How many of us actually Quarintine???

[reef10]

Corals are one thing, but fish is a completely different story


A lot of undesirable stuff can show up in the chunk of rock the coral is attached to. You could get aptaisa, byropsis, GHA, not to mention unknown pathogens for the coral itself. I have been thinking about plastic bucket I can hang in the tank for QT coral. By being in the tank that would take care of temp and lighting but still have seperate water. All of my corals have been frags so the small size does not matter. An airline tube works for water flow.

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by kevin gu3
I don't quaranteen because I don't see a need to.

To me the main reason to qt is to make sure the rest of your fish don't catch some communicable disease from a newby. The fish that have been in my tank for more than 2 weeks are way too healthy to catch ich from some newcomer. Its just never happens.

Unfortunately it doesn't always work this way. Healthy, long term captive fish can and do get ich from unquarantined new arrivals. Some fish do not, it depends a bit on the species and the tank in question. There are lots of variables. That this has been your experience is notable, but by NO means an indication of the norm across the board.
Terry Siegel posted an article last year about his experience breaking the golden rule. The result was an outbreak in his display, all VERY long term captive fish.

Jim

[Toledofishguy]

Reef10, I was merely trying to make a point that quaranteening fish is very very important, not that qt'ing corals is not.

[hawk66]

The poll numbers are staggering. To outsiders looking into our hobby, they always comment and criticise us for the huge mortality rates in our tanks. It is very hard to argue their points when so many refuse to take the very first and basic steps toward being a responsible hobbyist. The excuses are many, too much money, no room,too lazy, my fish are fine, too much stress, etc,etc, but lets be honest the reason most don't qt is that they look at a $20- $40 dollar fish as desposible in comparison to several thousand into the tank, and are willing to take their (actually the fishes) chances. If I'm wrong please tell me a reason not to QT for the fishes benefit based on scientific facts, or even evidence from a credible source.

[alcmaeon]

WOW

I am also surprised by the poll numbers. They are 100% off what I would have figured for this board. QT was the first thing I was ever told by LFS folks way back when and I have done it ever since. I keep a canister filter running all of the time off my sump so I have a good filter for a QT at all times (and up until a month ago I had not even thought of adding a new fish for over a year). I just grab the 10 gal QT, fill it from the sump, add the filter, a heater and a couple small chunks of liverock out of the sump, acclimate the new fish to that water and add him in. No system break in is needed as the filter and LR are cured and ready to roll. I also FW dip every new fish before adding them to the tank (know your fish though, some may not do well with a FW dip, research, research, research). I don't light the QT but I keep it covered. no light/less light should have a calming affect on a stressed fish. I also use an old CPR bakpak on it. IMO the Bakpaks are junk but they do the job on a 10 gal with 1 fish for a month. I water change the QT from the sump and probably don't need the Bakpak but I have it, might as well use it. If you have spent a few years in the hobby you probably have enough extra equipment kicking around already and if you don't you can buy it all including a tank for under $50. As far as space goes, when I was in a 1 bedroom apartment I stuck the QT on the floor next to the main tank. Of course I was single than, with nobody to complain about my use of space...

Kevin gu3 you mention that you "hammer" the fish again when you put it into the main tank. My method, using water from the main tank sump to fill the QT and water changing from the same source, is going to take most of that stress away. I will agree that there will be some stress on the fish but it will be at a minimum. Much less than what can happen if you ever get a big ICH outbreak and have to pull everyone out.


I agree with that seatbelt example given above: you don't need it 99.999% of the time but if you ever do need it you will need it bad.

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by alcmaeon
WOW


Kevin gu3 you mention that you "hammer" the fish again when you put it into the main tank. My method, using water from the main tank sump to fill the QT and water changing from the same source, is going to take most of that stress away. I will agree that there will be some stress on the fish but it will be at a minimum. Much less than what can happen if you ever get a big ICH outbreak and have to pull everyone out.

