DC pumps- Waveline, Speedwave or Diablo? - Page 3

NaClTDog · 11/23/2013, 08:08 AM

I have a jebao 12000, eBay, it is working great. Sure it is copy, I understand the patent thing, 10k to get one stinks, I have been there, then there are companies that just write a ton of them hoping to control the market.

I also have a jet ski, and every jet ski made is direct descendant of a patented product of a American who could get anybody to make his product, that is until a Japanese company saw it and copied it..

That being said, I have a jebao, it's cheap, it works- for now.

MrSandman · 11/23/2013, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSandman

Jeremy. I got my dc6000 pump from you guys several months ago and wasn't aware of this issue you mention above. How do I know if my pump is affected?

Can anybody answer this question? Reason i ask is whenever my pump loses power (e.g. apex feed mode or power outage) and attempts to start back up again, it stalls. It will fire up for like 1 second, then just stop with the 4th bar flashing on the controller. This is a concern. Anyone else have this problem? Will this jumper swap Jeremy talks about fix that?

shaginwagon13 · 11/23/2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klaus Jansen

Info : .. the RD3 Speedy Line has nothing to do with China, Jebao or Honcar. Its complet German Engineering. Parts, Injectionmolding-Toolings, Stator, Rotor, Software and Electronic are German Components. The Stator-and Rotorcovering are made from pure Titan, laserweldet by Trumpf, in Germany.

Best regards... Klaus

Trust me I know. I have been running your skimmers and pumps for years now and I have never once had a problem. Your quality is amazing, the price tag is worth the product you guys sell.

Can you PM me who carries your line of pump in the US so I can contact them and place an order for the 80w?

tsadik · 11/23/2013, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaginwagon13

Trust me I know. I have been running your skimmers and pumps for years now and I have never once had a problem. Your quality is amazing, the price tag is worth the product you guys sell.

Can you PM me who carries your line of pump in the US so I can contact them and place an order for the 80w?

PremiumAquatics.com

Jeremy B. · 11/25/2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSandman

Jeremy. I got my dc6000 pump from you guys several months ago and wasn't aware of this issue you mention above. How do I know if my pump is affected?

If you are not having any issues then you're fine. Not all of the first batch pumps were affected with this. However if you are experiencing shutoff issues randomly, then you probably need to replace the controller on it.

MrSandman · 11/25/2013, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy B.

If you are not having any issues then you're fine. Not all of the first batch pumps were affected with this. However if you are experiencing shutoff issues randomly, then you probably need to replace the controller on it.

Thanks Jeremy. My issues are shut-off but rather startup. I find that if the pump outlet is submerged the back pressure might be too high that it stalls on startup. Is this related to the issues? Or is what I am experiencing expected?

Boboli · 12/02/2013, 09:39 PM

I have an RLSS skimmer with DC 5000 pump. I have now been through 3 pumps none lasting more than 6 months. The pump that quit today was purchased on 9/17/13.
Anyone else having problems with there pump ?

shaginwagon13 · 12/02/2013, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boboli

I have an RLSS skimmer with DC 5000 pump. I have now been through 3 pumps none lasting more than 6 months. The pump that quit today was purchased on 9/17/13.
Anyone else having problems with there pump ?

Did RLSS warranty them?

gcarroll · 12/03/2013, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaginwagon13

Did RLSS warranty them?

Does it really matter at that point?

shaginwagon13 · 12/03/2013, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcarroll

Does it really matter at that point?

Good point, I was just wondering if they honored the warranty thats all.

Boboli · 12/03/2013, 08:21 PM

Yes im looking into a warranty now but thats looking grim.

LobsterOfJustice · 12/05/2013, 06:58 PM

I'm in the same boat trying to figure out which brand to go with. My thought is that all of these chinese brands are new to the market so we have no idea which ones will last longer... so buying the more expensive one is simply more of a gamble. We know they all come from the same factory, but may not be the same exact quality/product.

