your are talking about?

Are they the growlux type tubes which appear pink?

Tmoriarty · 02/21/2012, 12:41 PM

This post makes me laugh inside. For everyone who is seriously persucuting anyone for cutting a nem in half that will probably die you might as well put your mouse traps and flyswatters in the thrash as well. While I agree the proprogation of these animals holds little merit because the chance for success is pretty poor I still think it doesn't really matter if he succedds or fails. If it dies it was his money, if both halfs live, then good on him.

You guys might as well go and persucute the people cutting up choc. starfish for their harlequin shrimp as well. I wish you good luck on this bud but if you have success it won't say much for propragating them. If people want to run around cutting up their nems based on something they read than that is their choice. An intellegent person will seek advice from multiple sources, not just one internet forum.

I agree though that this is one nem that will probably not survive propragation on normal terms like a BTA does. Good luck either way.

Tyler

emdr888 · 02/21/2012, 02:29 PM

It would be great if the op succeeds. It would mean we wouldn't need to take loads of nems out of the sea. Is he doing anything different from previous people who have failed?.....maybe the lights! Time will tell.

Tmoriarty · 02/21/2012, 02:49 PM

Even if he succeeds.... that does not by any means mean we can take less nems out of the sea or that we would. The nems biology does not allow it to heal the same way as an e. quad, just because he succeeds does not mean the next person would. His success would honestly probably do more harm than good by having un-experienced people chopping up nems. Either way its still their money. Ill let mine split naturally.

If you really want to promote natural nem making... than get a 20k gallon tank and let them produce sexually like they are naturally evolved to do.

emdr888 · 02/21/2012, 03:02 PM

Don't get me wrong, I would never cut up one of my carpets...but so long as the deed is already done..I'm hoping it succeeds. And if it succeeds it wouldn't make me want to cut up mine anymore....too many variables unaccounted for.

Tmoriarty · 02/21/2012, 03:25 PM

Indeed. i hope he succeeds to, but only because than he can try to frag that red haddoni from DD that costs 700 dollars and make an easy 700 bucks :P.

emdr888 · 02/21/2012, 04:15 PM

that's the point though if it was easy to frag carpets...every one would be doing it!

elegance coral · 02/21/2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jynxtrix

EC: To put your previous post in context, Grafting fruit trees has just about as much to do with with anemones as cutting dogs in half. Half a dozen of one, could care less about the other.

NO........... You missed the whole point. My post had nothing to do with dogs. The point was that if you understand the biology of an organism, you know if it has the potential to survive being cut in half or not. Therefore, you don't actually need to cut the organism in half to find out.

Calfo's point was that if we can do something to one organism, then surely we can do it to others. Well, that is simply absurd. Life on this planet has been diversifying for 3.5 to 4+ billion years. This has produced a great deal of organisms that have very little in common. What hold true of one tells us nothing about the others.

jynxtrix · 02/22/2012, 12:03 AM

As I mentioned earlier...

Shot at 2012-02-21

Shot at 2012-02-21

And for the record, I didn't miss the point of anything.
I just dislike poor analogies.

02/18/2012, 09:35 AM	#51
Tony B (UK) Important cool title Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rayleigh, Essex, England Posts: 515	Please do keep this thread updated over the next 24 months. I have a solid purple haddoni and I would not dare cut it, purely because of the very high mortality rate. For any one else thinking of cutting haddoni nems up, please look at what others have done before you. Look at their methods - just getting the nem out and slicing it in half has been done loads of times before, with death as the common outcome. If you must slice up your haddoni, try and find a way to do it differently, try and find a way to help recovery. Just doing the same stuff over and over again that often results in death and hoping for life is a recipe for futility. Cutting carpet nems is such a controversial exercise, but you knew this at the start hence your wording and anti flaming request. Why did you decide to cut it in half? Tony __________________ TOTM July 2012

02/19/2012, 12:43 AM	#53
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	Please keep update. I hope you will be successful, however, like a lot of of posters here, I have yet seen any evidence of any success in fraging S. haddoni. This is not impossible because I have heard of 1 of the daughter anemones survived, which is failure but not total failure, in my opinion. I just hope this is not another failure frag carpet thread. Goodluck __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

02/19/2012, 08:05 AM	#55
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	And you must remember that Minh specifically mentioned S. haddoni (( which this thread is about )) and that thread was about S. gigantea, which is not the same type of anemone. __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

02/19/2012, 08:36 AM	#57
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	If you say that asking for long term (( over a year )) proof is bashing, then so be it. In that thread you link the OP, "sold" the anemone after 7 months. So, I still stand by what I said that there isn't any long term proof. As anyone who has kept an S. haddoni knows, it can take a very long time for them to be "off" before they actually die. All that "we" have asked for is long term proof, sorry that you think that is too much to ask for. __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

