*Reef Breeders Photon v2 and T5 installation, testing, and review*

[jason2459]

I actually got individual light PAR and PUR readings and they lined up well with that chart based on the LED ratings.

From that PAR shootout thread:

Originally Posted by jason2459

All of the rest are at 30% individual Channels.

Channel 1 Deep Red 4 Osram 3watt 660nm (edit: Just noticed this was the highest pur rating. Kudos to reef breeders for selecting deep red for the red channel led)
Photon v2 30% red only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% red only by Jason, on Flickr



Channel 2 Green 4 Semi LED 3watt 520nm
Photon v2 30% channel 2 green only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 2 green only by Jason, on Flickr



Channel 3 Royal Blue 20 Cree XT-E 5watt 450nm
Photon v2 30% channel 3 royal blue only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 3 royal blue only by Jason, on Flickr


Channel 4 White 16 Cree XP-E 5watt 5500K
Photon v2 30% channel 4 white only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 4 white only by Jason, on Flickr


Channel 5 Cool Blue 12 Cree XP-E 3watt 480nm
Photon v2 30% channel 5 cool blue only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 5 cool blue only by Jason, on Flickr

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by jason2459

Channel 6 Violet 16 Semi LED 3watt 420nm (Check out that PUR!)
Photon v2 30% channel 5 violet only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 5 violet only by Jason, on Flickr


My Conclusion:
I have to say the Seneye was right there shoulder to shoulder with the Apogee. Both were live readings so constantly changing but well with in 10 of each other and criss crossing. The Seneye also has the edge here in that it also provides the LUX, Spectral range, and PUR. I was skeptical on if the Spectral Range and PUR was accurate but after going through the individual channels I'm feeling pretty comfy with at least the Spectral Ranges. The latest firmware update and the Seneye really make for one heck of a good value for a light meter! I give the edge here to the Seneye for value and features!

[Ron Reefman]

That's why I'd like to know what,if any, PUR vs PAR reading you get just using the green led which based on the info provided, should be very close to zero PUR and still have a much higher PAR level. That is, more than the 2/3 to 3/4 percentage you are getting for PUR vs PAR over all spectrum.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

That's why I'd like to know what,if any, PUR vs PAR reading you get just using the green led which based on the info provided, should be very close to zero PUR and still have a much higher PAR level. That is, more than the 2/3 to 3/4 percentage you are getting for PUR vs PAR over all spectrum.

Great questions and opens up for more analysis.

The Green Channel has low PUR. Comparing the Green vs. Red is good as both are 3watt LEDs and only 2 LEDs per cluster.

Red channel had the highest PUR which makes sense since the RB's are supposed to be 660nm which is right smack on the Chlorphyl B's line.

Channel 1 Deep Red @30% I read a PAR of 7 and a PUR of 93%.
Channel 2 520nm Green @ 30% I read a PAR of 7 as well but a PUR of 33%

Which the Carotenoid green in the PUR graph above has a bit of green at 500nm with a steep drop off. So, 520 green wouldn't hit that so well so makes sense the PUR is so low.

And the Kelvin reading actually fills in some information that backs this up as well.


The White channel which I find yellow had a kelvin reading of 4500 but showed a wider spectrum with a larger amount in the blue green nm and into the yellow/red then the green only. So, it's PUR was a higher % then the green channel with a PUR 56% because it has more wavelengths closer to that 500nm peak but also has a wider range of a full spectrum allowing it to not be green in color. But the fact it includes more toward that blue/green spectrum then the green shows in the PUR and Kelvin reading.

Great questions and as I analyze the readings I'm finding it makes more and more sense.

Edit corrected

[jason2459]

FYI here's the RAW data for PUR and time schedule

[Ron Reefman]

Jason, do I assume correctly that all the PUR, LUX and K readings are from the Seneye sensor?

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

Jason, do I assume correctly that all the PUR, LUX and K readings are from the Seneye sensor?

