Corals? easy... Fish? no luck - Page 3

BriggsReef · 05/02/2012, 02:53 PM

Ok great info. That would definetly explain most of my issues. Just the goby was healthy 2 months before the same issue. So was it just a delayed reaction for him?

BriggsReef · 05/02/2012, 02:56 PM

I definetly agree I'm aclimating wrong. I just don't see how that would take a fish that is healthy for 2 weeks to 2 months and suddenly make them stop eating and stay in a cave

kingevil · 05/02/2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BriggsReef

Ok great info. That would definetly explain most of my issues. Just the goby was healthy 2 months before the same issue. So was it just a delayed reaction for him?

unfortunately, i don't think there is a way to gauge how certain things will effect living creatures. but again, there may be other factors coming into play that we don't know about.

Cloudburst2000 · 05/02/2012, 10:52 PM

Okay, I think you might have missed my first post with a couple questions. Did the goby and gramma just start acting weird after the addition of the 'unhealthy' wrasse, or were they acting strangely before this? If they started acting off after the addition of the wrasse, it is very possible that the wrasse introduced a disease into your tank. That would be my guess as to what the problem is. I don't think the problem is ammonia from acclimation. Granted, you were taking too long acclimating but the fish in most cases lived for way too long (a month or more) for it to have been ammonia poisoning from acclimation. So my guess would be disease introduced with the sick wrasse assuming all problems started AFTER the introduction of the wrasse.

IMHO, quarantine is a must for any healthy system. One sick fish can take down an entire tank. Set up a quarantine/hospital tank. I'd personally move all the fish to a hospital tank and start treating them. Keep them there for about six weeks and during that time, set up traps in your tank just to make sure that you don't have any predators like gorilla crabs lurking about. And if you ever get an unhealthy-looking fish, DO NOT put it in your main tank. Immediately quarantine and treat the fish.

Sk8r · 05/02/2012, 11:02 PM

Sometimes if you've got a complex problem---it could indeed be more than one cause; but with these fish being shipped all over the globe, the possibility of gill flukes, ich, lymphocystis and oodinium is pretty high...gone are the days when a fish sits at the store for six months waiting to be sold. So you could have a few gotten by the acclimation process and one or two succumbing to a parasite---if there was a mandy involved (I can't remember) they can also quietly starve by eliminating their food source too fast. You HAVE been very honest about your procedures and tank conditions and that's helping us try to find an answer to this difficult problem. So bear with us---we're still feeling our way because we're not there and we can't see everything; but your descriptions are good, and the best thing to do is fix everything we come to that COULD be wrong and then see if that doesn't solve the problem. I know this has been a heart-breaker, but I think we're seeing some possible solutions that can get you some healthy fish.

BriggsReef · 05/03/2012, 03:27 PM

Sorry I did miss your post. I got the wrasse and the Chromis at the same time.

So there could be a disease in the tank I just wish i knew which one....i can't believe i didn't think of that

BUT i just got my tds meter today and my RO/DI is pushing out water with 38tds so i'm wondering if its not a disease....its just bad filtered water

Sk8r · 05/03/2012, 07:06 PM

Ow@ That tds should be 0. YOu've got an expired cylinder---of some sort: some house systems can be real rough on ro/di units. The good news is that fresh water does not aggressively dissolve copper or brass, but if it's coming in with that---you couldn't keep corals or inverts. So copper isn't it. That leaves a dozen other contaminants, including arsenic, iron---you don't say where you're located.
But in the spirit of just fixing things as we turn them up, it shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to do new cylinders in that ro/di, if you have an lfs that's up to the job. So getting that back to 0 would be good. [I've seen them run up far, far higher for tapwater.]

8-ball · 05/04/2012, 11:35 AM

I think alot of people are really over thinking this thread. I went through relatively the same things with my fish. It turned out to be Marine Velvet. If the issue keeps happening its because the tank needs to run Fallow for a period of time before anything can be added(can stay dorment for 6 weeks). You wont see Velvet most of the time because the fish will hide in the rocks til they pass. It wasnt until my 4th fish that I caught a glimpse of it on my dying fish. It can kill a fish REALLY quick within 1-2 days.