I originally wanted the RLSS Waveline 1200. Being able to control the unit with the Apex is a big deal to me. But they've been saying the release of the upgraded controller is just around the corner for almost a year now from what I understand. This is also the most expensive of the options.

A local guy introduced me to the Jebao and people seem pleased with their powerheads. This pump is apex-controllable via a modified reef angel cable. This is the cheapest option, and I've been leaning towards this for the past few weeks.

Now thanks to a black friday giveaway, I've got a couple hundred worth of reward points at bulk reef supply, and they sell the speedwave, so now I'm considering that as well...

plasma327 · 01/03/2014, 02:13 PM

I have and use the Speedwave Dc10000 since May of 2012 issue free so far. IT is a beast and ultra quiet. It is running a 120 on a manifold system with 2 reactors and chiller and only runs at 75 percent to run everything.

FlyPenFly · 01/03/2014, 04:35 PM

How bad is it to throttle a DC pump at the output. Even at 60%, might be too much flow.

Purchased a DC9000 but even with it running 2 reactors might be too much flow for my maggie muffler.

jimmyj7090 · 01/03/2014, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boboli

Yes im looking into a warranty now but thats looking grim.

I got my RLSS through aquarium specialty (gen 1 pump). I started having issues with it not restarting after hitting feed mode. 1 e-mail and the response was "we'll replace it ASAP".

Who did you get yours through?

bowfront · 01/03/2014, 09:24 PM

FWIW this product is not UL listed as RLSS once claimed. I have a waveline pump that I just received and the UL certification printed on the box is covered with tape. Here's some more info on what's going on.

http://waveline-recall.info/index.html77

Ron99 · 01/06/2014, 07:37 PM

Technically, the only part that has to be UL certified is the power supply because it is what's handling dangerous voltage and current. The pump itself doesn't need UL certification because it only runs on 24V. However, if you put a UL mark on a box it implies everything in the box is certified and that was their problem.

plasma327 · 01/06/2014, 09:32 PM

Technically they are falsifying there product to push sales through. To me that shows they could care less about the quality of the product and the end user.

htjunkie · 01/10/2014, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSandman

Can anybody answer this question? Reason i ask is whenever my pump loses power (e.g. apex feed mode or power outage) and attempts to start back up again, it stalls. It will fire up for like 1 second, then just stop with the 4th bar flashing on the controller. This is a concern. Anyone else have this problem? Will this jumper swap Jeremy talks about fix that?

I have a similar issue where if there's a brownout or dirty power shutdown, the controller (DC6000) would start but at the lowest setting. Manual override is required to get it back up to where it supposes to. This doesn't happen if I turn off the pump using the Apex or say unplug from the outlet. We had a pretty bad snow storm and power was on and off, good thing I noticed it early enough when power came back. Since then I have an UPS attached so at least it would be a clean cut of power when battery runs out.

Not sure how the warranty works in this case, also all the screws for the pump have been corrode badly.

biodegraded · 01/10/2014, 02:10 PM

I think RLSS is one of the worst outfits currently operating, bordering on downright shady. I got two (one for backup) of what is now referred to as the "gen 1" model of the DC10000. Two published specifications around which I designed my entire hardline return plumbing were:

External operation
1 1/4" NPT threads on input and output

Being UL listed was not a priority for me, but it was published as such. I am noise sensitive, but there were no published claims, however anecdotal reports here ranged from "fairly quiet" to "silent". I was hoping for the latter, like what my old Silent One pumps of 25 years ago were. They were literally dead silent. What I got was:

Both pumps leaked about a liter an hour necessitating internal operation
Both pumps had fouled output threads and 1 1/4" NPT parts would not thread on

They are also noisy, making a whirring grinding sound whose pitch increases with speed. It is the loudest single item in my entire aquarium room, including the skimmer and RO booster pump.

I emailed RLSS and the president replied about forwarding my mail to a technician and he would contact me if he had any ideas. In other words, I was brushed off - there is no technician of course, they aren't an engineering company, they just branded something that was being made in China and identical to other brands.