That is correct and PAR spot checked with the Apogee which lines up together. The Seneye includes three separate sensors for LUX, Spectrum, and PAR. Then calculates PUR based on Spectrum and PAR. Edit: and calculates the Kelvin based on the Spectrum which it fails to do when in the blue side as it reaches infinity. I believe their limit is 10,000 K and fails after that.

[oreo57]

Not to pick a nit .. but all that can be done w/ one sensor "unit" and math..
http://dsp.stackexchange.com/questio...inating-an-ima

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by oreo57

Not to pick a nit .. but all that can be done w/ one sensor "unit" and math..
http://dsp.stackexchange.com/questio...inating-an-ima

Oh, I'm sure. The Universe can be solved through math.

Edit: And I'm not sure if those 3 separate senors work together and the rest is calculated out our if they are indeed 3 separate sensors for each. It's not clear in the description.

Edit: just looked at that link and that is what the Seneye does to figure out the PUR and Kelvin is some math based on the spectrum it sees. I believe I stated that above if not in the PAR shootout thread.

[Editour2]

I was following the thread "RB's Photon V2 is out" and now this thread.
Jason....I roughly have the same tank as you and was considering 2 x photon 32" V2's. I currently have 3 Reeftech LED fixtures rated @ 180 watts using 60 3 watt Cree LEDs in each fixture, (which are now 5 years old), combined with 4X 80 watt T5 bulbs. At the time that I purchased my LED fixtures only 3 colors & channels were available...those being cool white, royal blue and blue. I didn't like the growth or lack thereof and added the 4 x T5's. I am now considering new LED units. Like a lot of other folks I looked into the Radion G4's, Mitras LX7 & Orphek Atlantik V4 series and of course these photon V2's. Each Mitras LX7206 has the same # of LED's (72) and has about 195 watts of power. I considered using 3 units at about $750 each, ($2250 total). The thing that concerns me about only purchasing 2 V2 32" units ($1000) was that each unit has 72 LEDs (like each Mitras unit) with about 220 watts total power. So I was not sure of using 2 of the Photon V2 32" compared to 3 of the Mitras and possibly 4 of the G4's. You have now raised the bar by using 4 of these units.... Obviously part of the appeal on the photons is the price point....$2250 versus $1000 but if you are purchasing 4 of the units then the decision becomes more difficult....$2250 versus $2000. The Mitras has 9 channels and endless programmability versus the Photons, although with 4 units you probably have greater distribution/lightspread. I think 2 units is debatable coverage while 4 is definitely GOT IT COVERED....never mind adding the T5's on top of that. But...just curious why you didn't select 1 of the higher end brands since you still ending up spending higher brand money...

[jason2459]

You're looking at it wrong.

To get the same coverage with a "name brand" fixture you have to double their quantity as well. I could have easily just went with 2 32" Photon V2s and T5s on the outside and would have been just fine.

But. I really like the T5s down the middle. I wanted no doubt about complete coverage absolutely everywhere. I wanted them to be angled in to get reduced bleed out from the tank and focused into the tank. I wanted to reduce disco effects from the Reds and Greens. I wanted to reduce spot lighting and hotspots caused by the whites and blues.

I think I accomplished all those by getting double the amount of fixtures really needed at the same price as getting a normal amount of name brand fixtures with the same high quality LEDs that are included in the Photon V2s. 5w Cree's 3 watt Osram and Semi's. No Bridglux or Epi's like many other black boxes. Absolutely a great bang for the buck.

To compare price properly you have to double their cost as well. Like I was looking at Kessils. Great LEDs. But with the AP700s I'd need 4 of them or 6 of the 360's. Right there is over $3000.

Look at Slief's setup with his Mitras and Kessil combo. That's how you do it. It's an amazing setup and beautiful reef. FULL coverage of LEDs. Same with Sanjay's reef. LEDs EVERYWHERE over top. So, I took their lead and plastered LEDs up in the canopy.

