T5s and their life span - Page 3

tomnmaddie · 03/12/2006, 12:21 PM

very interesting thread I am going to be running 4 T5's with 2 175w MH all using IC ballast, but I also have two 4" IC thermo fans venting. will let u know who it goes, funny thing is I have temp prob in the hood and during a 24hr test burn the hightest temp was 79 degrees this with it sitting on the floor in a garage fans running in Florida

zapata41 · 03/12/2006, 12:39 PM

yes, the ambient air in the hood may be low but the temp immediately surrounding the bulbs is much higher, and if left uncooled the stagnent air will cause extra heat for the bulbs reducing the lifespan. also one bad thing with the slr & sls reflectors is that they also trap in alot of air that would narmally rise up off the bulb, so proper cooling is a must for them.

Tim

dhoch · 03/12/2006, 03:57 PM

Tim,

I have 2 fans blowing accross my bulbs (both IC variable speed temp fans)...

The hood is vented at the bottom back with both fans blowing in from the back.....

I don't know if it's the right design or anything, but I don't know what else I would do (other than maybe mount them at either end blowing in.

Dave

zapata41 · 03/12/2006, 04:08 PM

i mounted one 4" fan on one side of my canopy, then used carboard to makes some oakey ductwork so all the air that the fan blew in had to go down the length of the bulbs in order to go out the exhaust duct. seemed to work quite well. as long as your fans are working properly, meaning the temp sensor is good, i have to IC variable fans and both temp sensors broke, then you should be fine, does the air leaving the hood feel warm, this is a good idication of how efficient the fans are working

Tim

tomnmaddie · 03/12/2006, 05:21 PM

The fans are blowing out the center top of the hood with the back of the hood open ie. best air flow that way, and yes the air coming from the fans is warm to the hand :>)

have a pic of the hood in my gallery if interested

zapata41 · 03/12/2006, 08:26 PM

looks good except i dont see the front t5s getting much airflow but unless they are super hot to the touch or are getting black rings around the ends then you are probably fine.

Tim

dhoch · 03/13/2006, 08:33 AM

For those interested I've added a miscellaneous section to my website (http://www.danj.com/reef ) and I'll be updating it on a weekly basis with par readings rather than here...

If there is an interesting piece of information I'll post a new topic here.

Dave

drew22to375 · 03/13/2006, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
I don't know that I would consider using an Icecap on any T5 bulb until further testing shows how much they overheat or shorten bulb life/PAR. FWIW, the IC660 only runs the 80wattT5s at 100watts...this is only a 20% increase and shows a more proportional PAR increase than the 3 & 4' bulbs that are 50% overdriven and only give a 30% boost.

To be on the safe side, it just seems to make sense to use regular spec T5 ballasts (triad, advance, fulham, etc) and simply use 50% more bulbs+ballasts+reflectors if you want more...rather than wasing potential and maybe shortening bulb life with a IC ballast.

I thought icecap is about your only choice for the 80watters. I haven't seen a spec t-5 ballast for the 80watt. There are some out there that are compatible like the workhorse. but do they now make a spec t-5 ballast for the 80 watt bulbs.

Drew..

tomnmaddie · 03/13/2006, 03:15 PM

dhoch

your web site is truely amazing and a wonderful thing to behold. Also your par readings for the T5's really have put me in a cunundrum!!

dhoch · 03/13/2006, 03:18 PM

Tom,

Glad you like the site... I've got a bunch still to add (I'm missing a ton of my soft and SPS corals)... I've also got another miscellaneous article I want to write on power consumption.

Dave

Tomzpc · 03/13/2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhoch
For those interested I've added a miscellaneous section to my website (http://www.danj.com/reef ) and I'll be updating it on a weekly basis with par readings rather than here...

If there is an interesting piece of information I'll post a new topic here.