I thought a long time about the pumps and decided I could redo my plumping and run them internally. I did very much like the feed pause, slow starts and selectable speeds. Efficiency is very good though that was of lower priority to me. So I used a 1 1/4" NPT die to cut the threads so parts would fit on and went with them.

Eleven months later I now consider my decision to be a big mistake - the most expensive mistake I've made as I return to reef keeping. I should've just boxed the junk up and returned it. I'm now looking at replacements and the Wavelines will be relegated to low duty operations like my soon to be mixing station. (After I get a couple stupidly expensive replacement o-rings that are supposed to permit external operation. Maybe.) The only commonly reported problem with my pumps that I have not experienced is the controller failing. Yet. I thoroughly expect it to happen sometime in the future.

For what it's worth. I, for one, will never buy an RLSS anything ever again.

Mr. Brooks · 01/10/2014, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biodegraded

I think RLSS is one of the worst outfits currently operating, bordering on downright shady. I got two (one for backup) of what is now referred to as the "gen 1" model of the DC10000. Two published specifications around which I designed my entire hardline return plumbing were:

External operation
1 1/4" NPT threads on input and output

Being UL listed was not a priority for me, but it was published as such. I am noise sensitive, but there were no published claims, however anecdotal reports here ranged from "fairly quiet" to "silent". I was hoping for the latter, like what my old Silent One pumps of 25 years ago were. They were literally dead silent. What I got was:

Both pumps leaked about a liter an hour necessitating internal operation
Both pumps had fouled output threads and 1 1/4" NPT parts would not thread on

They are also noisy, making a whirring grinding sound whose pitch increases with speed. It is the loudest single item in my entire aquarium room, including the skimmer and RO booster pump.

I emailed RLSS and the president replied about forwarding my mail to a technician and he would contact me if he had any ideas. In other words, I was brushed off - there is no technician of course, they aren't an engineering company, they just branded something that was being made in China and identical to other brands.

I thought a long time about the pumps and decided I could redo my plumping and run them internally. I did very much like the feed pause, slow starts and selectable speeds. Efficiency is very good though that was of lower priority to me. So I used a 1 1/4" NPT die to cut the threads so parts would fit on and went with them.

Eleven months later I now consider my decision to be a big mistake - the most expensive mistake I've made as I return to reef keeping. I should've just boxed the junk up and returned it. I'm now looking at replacements and the Wavelines will be relegated to low duty operations like my soon to be mixing station. (After I get a couple stupidly expensive replacement o-rings that are supposed to permit external operation. Maybe.) The only commonly reported problem with my pumps that I have not experienced is the controller failing. Yet. I thoroughly expect it to happen sometime in the future.

For what it's worth. I, for one, will never buy an RLSS anything ever again.

I suspect we'll hear more stories like this as time passes. I think a lot of the old school guys expect this type of experience from a cheap pump. I feel bad for the new guys that don't know what they're getting themselves into.

biodegraded · 01/10/2014, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks

I suspect we'll hear more stories like this as time passes. I think a lot of the old school guys expect this type of experience from a cheap pump. I feel bad for the new guys that don't know what they're getting themselves into.

Except @ $300 a pop, they weren't cheap. They were right in cost with pumps from Reeflo, etc. I went with them because of the DC technology. I still very much like (and use) the feed pause, soft start and variable speeds.

I think my main problem is I adopted too early in a relatively new technology. If my units were the so-called "gen 2", I might have had no post to write. Dunno and I'll never find out, 'cause I ain't trying another RLSS product again. Their business practices preclude that even if their products were as advertised and plausibly reliable.

Mr. Brooks · 01/10/2014, 02:48 PM

Compared to the only other controllable DC pump on the market, Red Dragon, they're extremely cheap. But I feel ya. There are lots of AC pumps on the market with a proven track record of reliability for less than $300.

biodegraded · 01/10/2014, 02:53 PM

Aye, you are right, and I am now looking at those proven pumps, trying to figure out which ones are really (no, really honestly) quiet. Feel free to send me a PM if you have recommendations.