02/19/2012, 09:37 AM	#61
elegance coral They call me EC Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: central Florida Posts: 6,208	It took Phender's mertensii about a year to die from being cut in half. These are long lived animals that typically do nothing fast. It can take a year or more for an anemone to truly recover from simple shipping stress and bleaching. The fact that one of these cut anemones survives for a few months really tells us nothing. I honestly do not want to come across as harsh to my fellow hobbyists. I don't have a beef with the people that have been misguided by someone that was simply trying to make a name for himself. It is a very........ (how can I say this?).......... "emotional" subject for some of us. We spend countless hours, tons of money, and plenty of hard work to care for these animals. We nurse them through shipping stress, watch them grow, prosper, and become the majestic creatures they truly are. Then we find some guy that's convincing people to hack them up with a butcher knife. Ya....... We're going to have a problem with that. This is done in the name of propagation, but after years of this practice, and countless dead anemones, we still do not have captively propagated haddonis, gigantea, doreensis...... in our LFS or online stores. All we have to show for it is a whole bunch of dead anemones, and some guy that has pretty much vanished from the hobby. Seems kinda strange to me that he vanished shortly after I went to his forum, called him on his lies, and told him to stop killing sea anemones. At this point, I honestly don't care if all the stars in the heavens line up, and there's some divine intervention that allows someone, somewhere, to be successful at this. It will not erase the countless deaths that occurred up to that point, and it will not save those that are hacked to pieces after the fact. The body of evidence we have to show that this is nothing remotely close to propagation is simply overwhelming, and can not be denied. __________________ "Most of the failures with marine aquaria are due to lack of knowledge of the biological processes that occur in the aquarium." Martin A. Moe, Jr. "A scientist seeks the truth, wherever that may lead. A believer already knows the truth, and cannot be swayed no matter how compelling the evidence." Current Tank Info: I'm trying to see how many tanks will fit in my house before the wife loses it.

02/19/2012, 08:26 AM	#56
Dukester Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Sarnia Ontario Posts: 294	regardless.. that thread got the same bashing as this one. Between you and EC and a few others.. the negativity people recieve on this forum some days is astounding. if you dig around theres more than a few successful split haddoni threads here on RC, and you've taken part in them all i would imagine so how can you say that its not possible? Heres one for example: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1740727

02/19/2012, 08:46 AM	#58
Dukester Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Sarnia Ontario Posts: 294	hey, i hate to direct this at you Todd but im pretty sure that 7 months, a totally healed cut, the fact it was eating, etc etc makes it a success. Point being that once someone shows some longer term success.. its still not going to be good enough for some.

02/19/2012, 09:35 AM	#60
Tethered_Limbs Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 257	wow, people dont get it...... PREACH EC!!!!!!

02/19/2012, 09:52 AM	#62
BonsaiNut Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 4,629	For the record... : Clown anemones that can be fragged with greater than 50% success rates: E. quadricolor H. magnifica Clown anemones that can be fragged with low success rates (and questionable long term survival): S. mertensii S. haddoni Clown anemones that have no record of ever being fragged successfully: S. gigantea C. adhaesivum M. doreensis H. crispa H. malu H. aurora __________________ "You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!" - The Hobbit; J. R. R. Tolkien Last edited by BonsaiNut; 02/19/2012 at 10:07 AM.

02/21/2012, 10:34 AM	#65
jynxtrix Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Sierra Vista, AZ Posts: 40	EC: To put your previous post in context, Grafting fruit trees has just about as much to do with with anemones as cutting dogs in half. Half a dozen of one, could care less about the other. Dukester: Thank you for noticing the obvious trend here and acknowledging it and at the very least, trying to do something about it. Too bad more people can't seem to do the same. It's a shame it is the way it is. I nearly walked away from this forum completely last week. Today is the first day I've looked at it since last weeks little fiasco and even now, after cooling off, I read back through and wonder if it's even worth posting. I'm not sure how much I will participate in this thread, seeing as how it is obviously a waste of time. Even if I succeed completely in this endeavor, there are just so many cynics posting here that this thread will likely be a waste of time for any one to try to sift through for any amount of information. The direction this thread is going, I will likely lose interest in reading it and updating it myself soon, so If i disappear for an extended period of time, feel free to PM me for an update. and finally, ON TOPIC I decided to tear apart and rebuild my sump/fuge on Saturday and do a little redesign, when my sump pump is off, there is a drastic decrease in current in my tank, so I thought this would be an ideal opportunity to return "fluffy" to the general population since my fish stuff would likely have my undivided attention and I would be able to keep an eye on him the majority of the day. So, I took him out, set him in the sand, and went about my day. Fluffy crept over and embedded himself in between two pieces of base rock at the bottom of my tank and appears to be very happy. He's back to waving and dancing in the current anyway and hosting one of my mature adult clowns, it actually managed to eat a small piece of silverside last night too, which makes me happy, as spot feeding with mysis shrimp the way I have been doing would be a great deal more difficult now that he's out of the net. On a side note, Fluffy killed one of my clowns on friday (R.I.P. Perky). It was a small juvenile clown that liked to wedge itself between Fluffy and the breeder net wall. From the looks of it Perky got in there and was smothered, as there were no signs of damage, decease or distress. The larger of the two nems is also doing well, and has finally closed the gap between the two healed edges, things are looking well with the 4 t5ho setup 10k/red/actinic/10k. I'll try to post pictures later, if I don't lose interest after reading whatever assault goes on between this posting and the next time I log on. Those of you sincerely interested in this, thanks again. Hopefully my progress will be of some value to you.