[Editour2]

I understand what you are saying but.........my individual thinking was that the Mitras have 72 LEDs in each unit @ 195 watts in a 13" long unit whereas the Photon 32's have the same # of LEDs @ 220 watts in a 32" long unit. So in essence by simply purchasing 3 of the Mitras you would have a total of 3 x 72 LEDs or 216 LEDs @ roughly 600 watts peak power...as compared to 144 LEDs @ 440 watts peak power in the same 72" long tank. I understand that you went further and now have 288 LEDs & 880 watts peak...but was wondering if the 3 mitras would have accomplished the same for $250 more than you spent on the four V2's. With the possible advantage with the Mitras being greater flexibility in programming, control over the individual colors, 9 channels and light diffusing reflectors. I do understand your thought process though and it is thought provoking.
Perplexing....isn't it?

[oreo57]

Watt ratings are, at best, an approximation. Generally more theoretical than real.
all depends on drive currents..
Mitras uses the Kessil "gimmick" of under-driving all the channels in order to:

GHL’s lighting is the Power Balancing Technology (PBT). They describe this as a way to change your colors without losing out on overall power output. Most lights have their maximum available power only accessed when all color channels are running at 100%. If you reduce a color channel, then you’re not ever going to reach the full power performance.

GHL’s doesn’t run all the color channels at 100% but aims for balance. By using a microcontroller....

It is a fine concept, but it means you "waste" a lot of potential..
Think about it this way..
You have 2 channels running at 50%..say blue and white..
As you use " Power Balancing Technology" and increase the watt output of the white channel the blue channel needs to decrease in power output to match..
Bottom line is when white is at 100% watt output blue needs to be at zero.

on both channels "full" they are only at 50% each..leaving 50% potential at the door..

now this is admittedly a plus and a minus. Saves from increasing output (and burning corals) w/ spectrum shifts but decreases total watt output capability..

. By using a microcontroller, its able to run all color temperature options while maintaining top power output

well top power is a bit misleading..
unless I'm looking at this wrong..

Point is it is freaking hard to compare LED power ratings by marketing statements..and not bashing Mitras, looks to be a fine unit..
They "all do it" for the most part.. There are some that state "real" diode watts, but not many.

Hard to sell a light w// say 50 3W diodes and then state the REAL output is only 2 watts..

[jason2459]

The mitras are a great fixture but you'll also never hit 100% full power either.

[Ron Reefman]

Frank, look at the power levels Jason is running the V2's at. IMHO he has gone way overboard (which is perfectly OK and his right to do) in trying to get good overall coverage. I seriously doubt that most of us would spend the money he has to run fixtures at low power levels to get better coverage (my opinion). But if that is what you are looking for, better coverage, that's cool. If you are looking to grow your coral faster, I think you may be wasting your money.

I had 2 of the old Photons 32" fixtures over my old 180g sps tank and had no issues growing corals. Now I have just 1 of the V2 50" fixtures over my 60"x24"x20" tank and it is even more sps dominate. Now it's only been set up for 6 months, but I'm getting good growth. The coverage front to back could be a bit better. I have some corals growing on the back glass that would probably do better with more light. But over all, I have a 5' tank lit for $610 and grow sps corals just fine. Would 2 Photon V2 50" fixtures cover the tank better? Yes they would. And I'd probably end up running them at something just over 50% of what I run the single fixture to get the same PAR, but spread better over the entire tank.

As I said, I think Jason has gone way over the top with 4 of the V2's and t5's as well. But there is nothing wrong with that, it's his prerogative. I'm just saying it's really not necessary.

BTW, I'm looking very seriously now at the ReeFi-Lab leds. I think I'm going to get one pendant and try it over my frag tank. If I like it I may switch out my old Photon 32 for more ReeFi-Lab fixtures over my 65g shallow reef.

[jason2459]

Yep, I totally agree with Ron.

