STOP Selling These Species! (rant)

[CuzzA]

My fish told me they love their tank and they also said they appreciate the free food they didn't have to work for to survive.

[nuxx]

My tangs anonymously asked if I could remove the other tangs.

[gone fishin]

I see a new reality show "The real tang wives of coral imports."

[nuxx]

Originally Posted by gone fishin

I see a new reality show "The real tang wives of coral imports."

Oh god... my wife would be the first to watch it (((

Purple and Tomini didn't make season 2

Gem, Zebra, Achilles and Hybrid Achilles might be on season 3 with mainstays Black, Yellow, Chevron and YB Blue. YB Blue is the main diva...

[gone fishin]

[nuxx]

Originally Posted by gone fishin

Sh!t gets real when the Tang Police are called in...

[gone fishin]

Bad tangs bad tangs where you going to swim to.

[nuxx]

Thought our Crosshatches would be the Tang Police... ended up being put in their place by the Yellow Bellied Devil...

[gone fishin]

[PIPSTER]

Originally Posted by dcforester1

No I didnt, I sold all my fish, and equipment and then returned them to their families. By the way we are talking a little girl, either you dont have children, or dont remember the "why" stage.

Maybe you misunderstood my post. Of course I have kids (3), and get why questions all the time, but I don't tell them fish have "families".

~Chevrefils~ I think most people are forgetting something. We enjoy a worldwide hobby. There are millions of people who enjoy keeping saltwater fish. However very few species can actually breed in our systems. Even if the die off isn't 90% but 50% were still taking hundreds of millions of fish out of the water for our amusement. These fish have survived the odds to make it to adulthood and will not be able to reproduce. We've essentially established ourselves as top predators on the reef. It doesn't matter how long these fish live in our systems if they cannot breed. I think were turning a blind eye and are pointing fingers at more destructive means but as hobbyists we still have an impact on the whole ecosystem. If the reefs weren't in a massive decline as a whole it would be a different story but unfortunately that is not the case.

I don't think there's anything even slightly destructive about our hobby taking fish or coral out of the oceans. We are by no means the top predators. Geez, there's only 7 billion of us, and 70 trillion of them.
Really, 7 billion sharks eating tons of blue hippos everyday.

I think the point of this thread was about lack of education, particularly about difficult-to-keep species as it relates to our hobby at some LFS...not a springboard for pathiests.

[dcforester1]

Originally Posted by PIPSTER

Maybe you misunderstood my post. Of course I have kids (3), and get why questions all the time, but I don't tell them fish have "families".



I don't think there's anything even slightly destructive about our hobby taking fish or coral out of the oceans. We are by no means the top predators. Geez, there's only 7 billion of us, and 70 trillion of them.
Really, 7 billion sharks eating tons of blue hippos everyday.

I think the point of this thread was about lack of education, particularly about difficult-to-keep species as it relates to our hobby at some LFS...not a springboard for pathiests.

If you reread my post, thats what my daughter said, I didnt say they have families. I said I never thought of it that way, but thats the way it looks thru a child's eyes. I dont feel guilty about my tank, but wonder what some people might think. I didnt say I even cared, I just wondered.

Derek

[Dmorty217]

My wife often asks me if I feel bad when fish that were newly aquired died since they were taken from the ocean... The answer is always yes. The only way to keep evolving the hobby and captive bred fish is by collecting wild fish and trying to breed them, while learning more and more about their natural enviroment. What it boils down to is if you don't like fish that are collected from the wild, then DON'T buy them. Educate a newbie you see in your LFS, instead of them blindly picking out fish and listening to the LFS

[nuxx]

Originally Posted by Dmorty217

My wife often asks me if I feel bad when fish that were newly aquired died since they were taken from the ocean... The answer is always yes. The only way to keep evolving the hobby and captive bred fish is by collecting wild fish and trying to breed them, while learning more and more about their natural enviroment. What it boils down to is if you don't like fish that are collected from the wild, then DON'T buy them. Educate a newbie you see in your LFS, instead of them blindly picking out fish and listening to the LFS

I kinda feel about that whole situation personally as follows...

The fish would have been caught and sold anyway. If it died on my (your) watch it probably had a much better chance of survival than 99.9% of other fish keepers...

[sde1500]

Originally Posted by BFG

My personal feeling on this topic is that lfs arent the place for a newbie to be educated nor for us to dictate what they, the lfs, should do or dont. It is a business enterprise, profit matter to them and time is valuable. But every reefer need to play a part. Every reefer need to stand up and make themselves count. Make it known to your colleague, your friend, your neighbour or your family that, yes, you are involved and are able to help a newbie to get his/her information correctly. Be a mentor, guide them into this hobby correctly and responsibly.

I would have to disagree with this. A good LFS should make it a point to educate customers. No matter how popular internet sources are, I feel people will always appreciate speaking in person with someone, and learning from them. My LFS has a lounge area, and there are constantly people sitting on the couches talking. I went there when I knew very little, even after reading this site a lot. The workers were happy to help. Im sure they would appreciate having an educated clientele much more than know nothings that buy fish they can't keep. Most store owners have tanks themselves I'm sure, so going to the LFS should be just like talking to fellow refers here.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by sde1500

. edited . . . A good LFS should make it a point to educate customers.

