Moving Iwaki to other side of wall

[uncleof6]

Valves needed: Pump inlet: -->ball valve, on/off only. Pump outlet: --ball valve, on/off only. Return line:--> Gate valve, above 1" branch, flow control, Branch: -->gate/needle valve to control flow, one for each reactor.

Unions needed: Pump inlet: --> sch 40 spa fitting. Pump outlet: -->sch 40 spa fitting. All other unions in the system are a waste, and potential leak points. 99% of folks, whether it is planned for or not, will never take their plumbing apart, let alone spend the time to clean it, and dissasembly is not necessary for cleaning.

True union ball valves are a huge waste, as for ball valve usage (not mis-usage) $5 valves are all that is needed. If you are taking your plumbing apart all the time, maybe there is something wrong with the plumbing set up...

Glued in gate valves, if not butted against other fittings, (should not be anyway) are reuseable for as many times as there is a little over an inch of pipe sticking out both ends.

The pump needs to be removed at least twice a year, for cleaning and maintenance. No one does that? Well they are supposed to be doing that...and the spa fittings make it possible.

Other than that, the over "fitting" of return systems is a bit silly.

[dcmartinpc]

If you have the room, unions and standard valves work just fine. In some situations I am forced to use TUBV due to space restrictions. I also think it is a cleaner look. But I tend to go a bit overkill trying to keep everything looking clean. I definitely don't think they are a "waste" but I agree there are other options unless space dictates their use.

I have never had a quality TUBV leak. I have used Georg Fischer, Spears, and even the American Valve ones from Lowes. I am not saying the potential isn't there, but I have never seen a properly installed one leak in my 10 years in the hobby.

I personally prefer Georg Fischer valves (TUBV and standard) because they operate very smoothly and have held up very well for me over the years. IME cheaper valves tend to be harder to turn and I have had the regular valves from Lowes suck air and act like a Venturi and create micro bubbles. Granted it was only 2 out of the however many piles of valves I have installed, but it happened, and I hate redoing plumbing when something doesn't function as spec'd.

Buy once and buy quality and call it a day, whether you choose to use TUBV or not.

Don

[uncleof6]

Yeah clean works, and I violate my own advice at times, depending on "the client is always right" concept....

[jharding08]

Awesome info guys, thanks!

What about the right angle after the bulkhead, can I do it 6" from the bulkhead or do I need to do the 1.5"x10=15" from the bulkhead?

[uncleof6]

Yeah, the only place the 10x rule applies is between that last direction change, and the intake volute of the pump.

[jharding08]

OK. I will have way more than 15" from the 90 after the bulkhead to the intake of the pump. Thanks!

[das75]

hope no one tells the water in my house it's been breaking the 10x rule for the last 9 years cause then I'd be #$%&'d

[uncleof6]

It is your pump, and you are more than welcome to install it in any manner you wish.

However, your installation is in violation of how centrifugal pumps are supposed to be installed, and in violation of the very clear and concise instructions supplied with the pump.

Good for you it has not destroyed the bearings and bent the mainshaft yet, however, that does not mean your installation is correct. Looking at the position of the valve, you are not running that pump anywhere near what it is capable of, which makes the pump a complete waste, and that is quite possibly why it has not self destructed.

Just so you can be clear what I am saying, it is not the water that is violating the "rules" it is the operator that is violating the rules...

[das75]

I run it full open estimating around 1000gph (I know, another rule broken about to much flow through the sump) since 2008, before that a Iwaki MD 70RLT same conf. No problems, just saying.

Believe though what's saving me is head.

[uncleof6]

That pump is far more capable than 1000 gph And running low flow through the sump is breaking the rules...not the opposite. I really get a kick out of the flow rate debates...too much common practice, and not enough realization of what is really going on....

[jharding08]

what are the rules on flow rate through the sump. I would assume pushing as much water through filter media is best, but if it is too fast, does the skimmer not operate as efficiently as it should?

[uncleof6]

The more the merrier as it were. The "general rule" (common advice) is low flow through the sump. However, this is a bit of misunderstanding the concept of recirulating systems. Low flow actually reduces the effiency of the skimmer, and increasing the flow rate of course, increases the efficiency, by keeping the concentration of dissolved organics higher. Randy put it better than I have in a long time: if it was a single pass operation, low flow would be best. However, since it is not a single pass process, higher flow is more efficient. This is what I am driving at with discussions concerning recirculative flow rates, surface renewal, gas exchange and other topics. Once you get to how things really work, the arguments for "low flow through the sump" are not based on anything other than power savings, and circulation in the tank, (powerheads) cannot add to or make up for, the "recirculative flow rate."

The most direct answer to your question is, the efficiency of the skimmer is not dependant on the flow rate through the sump, rather the flow rate through the skimmer; tied to the amount of time it will take to remove a given amount of organic waste (based on the concentration.) If that makes sense to you. E.G. matching the flow through the sump to the flow through the skimmer is a bit ridiculous, once you understand how these things really work.

[jharding08]

So I am planning out the plumbing and I am going to have to have some horizontal runs on the outlet of the Iwaki, since the Iwaki will be sitting on the right side of the tank (looking at the tank), and the return is going in the middle of the tank, left of the iwaki. The manifold is sitting to the left I wont be able to run a straight up and back in from the outlet of the pump, I will need to run a horizontal run for the manifold location, T'ed off from the 1.5" vertical pipe coming from the outlet of the pipe and a 90 at the top that runs horizontal to the middle of the tank and then through the wall directly into the tank



Is it ok to make a tree in order to get to the proper horizontal location for going through the wall? I could move the manifold over to the right, so it wouldnt need a horizontal run, could i put the return on the right side of the tank, or is middle best?