Yeah, that kind of blew me away too. Here is the exact quote:

Also, when the qt is over you hammer the fish again transferring it to the new tank. I would suggest that the fish might be much better off going into the new tank in the first place.

Yikes. Completely wrong to say the least. Quarantine procedure done properly is not stressful to the fish involved, and is definitely far less stressful that infecting an entire tank with C. irritans. Furthermore, fish are often nearly starved by the time you get them home. They've been through the collector's hands, the importers hands, the wholesaler and the store. They don't get fed much along the way, which further weakens their immune response. Quarantine allows the keeper to observe the fish, make sure it's accepting prepared foods, and it allows the fish to acclimate and put on weight. Just dumping a fish straight into a display after passing through all the hands mentioned above is very poor husbandry, period. The fish has to deal with established tank mates and their territories, competition for food, etc. All with a stressed immune system. The list goes on.
I'm about done commenting here. I'll save this thread though for future use, it' will save me some typing.

Jim

[Toledofishguy]

Thanks for the support on the qt issue mates, I was beginning to think i was a loner.

[MiddletonMark]

I think people here are confusing QT with some sort of preventative treatment. I don't run meds in my QT, I don't run hyposalinity ... in fact that tank often will match the LFS SG before bringing the fish home - unlike my reef which the fish will need to be acclimated to it's SG [1.026].

I agree as well with the suprise at the #'s ... and shame at how it makes our hobby look. There's legislation on the table now to completely regulate our hobby ...

[ckaldahl]

I have not QTd any fish but I am goiung to start. I know I should but I didn't have a setup and I lived in an apartment. I have been lucky so far, but now that I have the space and a 40 gallon breeder, I am going to QT all my new fish. Also, I am just going to run it as a frag grow out tank when not QTing.
CK

[CaliforniaDreamer]

Wow, also surprised by the numbers. From the responses it looks like the ones who don't QT haven’t YET had a negative experience. When I first got into this hobby I had two bad consequences of not QT'ing. This was before I found this site but I did know better because the same problem affect FW fish but I had been lucky with them. I now QT all fish and most inverts. If I get some shrimp, crabs, snails, or corals that are in water that is very close to my tank water parameters then they get the normal floating bag, water transfer method of acclimation and then into the display. If water parameters are different or if the item is mail order it goes to the QT tank. Like everyone else here has said it is just so much easier to give an animal a good start by using a QT.

[irvin3]

can not belive people do not QT there fish it is foolish.you always see people post on RC. about there sick 99 percent of the problem is that they do not QT. unbeliveable. it is you money. most are just lazy. just my two cents.

[Yose]

it is you money

It's not the money that's the issue. Not taking every precaution to give your animals a good life is negligence. These are lives... That's the issue.

Edit: QT allows you, the keeper, to analyze, treat, and perhaps cure a sick animal. It also eliminates the chance if spreading an infection to your show system.

I quarantined a 4" Discus in a 2.5 gallon for two weeks with no problems, so there's no reason to not be able to qt a marine fish in something that size (unless it's a very large animal). The whole set-up with a filter, pump and an air stone cost me 30 bucks max. If you don't like a 2.5 gallon tank, for 5 bucks you can get a 7 gallon tupperware contianer. It's not about the money.

I have never had a problem with my marine animals but I sure wouldn't take chances with their lives. The moment I buy an animal, I'm making a responsible commitment to it's life. That's not worth risking for any reason. Besides, what can possibly be bad about a little insurance? Just my .02

[Scuba Dog]

When I first started I used a q tank...but after a 80 percent mortaility rate in the q tank i got discouraged and said the heck with it and from then on put them straight into the display, since then i have had a 95 percent survival rate, and have had ick ever...

[Jimbo]

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be a jerk. However, you've been at this a year, and have stocked a grand total of one tank. Quite frankly you have still "just started". Keep going, stock more tanks this way and see what happens.


Jim

[Toledofishguy]

Jimbo you live in fremont cali i see. i was just in fremont ohio. somethings tells me they are worlds apart.