What percentage of LFS are good LFS? From reading this board for ten years, I see far too many new to the hobby folks taken advantage of by improper LFS information.

[sde1500]

Originally Posted by snorvich

What percentage of LFS are good LFS? From reading this board for ten years, I see far too many new to the hobby folks taken advantage of by improper LFS information.

I'd be willing to bet a higher percentage than what this site thinks. People are always more likely to speak up after a bad experience than a good one.

[rssjsb]

Originally Posted by dcforester1

A good book that was given to me was the Contentious Marine Aquarius ??Derek.

This is the funniest typo I've seen in a while - and I make a lot. The book is the Conscientious Marine Aquarists, and I've used it a lot.

If there were a book out there teaching how to be a Contentious Marine Aquarist it would explain a lot of what goes on here at RC.

[dcforester1]

Thats what happens when typing on an iPhone without glasses, I have had worse. LOL


Derek

[Dmorty217]

Originally Posted by sde1500

I'd be willing to bet a higher percentage than what this site thinks. People are always more likely to speak up after a bad experience than a good one.

So instead of 2% of all the LFS in the USA being "good" it's 5%?? The number won't get much higher than that and if you think so then you haven't been to many LFS. Everytime I travel I go to several LFS and I can tell you that there aren't many I would go to again. I guess it depends on what your definition of "good" is. There are only 1% of LFS that carry a large selection of fish that are healthy and eating, and have knowledgable staff. If rare fish is also a requirement then we are talking about less than 1%

[CuzzA]

That's funny. I'm in Islamorada right now as I type this, staying at a rental of one of the popular collectors down here and he would beg to differ. Shark pool. Fish runs. Coral tanks. Everything is alive and well here.

So if a fish store is killing 99% of the fish they buy, I would imagine they'll be out of business real quick. And one persons experience working at one LFS doesn't say much.

Also just stop and think about how asinine that figure is. 99% of fish collected are dead within 2 weeks? If that were the case, fish would cost a hell of a lot more than they do. Otherwise no one would get in this business.

Shark pool.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1435503809.464565.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1435503829.528363.jpg

Now this fish on the other hand is 100% dead. He was also really delicious.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1435503901.544489.jpg

This fish is an Ocean Tally (Triggerfish) if anyone is wondering.

[Dmorty217]

Originally Posted by cnhxgh

having worked at a LFS and visited wholesale operations in Miami and Massachuttes, i can tell you that 99 out of a 100 fish caught for this hobby do not live past 2 weeks; regardless of the fish. imo, these "save this fish" threads are misguided at best.

I have worked for LFS and a wholesaler and took care of 10's of thousands of fish and shipped them out and I can tell you this is as far off from reality as it gets. I would have less than 10 fish total die per day in systems with thousands of fish in them. Maybe you worked for really poor wholesalers or no one knew what they were doing but 99 out of 100 fish do not die within 2 weeks... That's just poor info and not factual. Something like Peppermint angels is much closer to the 99 out of 100 remark but that's one example and there are 10 other examples I could name but that doesn't mean that's the case with all fish... And isn't. If this was your experience at LFS and wholesalers I feel sorry for you. Transhipped fish don't even have a 99 out of 100 death rate and they are in bags for days sometimes

[Dmorty217]

Originally Posted by CuzzA

That's funny. I'm in Islamorada right now as I type this, staying at a rental of one of the popular collectors down here and he would beg to differ. Shark pool. Fish runs. Coral tanks. Everything is alive and well here.

So if a fish store is killing 99% of the fish they buy, I would imagine they'll be out of business real quick. And one persons experience working at one LFS doesn't say much.

Also just stop and think about how asinine that figure is. 99% of fish collected are dead within 2 weeks? If that were the case, fish would cost a hell of a lot more than they do. Otherwise no one would get in this business.

Shark pool.
Attachment 321778

Attachment 321779

Now this fish on the other hand is 100% dead. He was also really delicious.

Attachment 321780

This fish is an Ocean Tally (Triggerfish) if anyone is wondering.

Thanks for this CuzzA, this has been mentioned in this thread several times now and I'm not sure where someone got this random number from but is far from the truth and honestly after working at a wholesaler and several LFS I take offense to it. I would never be part of a hobby that had death rates that high... Doesn't make sense and is bad for buisness. Also I must have a lot of the "1" fish that do make it past 2 weeks

[gone fishin]

I have not worked in any sort of wholesale or distribution operation, closest I ever came was a Divers den open house. So this just pure speculation on my part. If 99 out of 100 fish were dead within two weeks then I would suspect a whole lot of groups would be yelling all over the place.

[mzkrista]

What really drives me crazy when Lfs sells feather stars, they never survive even with the best intended reefer feeding them. I think they should be banned from being sold

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by gone fishin

I have not worked in any sort of wholesale or distribution operation, closest I ever came was a Divers den open house. So this just pure speculation on my part. If 99 out of 100 fish were dead within two weeks then I would suspect a whole lot of groups would be yelling all over the place.

Actually Live Aquaria and Divers Den track their success rate. When I last had email from Kevin it was in the low 90's (I think I remember 94%). Also, note that if a fish (or coral) dies after being ordered by an LFS, the LFS eats all losses.