Current location of manifold, I think if I run straight back from the outlet pipe, i can reach without having to go horizontal from the 1.5

[jharding08]

Also, what is the best location for the 1/2" bulkhead in the sump? Dead center of the sump? Should I use a down-turned 90 on the inside of the sump? Should it be so that the down-turned 90 is 1/4" from the bottom of the sump, like in the overflow?

[uncleof6]

What 1/2" bulkhead? Leave a good 3/4 - 1" gap below the elbow...the same as it should be in the overflow...

[jharding08]

Originally Posted by uncleof6

What 1/2" bulkhead? Leave a good 3/4 - 1" gap below the elbow...the same as it should be in the overflow...

Sorry, meant 1 1/2" bulkhead. I am doing the Iwaki install this weekend. Wish me luck (especially with cutting the hole in the acrylic with a right angle drill).

Any feedback on if I should run the top of the outlet horizontally to the center of the tank or just put the outlet 45 in line with the pump on the right side (facing the tank) of the tank?

[AcroporAddict]

Have you considered just replacing your current pump with one of the much quieter variable speed DC powered ones instead of this elaborate relocation scheme?

Beananimal's review of the Waveline 5000:

http://www.beananimal.com/other/wave...d-dc-pump.aspx

You could do this in an hour instead of this 7 week long Q & A session you have going on here with no holes in the wall.

[jharding08]

Originally Posted by AcroporAddict

Have you considered just replacing your current pump with one of the much quieter variable speed DC powered ones instead of this elaborate relocation scheme?

Beananimal's review of the Waveline 5000:

http://www.beananimal.com/other/wave...d-dc-pump.aspx

You could do this in an hour instead of this 7 week long Q & A session you have going on here with no holes in the wall.

I'm liking the write up. Would the DC5000 be plumbed with 1", 1.25" or 1.5" plumbing on inlet and outlet?

I'm going to have to have a 'pump yard sale' once I find the right one for my situation

[AcroporAddict]

Originally Posted by jharding08

I'm liking the write up. Would the DC5000 be plumbed with 1", 1.25" or 1.5" plumbing on inlet and outlet?

I'm going to have to have a 'pump yard sale' once I find the right one for my situation

Well, like Uncleof6 said, the wider the pipe, the better the flow, but I don't know specifically what the DC series should be plumbed with. I would suggest contacting the company like beananimal did and asking them. Also, there is a whole series of these pumps that should give you what you need in the way of head hight and flow rate.

I have a 465 gallon SPS reef with an Iwaki 70 on it, and mine is plumbed with 1.5" fittings in and out, although the pump itself has 1" FPT physical inlet/outlet.

If you could go larger, then all the better, and you definitely want to go at least 1 size larger on the inlet side if you are going to have a 90 degree bend between the sump and the inlet of the pump. Less likely to get cavitation that way.

[jharding08]

Originally Posted by AcroporAddict

Well, like Uncleof6 said, the wider the pipe, the better the flow, but I don't know specifically what the DC series should be plumbed with. I would suggest contacting the company like beananimal did and asking them. Also, there is a whole series of these pumps that should give you what you need in the way of head hight and flow rate.

I have a 465 gallon SPS reef with an Iwaki 70 on it, and mine is plumbed with 1.5" fittings in and out, although the pump itself has 1" FPT physical inlet/outlet.

If you could go larger, then all the better, and you definitely want to go at least 1 size larger on the inlet side if you are going to have a 90 degree bend between the sump and the inlet of the pump. Less likely to get cavitation that way.

If I am going to keep the pump in the stand, then I will have to have a 90 off of the sump bulkhead. I am prepared to go with 1.5" for all return line plumbing. I will just have to drill the 1.5" bulkhead hole over top of the 1" bulkhead hole that is there now. Not sure how hard that will be

[jharding08]

Also, how come I can only find the DC-4000, 6000, 10000 and 12000. Is there a DC-5000?

[chrismhaase]

Originally Posted by das75

I've got a Velocity T4, unused for sale, read was to be one of the most quite pumps available for external.

I have this pending question to with plans to do a 150 or 180 display. I need it to be absolutely silent as it will be in the living room. Wife won't approve an already questionable 3rd tank startup, that is also the largest...

What is the quietest external pump??

[chrismhaase]

Originally Posted by uncleof6

Yeah clean works, and I violate my own advice at times, depending on "the client is always right" concept....

Uncle - do you recommend this design or are you saying that this is one of those customers are always right?

[AcroporAddict]

Originally Posted by jharding08

Also, how come I can only find the DC-4000, 6000, 10000 and 12000. Is there a DC-5000?

http://www.tbaquatics.com/index.php?...FQIT7Aod51oA6w


You'll find that most of these Asian made DC pumps are the same with different branding, like a Blueline pump is a rebranded Pan World, etc.

[uncleof6]

Originally Posted by jharding08

Also, how come I can only find the DC-4000, 6000, 10000 and 12000. Is there a DC-5000?

RLSS upgraded their pumps...the DC-5000 is an older model from the RLSS line. I do not encourage, nor endorse "asian made." It is not the same pump.