TDS has little to do with it because you dont know what kind of TDS it is, it could be any number of things but people run FO and FOWLERS all the time w/0 RODI systems. Your Corals and Inverts would be the first things to show signs of decline if it was water related.

kingevil · 05/04/2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8-ball

I think alot of people are really over thinking this thread. I went through relatively the same things with my fish. It turned out to be Marine Velvet. If the issue keeps happening its because the tank needs to run Fallow for a period of time before anything can be added(can stay dorment for 6 weeks). You wont see Velvet most of the time because the fish will hide in the rocks til they pass. It wasnt until my 4th fish that I caught a glimpse of it on my dying fish. It can kill a fish REALLY quick within 1-2 days.

if it were mv, the fish would show signs both physically and in their behavior.

Cloudburst2000 · 05/04/2012, 11:39 AM

Uh, just log onto BRS and buy their filters and replace...voila. And they have good prices and people trust their products. Also, is this a new RO/DI or did you buy used? A new RO/DI should not be used up that quickly...unless it was cheaply made maybe. My house has horrible water and my filters still lasted over a year. If it was new, I would complain. If it was used, just replace the filters.

Still keep an eye out for illness. I still suspect this may be the problem. Lots of people keep fish without using RO/DI water at all. They usually have lots of algae but high TDS isn't necessarily going to cause problems in fish.

kingevil · 05/04/2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BriggsReef

Sorry I did miss your post. I got the wrasse and the Chromis at the same time.

So there could be a disease in the tank I just wish i knew which one....i can't believe i didn't think of that

BUT i just got my tds meter today and my RO/DI is pushing out water with 38tds so i'm wondering if its not a disease....its just bad filtered water

yikes. test all of your filters and membrane.

8-ball · 05/04/2012, 06:33 PM

He pointed out all the signs of velvet, fish loses appetite and behavior changes and poof down it goes. Ive seen my fish die in as little as 2 days. I wouldnt put all your eggs in the RODI basket or acclimation basket. Disease is more probable if you introduced an "unhealthy" wrasse to the system. Like I stated before either ich or velvet have long dormant cycles and if you keep adding fish your just fueling the fire for the parasites//diseases.

BriggsReef · 05/04/2012, 11:35 PM

I won't be adding anymore fish for a while... Gonna get new filters and lets the tank settle for a while.

i'm spending all my money on my LEDs right now anyway

Cloudburst2000 · 05/04/2012, 11:51 PM

And don't add any fish unless you quarantine them. If your fish are still acting strangely, then I really suggest setting up a hospital tank and removing the fish into it to treat them with medication. I agree with 8-ball, I still suspect that some type of disease is your main issue likely introduced by the unhealthy wrasse.

BriggsReef · 05/24/2012, 02:12 PM

I just want to put in a followup on my tank.

THINGS THAT HAVE CHANGED

I bought a refractometer and my salt was at 1.027 so i lowered it to 1.025
My sally lightfoot crab went missing.
I added LED lighting (which generates no heat)

RESULTS

Water temp is now stable and no longer do i see any rise and fall of the temperature (which is something i didn't think about before as being a major issue)

The fish have returned to good health and as of this week are all active and hungry.

CONCLUSION

The cool yet TERRIBLE Sally Lightfoot crab being a psycho and terrorizing was stressing my fish as well as the water temp and salinity. The combination of these three things is what I believe was my issue all along.

Thanks everyone for helping me and walking through this with me. Glad my fish can live to see another day.

RIP
Royal Gramma
RIP
Blue-Green Chromis
RIP
Sally Lightfoot

chad316 · 05/24/2012, 03:44 PM

Problem already solved...late post.

BriggsReef · 05/24/2012, 04:21 PM

It was me that started the thread i just wanted to update

bongarone · 05/24/2012, 08:33 PM

Sometimes the problem is in fact as simple as a bad (evil) specimen.

Sump banishment is a fairly common task, especially for crabs.