As an aside, there is nothing inherently more expensive in making DC motors instead of AC. It's just a matter of time and scale to bring them in line.

[edit: target flow ~1200 g/h @ 5' head]

jda · 01/10/2014, 02:57 PM

Please also consider how long these things have been on the market, so longevity is a huge issue. I have a Diablo 10500, and so far it is as advertised with wattage, head and flow... but I have no idea how long it will last. I take this as a parallel to 10 (or so) years ago when darts and hammerheads came out and people started to replace their AmpMasters with them only to find out that you would be lucky if your dart did not need a seal, bearing or motor within 24 months, whereas the AmpMasters that they replaced would have still been run strong.

I took a chance on a Diablo DC, but it is still a chance. I won't be happy unless it last 5+ years since the pump that it replaced could easily last 5+ years and some will go 10. I do, however, have a few mags and external pumps laying around that I could plumb up in 10 minutes in case it fails.

12/05/2013, 06:58 PM	#62
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	I'm in the same boat trying to figure out which brand to go with. My thought is that all of these chinese brands are new to the market so we have no idea which ones will last longer... so buying the more expensive one is simply more of a gamble. We know they all come from the same factory, but may not be the same exact quality/product. I originally wanted the RLSS Waveline 1200. Being able to control the unit with the Apex is a big deal to me. But they've been saying the release of the upgraded controller is just around the corner for almost a year now from what I understand. This is also the most expensive of the options. A local guy introduced me to the Jebao and people seem pleased with their powerheads. This pump is apex-controllable via a modified reef angel cable. This is the cheapest option, and I've been leaning towards this for the past few weeks. Now thanks to a black friday giveaway, I've got a couple hundred worth of reward points at bulk reef supply, and they sell the speedwave, so now I'm considering that as well... __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

01/03/2014, 09:24 PM	#66
bowfront 10 & Over Club Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,663	FWIW this product is not UL listed as RLSS once claimed. I have a waveline pump that I just received and the UL certification printed on the box is covered with tape. Here's some more info on what's going on. http://waveline-recall.info/index.html77 Last edited by bowfront; 01/03/2014 at 10:13 PM.

01/10/2014, 02:10 PM	#70
biodegraded Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Coast Range, Oregon Posts: 380	I think RLSS is one of the worst outfits currently operating, bordering on downright shady. I got two (one for backup) of what is now referred to as the "gen 1" model of the DC10000. Two published specifications around which I designed my entire hardline return plumbing were: External operation 1 1/4" NPT threads on input and output Being UL listed was not a priority for me, but it was published as such. I am noise sensitive, but there were no published claims, however anecdotal reports here ranged from "fairly quiet" to "silent". I was hoping for the latter, like what my old Silent One pumps of 25 years ago were. They were literally dead silent. What I got was: Both pumps leaked about a liter an hour necessitating internal operation Both pumps had fouled output threads and 1 1/4" NPT parts would not thread on They are also noisy, making a whirring grinding sound whose pitch increases with speed. It is the loudest single item in my entire aquarium room, including the skimmer and RO booster pump. I emailed RLSS and the president replied about forwarding my mail to a technician and he would contact me if he had any ideas. In other words, I was brushed off - there is no technician of course, they aren't an engineering company, they just branded something that was being made in China and identical to other brands. I thought a long time about the pumps and decided I could redo my plumping and run them internally. I did very much like the feed pause, slow starts and selectable speeds. Efficiency is very good though that was of lower priority to me. So I used a 1 1/4" NPT die to cut the threads so parts would fit on and went with them. Eleven months later I now consider my decision to be a big mistake - the most expensive mistake I've made as I return to reef keeping. I should've just boxed the junk up and returned it. I'm now looking at replacements and the Wavelines will be relegated to low duty operations like my soon to be mixing station. (After I get a couple stupidly expensive replacement o-rings that are supposed to permit external operation. Maybe.) The only commonly reported problem with my pumps that I have not experienced is the controller failing. Yet. I thoroughly expect it to happen sometime in the future. For what it's worth. I, for one, will never buy an RLSS anything ever again.