2x 32'" photons would have done just fine. I've already stated that and why I went the direction I did and very pleased with the results. To me it was worth it and still cheaper or the same price as some high end fixtures.

[Editour2]

Ron,
I'm not concerned so much with growing corals "faster" as much as good growth and good coloration, (overall healthy corals). Of course if I can accomplish the same prerogative by spending $1k as opposed to over $2K I would do that. It's just that sometimes you get what you pay for........I don't want to shell out $1k and then later regret not getting the better lights. I think all discussion is healthy.....this is how we get educated.
Jason,
I kind of like what you did with the double lights but not sure if that is what I would opt to do. I still haven't made up my mind yet.
Frank

[Editour2]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

BTW, I'm looking very seriously now at the ReeFi-Lab leds. I think I'm going to get one pendant and try it over my frag tank. If I like it I may switch out my old Photon 32 for more ReeFi-Lab fixtures over my 65g shallow reef.

Interesting......I like the color spectrum except I would have added some more Blue at the 470 to 480nm range. Never heard of them prior to your post.

[Ron Reefman]

Frank, I agree that discussion here is key to learning and finding new ways to do things.

I have considered adding 2 t5's, 1 in front and 1 behind my led fixture. But mine isn't in a canopy and I haven't found anyway to make adding the t5"s and still have a clean modern look. But all because of Jason, I'm considering a second Photon V2... or maybe a couple of the ReeFi-Lab pendants. Both are $600 expenditures and both would look OK. Although a 2nd Photon would be almost invisible from the front of the tank. And they both could be tipped slightly, the front one towards the back and the back one tipped slightly toward the front. And the back fixture(s) could be a bit more blue giving the tank a slightly thicker look, darker or more blue toward the back as if you were looking through more water. Darn it Jason, now see what you've done!

[jason2459]

Oh, nice, I haven't thought of making the back row different spectrum from the front. I may have to try that. Will have to use two remotes I imagine. If I remember reading right you have to turn off one and turn on the other you want paired and vise versa.

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by jason2459

Oh, nice, I haven't thought of making the back row different spectrum from the front. I may have to try that. Will have to use two remotes I imagine. If I remember reading right you have to turn off one and turn on the other you want paired and vise versa.

Yup, it's one of the features that they have in the remote, but it doesn't work, so it's a PITA! But it might just look really good.

Now if you do it and you love the look, you realize you may well have pushed me into another fixture!

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

Yup, it's one of the features that they have in the remote, but it doesn't work, so it's a PITA! But it might just look really good.

Now if you do it and you love the look, you realize you may well have pushed me into another fixture!

Ha!

I'll have to try it this weekend some time.

[jason2459]

Most recent testing and results with my current light schedule

Originally Posted by jason2459

2nd day of tracking done. With the Apex logging every 10 minutes it definitely had the advantage to register a better number through the hour. The Seneye only logs twice an hour and if the first one was blocked a lot and reports an obviously low bogus number you just hope the 2nd report logged isn't the same. Being able to get on the local interface to get live readings is very valuable if wanting to get accurate PAR numbers plus it gives you the PUR which isn't on the seneye.me cloud yet.

That said, nothing much changed. As I mentioned earlier they both over all have lower numbers the. Yesterday as they don't average things properly throwing out obviously wrong numbers.

And through out even with the logging advantage the Apex PMK was reading much lower PAR numbers. Pretty much what I saw a couple days ago when first putting the PMK in the tank. About a PAR of 20 lower when looking at what was reported to the cloud.

[jason2459]

[steallife904]

Can anyone give an input on the color of the V2s? I have V1s but have always felt they where a bit to white in color appearance for me (even running blue channel much higher than white). Do the V2s have a better blue balance? How do the compare as far as color appearance to radions or the V1s? I have never seen a V2 in person so I just have no idea if it would actually give me the color I want. I have seen the radions and like the color (at least the ones at tanks at my LFS) but not sure if I am ready to spend radion money yet, specially if I can get the color appearance I am looking for in the V2s.