05/02/2012, 02:53 PM	#51
BriggsReef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Easthampton Ma Posts: 226	Ok great info. That would definetly explain most of my issues. Just the goby was healthy 2 months before the same issue. So was it just a delayed reaction for him? __________________ 75g DT, 20g Long Sump/Refugium, Reef Octopus NB150 Skimmer, Dimmable 120w (60-3w) Led DIY light w/ 2:1 RB to W and 12 Violets, 100lbs Live rock, 100lbs Live Sand, Eshopps Overflow, Rio Return pump. 2x700gph powerheads

05/02/2012, 02:56 PM	#52
BriggsReef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Easthampton Ma Posts: 226	I definetly agree I'm aclimating wrong. I just don't see how that would take a fish that is healthy for 2 weeks to 2 months and suddenly make them stop eating and stay in a cave __________________ 75g DT, 20g Long Sump/Refugium, Reef Octopus NB150 Skimmer, Dimmable 120w (60-3w) Led DIY light w/ 2:1 RB to W and 12 Violets, 100lbs Live rock, 100lbs Live Sand, Eshopps Overflow, Rio Return pump. 2x700gph powerheads

05/02/2012, 11:02 PM	#55
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Sometimes if you've got a complex problem---it could indeed be more than one cause; but with these fish being shipped all over the globe, the possibility of gill flukes, ich, lymphocystis and oodinium is pretty high...gone are the days when a fish sits at the store for six months waiting to be sold. So you could have a few gotten by the acclimation process and one or two succumbing to a parasite---if there was a mandy involved (I can't remember) they can also quietly starve by eliminating their food source too fast. You HAVE been very honest about your procedures and tank conditions and that's helping us try to find an answer to this difficult problem. So bear with us---we're still feeling our way because we're not there and we can't see everything; but your descriptions are good, and the best thing to do is fix everything we come to that COULD be wrong and then see if that doesn't solve the problem. I know this has been a heart-breaker, but I think we're seeing some possible solutions that can get you some healthy fish. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/03/2012, 03:27 PM	#56
BriggsReef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Easthampton Ma Posts: 226	Sorry I did miss your post. I got the wrasse and the Chromis at the same time. So there could be a disease in the tank I just wish i knew which one....i can't believe i didn't think of that *BUT* i just got my tds meter today and my RO/DI is pushing out water with 38tds so i'm wondering if its not a disease....its just bad filtered water __________________ 75g DT, 20g Long Sump/Refugium, Reef Octopus NB150 Skimmer, Dimmable 120w (60-3w) Led DIY light w/ 2:1 RB to W and 12 Violets, 100lbs Live rock, 100lbs Live Sand, Eshopps Overflow, Rio Return pump. 2x700gph powerheads

05/03/2012, 07:06 PM	#57
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Ow@ That tds should be 0. YOu've got an expired cylinder---of some sort: some house systems can be real rough on ro/di units. The good news is that fresh water does not aggressively dissolve copper or brass, but if it's coming in with that---you couldn't keep corals or inverts. So copper isn't it. That leaves a dozen other contaminants, including arsenic, iron---you don't say where you're located. But in the spirit of just fixing things as we turn them up, it shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to do new cylinders in that ro/di, if you have an lfs that's up to the job. So getting that back to 0 would be good. [I've seen them run up far, far higher for tapwater.] __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/02/2012, 10:52 PM	#54
Cloudburst2000 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,485	Okay, I think you might have missed my first post with a couple questions. Did the goby and gramma just start acting weird after the addition of the 'unhealthy' wrasse, or were they acting strangely before this? If they started acting off after the addition of the wrasse, it is very possible that the wrasse introduced a disease into your tank. That would be my guess as to what the problem is. I don't think the problem is ammonia from acclimation. Granted, you were taking too long acclimating but the fish in most cases lived for way too long (a month or more) for it to have been ammonia poisoning from acclimation. So my guess would be disease introduced with the sick wrasse assuming all problems started AFTER the introduction of the wrasse. IMHO, quarantine is a must for any healthy system. One sick fish can take down an entire tank. Set up a quarantine/hospital tank. I'd personally move all the fish to a hospital tank and start treating them. Keep them there for about six weeks and during that time, set up traps in your tank just to make sure that you don't have any predators like gorilla crabs lurking about. And if you ever get an unhealthy-looking fish, DO NOT put it in your main tank. Immediately quarantine and treat the fish.

05/04/2012, 11:35 AM	#58
8-ball Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 106	I think alot of people are really over thinking this thread. I went through relatively the same things with my fish. It turned out to be Marine Velvet. If the issue keeps happening its because the tank needs to run Fallow for a period of time before anything can be added(can stay dorment for 6 weeks). You wont see Velvet most of the time because the fish will hide in the rocks til they pass. It wasnt until my 4th fish that I caught a glimpse of it on my dying fish. It can kill a fish REALLY quick within 1-2 days. TDS has little to do with it because you dont know what kind of TDS it is, it could be any number of things but people run FO and FOWLERS all the time w/0 RODI systems. Your Corals and Inverts would be the first things to show signs of decline if it was water related.