01/10/2014, 02:53 PM	#74
biodegraded Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Coast Range, Oregon Posts: 380	Aye, you are right, and I am now looking at those proven pumps, trying to figure out which ones are really (no, really honestly) quiet. Feel free to send me a PM if you have recommendations. As an aside, there is nothing inherently more expensive in making DC motors instead of AC. It's just a matter of time and scale to bring them in line. [edit: target flow ~1200 g/h @ 5' head] Last edited by biodegraded; 01/10/2014 at 02:59 PM.

11/23/2013, 08:08 AM	#51
NaClTDog Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 55	I have a jebao 12000, eBay, it is working great. Sure it is copy, I understand the patent thing, 10k to get one stinks, I have been there, then there are companies that just write a ton of them hoping to control the market. I also have a jet ski, and every jet ski made is direct descendant of a patented product of a American who could get anybody to make his product, that is until a Japanese company saw it and copied it.. That being said, I have a jebao, it's cheap, it works- for now.

12/02/2013, 09:39 PM	#57
Boboli Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: The streets of Bakersfield Posts: 393	I have an RLSS skimmer with DC 5000 pump. I have now been through 3 pumps none lasting more than 6 months. The pump that quit today was purchased on 9/17/13. Anyone else having problems with there pump ?

12/03/2013, 08:21 PM	#61
Boboli Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: The streets of Bakersfield Posts: 393	Yes im looking into a warranty now but thats looking grim.

01/03/2014, 02:13 PM	#63
plasma327 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Morgantown WV Posts: 304	I have and use the Speedwave Dc10000 since May of 2012 issue free so far. IT is a beast and ultra quiet. It is running a 120 on a manifold system with 2 reactors and chiller and only runs at 75 percent to run everything.

01/03/2014, 04:35 PM	#64
FlyPenFly SPS Killer Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,490	How bad is it to throttle a DC pump at the output. Even at 60%, might be too much flow. Purchased a DC9000 but even with it running 2 reactors might be too much flow for my maggie muffler.

01/06/2014, 07:37 PM	#67
Ron99 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: White Rock, BC, Canada Posts: 176	Technically, the only part that has to be UL certified is the power supply because it is what's handling dangerous voltage and current. The pump itself doesn't need UL certification because it only runs on 24V. However, if you put a UL mark on a box it implies everything in the box is certified and that was their problem.

01/06/2014, 09:32 PM	#68
plasma327 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Morgantown WV Posts: 304	Technically they are falsifying there product to push sales through. To me that shows they could care less about the quality of the product and the end user.

01/10/2014, 02:48 PM	#73
Mr. Brooks MASVC Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Simi Valley, CA Posts: 3,477	Compared to the only other controllable DC pump on the market, Red Dragon, they're extremely cheap. But I feel ya. There are lots of AC pumps on the market with a proven track record of reliability for less than $300.

01/10/2014, 02:57 PM	#75
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	Please also consider how long these things have been on the market, so longevity is a huge issue. I have a Diablo 10500, and so far it is as advertised with wattage, head and flow... but I have no idea how long it will last. I take this as a parallel to 10 (or so) years ago when darts and hammerheads came out and people started to replace their AmpMasters with them only to find out that you would be lucky if your dart did not need a seal, bearing or motor within 24 months, whereas the AmpMasters that they replaced would have still been run strong. I took a chance on a Diablo DC, but it is still a chance. I won't be happy unless it last 5+ years since the pump that it replaced could easily last 5+ years and some will go 10. I do, however, have a few mags and external pumps laying around that I could plumb up in 10 minutes in case it fails.