[Flipturn88]

From my experience (which is limited, but truthful), bacterial disease, parasites, and others such as ich are ever-present in the tank, but they do not show up until a fish is stressed. I've seen many cases where one fish will contract a disease in the display tank after months of no problems when stressed for some reason, while the rest of the fish remain unharmed. With that said, I feel that a quarantine tank adds extra stress on a fish and it should only be used in extreme cases when it is the only means for survival for a fish. I have never quarantined any of my fish, and have never had any problems with disease. Granted I do feed garlic daily and keep my number of fish down, but I don't want to risk stressing a fish any more than necessary. I may just be lucky, but this is my experience, and so far so good.

[Jimbo]

Jimbo you live in fremont cali i see. i was just in fremont ohio. somethings tells me they are worlds apart.

I'd imagine they are.

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Flipturn88
From my experience (which is limited, but truthful), bacterial disease, parasites, and others such as ich are ever-present in the tank, but they do not show up until a fish is stressed. I've seen many cases where one fish will contract a disease in the display tank after months of no problems when stressed for some reason, while the rest of the fish remain unharmed. With that said, I feel that a quarantine tank adds extra stress on a fish and it should only be used in extreme cases when it is the only means for survival for a fish. I have never quarantined any of my fish, and have never had any problems with disease. Granted I do feed garlic daily and keep my number of fish down, but I don't want to risk stressing a fish any more than necessary. I may just be lucky, but this is my experience, and so far so good.

No, C. irritans os NOT always present in the tank, any more than clown triggers are always present in your tank. It's not a magical "super" organism. It's an obligate protozoan, this means it MUST be able to carrry out it's live cycle in order to survive in a system. I suggest you read the available scientific papers or articles that have been written on this subject, including the ones linked above.

I had a moving disaster some time back, the temps in the holding buckets with the fish dropped to the low seventies. Did my fish get ich? Nope. Why? Because I never introduced the pathogen into my system. Period.

Jim

[fishdoc11]

Jimbo is correct, ich is not allways present. That's the beauty of not introducing it, you don't have to worry about it:-)
Chris

[hawk66]

What on earth would it take to convince the non-believers that QT is necessary. You have people on this thread alone with 10, 20, 30+ years experience, any fishkeeping book you want to mention(usually in chapter one), the moderators from the desease forum,different scientist within the field, all in a very polite and rational way trying to give information that will go along way in developing our hobby and making it much more enjoyable for people just getting into it.
Yet 75% follow advice from people who, sorry but are just wrong with the facts (ie. ick is always present)
What is great about this forum is that there are so many experts willing to share their knowledge and experience. At the same time there is much misinfomation to be found as well. On this page alone there are 2 contributers who have nearly 5000 posts with a total of 2 years experience between them.
To people just starting out I can only urge you to forget about the poll numbers and use common sense, ask for and follow advice from experienced reefers,books and science. Hopefully we can start to improve the image of this hobby once we get the shameful mortality rates down.

[Freed]

If you nay sayers still say QT is not necesary after reading this article I feel sorry for your fish.or this article

[Freed]

Or here.

I can't find anywhere where it says that ick is always present in an aquarium and waits for a fish to "stress" before it shows up. HHHMMMM!!

[Flipturn88]

HOWEVER...do you quarantine your corals?? Although corals certainly cannot contract ich (not ick), they CAN carry the pathogen when it is at a certain point in the lifecycle--for example when it has dropped off of a fish to breed. The coral does not "catch" ich, but it can live on the surface of the coral. Call me crazy, but unless all corals are quarantined as well, the plan to QT is not 100% effective. I have read many articles, and many have proven this to be the case. Do a search here on RC and you may find a few.

[Freed]

If you are asking me, yes, I do and I believe the articles say to QT your corals, inverts, etc, as well. Don't know who you are referring to though. I am only inserting facts and not willing to argue with anyone on the issue.

[Flipturn88]

I don't want to argue with you at all--or anyone for that matter! I was referring to the "you" as anyone reading this article. I'm sorry if I was not clear on that--no personal attacks from me .