05/04/2012, 11:39 AM	#60
Cloudburst2000 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,485	Uh, just log onto BRS and buy their filters and replace...voila. And they have good prices and people trust their products. Also, is this a new RO/DI or did you buy used? A new RO/DI should not be used up that quickly...unless it was cheaply made maybe. My house has horrible water and my filters still lasted over a year. If it was new, I would complain. If it was used, just replace the filters. Still keep an eye out for illness. I still suspect this may be the problem. Lots of people keep fish without using RO/DI water at all. They usually have lots of algae but high TDS isn't necessarily going to cause problems in fish.

05/04/2012, 06:33 PM	#62
8-ball Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 106	He pointed out all the signs of velvet, fish loses appetite and behavior changes and poof down it goes. Ive seen my fish die in as little as 2 days. I wouldnt put all your eggs in the RODI basket or acclimation basket. Disease is more probable if you introduced an "unhealthy" wrasse to the system. Like I stated before either ich or velvet have long dormant cycles and if you keep adding fish your just fueling the fire for the parasites//diseases.

05/04/2012, 11:35 PM	#63
BriggsReef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Easthampton Ma Posts: 226	I won't be adding anymore fish for a while... Gonna get new filters and lets the tank settle for a while. i'm spending all my money on my LEDs right now anyway __________________ 75g DT, 20g Long Sump/Refugium, Reef Octopus NB150 Skimmer, Dimmable 120w (60-3w) Led DIY light w/ 2:1 RB to W and 12 Violets, 100lbs Live rock, 100lbs Live Sand, Eshopps Overflow, Rio Return pump. 2x700gph powerheads

05/04/2012, 11:51 PM	#64
Cloudburst2000 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,485	And don't add any fish unless you quarantine them. If your fish are still acting strangely, then I really suggest setting up a hospital tank and removing the fish into it to treat them with medication. I agree with 8-ball, I still suspect that some type of disease is your main issue likely introduced by the unhealthy wrasse.

05/24/2012, 02:12 PM	#65
BriggsReef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Easthampton Ma Posts: 226	I just want to put in a followup on my tank. THINGS THAT HAVE CHANGED I bought a refractometer and my salt was at 1.027 so i lowered it to 1.025 My sally lightfoot crab went missing. I added LED lighting (which generates no heat) RESULTS Water temp is now stable and no longer do i see any rise and fall of the temperature (which is something i didn't think about before as being a major issue) The fish have returned to good health and as of this week are all active and hungry. CONCLUSION The cool yet TERRIBLE Sally Lightfoot crab being a psycho and terrorizing was stressing my fish as well as the water temp and salinity. The combination of these three things is what I believe was my issue all along. Thanks everyone for helping me and walking through this with me. Glad my fish can live to see another day. RIP Royal Gramma RIP Blue-Green Chromis RIP Sally Lightfoot __________________ 75g DT, 20g Long Sump/Refugium, Reef Octopus NB150 Skimmer, Dimmable 120w (60-3w) Led DIY light w/ 2:1 RB to W and 12 Violets, 100lbs Live rock, 100lbs Live Sand, Eshopps Overflow, Rio Return pump. 2x700gph powerheads

05/24/2012, 03:44 PM	#66
chad316 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Tennessee Posts: 162	Problem already solved...late post. __________________ Chad Current Tank Info: 65 gallon tank

05/24/2012, 04:21 PM	#67
BriggsReef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Easthampton Ma Posts: 226	It was me that started the thread i just wanted to update __________________ 75g DT, 20g Long Sump/Refugium, Reef Octopus NB150 Skimmer, Dimmable 120w (60-3w) Led DIY light w/ 2:1 RB to W and 12 Violets, 100lbs Live rock, 100lbs Live Sand, Eshopps Overflow, Rio Return pump. 2x700gph powerheads

05/24/2012, 08:33 PM	#68
bongarone Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: California Posts: 423	Sometimes the problem is in fact as simple as a bad (evil) specimen. Sump banishment is a fairly common task, especially for crabs.