02/21/2012, 11:43 AM	#67
stickleback Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 189	jynxtrix, what are these red tubes your are talking about? Are they the growlux type tubes which appear pink?

02/21/2012, 12:41 PM	#68
Tmoriarty Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Visalia, Ca Posts: 1,040	This post makes me laugh inside. For everyone who is seriously persucuting anyone for cutting a nem in half that will probably die you might as well put your mouse traps and flyswatters in the thrash as well. While I agree the proprogation of these animals holds little merit because the chance for success is pretty poor I still think it doesn't really matter if he succedds or fails. If it dies it was his money, if both halfs live, then good on him. You guys might as well go and persucute the people cutting up choc. starfish for their harlequin shrimp as well. I wish you good luck on this bud but if you have success it won't say much for propragating them. If people want to run around cutting up their nems based on something they read than that is their choice. An intellegent person will seek advice from multiple sources, not just one internet forum. I agree though that this is one nem that will probably not survive propragation on normal terms like a BTA does. Good luck either way. Tyler __________________ Tyler Current Tank Info: Tanks: 203g custom, Mixed Reef, SRO-3000, Vortech-Powered (x2 MP40) 75g sump with 15g Fuge section

02/21/2012, 02:29 PM	#69
emdr888 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Uk, Lewes Posts: 143	It would be great if the op succeeds. It would mean we wouldn't need to take loads of nems out of the sea. Is he doing anything different from previous people who have failed?.....maybe the lights! Time will tell.

02/21/2012, 02:49 PM	#70
Tmoriarty Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Visalia, Ca Posts: 1,040	Even if he succeeds.... that does not by any means mean we can take less nems out of the sea or that we would. The nems biology does not allow it to heal the same way as an e. quad, just because he succeeds does not mean the next person would. His success would honestly probably do more harm than good by having un-experienced people chopping up nems. Either way its still their money. Ill let mine split naturally. If you really want to promote natural nem making... than get a 20k gallon tank and let them produce sexually like they are naturally evolved to do. __________________ Tyler Current Tank Info: Tanks: 203g custom, Mixed Reef, SRO-3000, Vortech-Powered (x2 MP40) 75g sump with 15g Fuge section

02/21/2012, 03:02 PM	#71
emdr888 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Uk, Lewes Posts: 143	Don't get me wrong, I would never cut up one of my carpets...but so long as the deed is already done..I'm hoping it succeeds. And if it succeeds it wouldn't make me want to cut up mine anymore....too many variables unaccounted for.

02/21/2012, 03:25 PM	#72
Tmoriarty Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Visalia, Ca Posts: 1,040	Indeed. i hope he succeeds to, but only because than he can try to frag that red haddoni from DD that costs 700 dollars and make an easy 700 bucks :P. __________________ Tyler Current Tank Info: Tanks: 203g custom, Mixed Reef, SRO-3000, Vortech-Powered (x2 MP40) 75g sump with 15g Fuge section

02/21/2012, 04:15 PM	#73
emdr888 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Uk, Lewes Posts: 143	that's the point though if it was easy to frag carpets...every one would be doing it! __________________ carpeted 8ft tank, luminous green, red, blue and purply/green :)

02/22/2012, 12:03 AM	#75
jynxtrix Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Sierra Vista, AZ Posts: 40	As I mentioned earlier... Shot at 2012-02-21 Shot at 2012-02-21 Shot at 2012-02-21 Shot at 2012-02-21 Shot at 2012-02-21 And for the record, I didn't miss the point of anything. I just dislike poor analogies.