Dave

Very cool! Thanks for taking the time to share this info.

hahnmeister · 03/13/2006, 11:53 PM

drew22to375
The Icecap overdrives the 80wattT5s (5footers) to 100 watts. There are spec ballasts for the 80watters...Advance makes them...thats for sure...Advance makes everything! Lol. Im not sure of all the others that do...maybe fulham and triad do as well though...

dwdenny · 03/14/2006, 06:34 AM

I thought Triads were advance ballast. lol

ASH · 04/17/2006, 10:08 AM

From IceCap:
zapata41 - " ... I have to IC variable fans and both temp sensors broke ...." Please call IceCap service and we'll either mail you replacement probes or send the fans in and we'll fix them. Dave in service is at 800-742-36227 ext. 25 or e-mail service@icecapinc.com .

A correction - When IceCap states wattage per lamp, the energy the ballast consumes, though small, is nevertheless included. Therefore if a Model 430 runs two 54-watt T5HO lamps and consumes 170-watts, each lamp is getting 1/2 of that less what the ballast consumes. So when you state xyz ballast uses 54-watts or spec, it really uses more than that if we want to go apples to apples.

Andy

snaza · 04/28/2006, 06:10 PM

so what is the actual life of a 54 T5 bulb that is using a standard ballast? no IC

zapata41 · 04/28/2006, 06:50 PM

thanks ASH , i emailed them just now to give them my info

ICECAP has such great Customer Service

Tim

Yu L LI · 04/28/2006, 06:57 PM

If you want the best radiation lumen/watts or par performance for your reef animals, it don't really matter on any brands of lamps and any type of ballast, changes them all in 6 months I would not go more than 8 months.
If you do not have a good meter, it is very easy to tell, put a new bulb of the same kind side by side turn them on and look.
You will able to tell the difference if the bulb is six months or older.

ASH · 04/29/2006, 07:43 AM

T5HO GE 54-watter on an T5HO ballast will last up to 20K hours. For reef applications, 3 years approx. The 6 - 8 month rule only applies if you're roasting your fluorescent lamps (or selling lamps). It was once true of VHO lamps with cheap, conventional billboard application ballasts. In 6 - 9 months they could lose 30% of initial output.

New lamps will always appear brighter and other than new T5HO type lamps, they lose 10% in the 1st 100 hours of use. Add to that, when swapping lamps you start with a salt free lamp and clean reflectors.

Andy

03/12/2006, 12:21 PM	#51
tomnmaddie Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 92	very interesting thread I am going to be running 4 T5's with 2 175w MH all using IC ballast, but I also have two 4" IC thermo fans venting. will let u know who it goes, funny thing is I have temp prob in the hood and during a 24hr test burn the hightest temp was 79 degrees this with it sitting on the floor in a garage fans running in Florida __________________ Tom one must learn to look a big things in a small way and small things in a big way Current Tank Info: 120G reef tank, two 175W MH, 4 T5's HO all icecap, T-3 return,Euro-Reef RS8-1 protien skimmer

03/12/2006, 03:57 PM	#53
dhoch Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,762	Tim, I have 2 fans blowing accross my bulbs (both IC variable speed temp fans)... The hood is vented at the bottom back with both fans blowing in from the back..... I don't know if it's the right design or anything, but I don't know what else I would do (other than maybe mount them at either end blowing in. Dave __________________ Check out my tanks website... click the red box above my post Current Tank Info: 180 gal Acrylic, 29 gal refugium, 40 gal sump, Mag 18 -> 2 Sea Swirls, Tunze 6100, 8 x 80W overdriven T5 Lights, ASM G4 skimmer

03/12/2006, 05:21 PM	#55
tomnmaddie Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 92	The fans are blowing out the center top of the hood with the back of the hood open ie. best air flow that way, and yes the air coming from the fans is warm to the hand :>) have a pic of the hood in my gallery if interested __________________ Tom one must learn to look a big things in a small way and small things in a big way Current Tank Info: 120G reef tank, two 175W MH, 4 T5's HO all icecap, T-3 return,Euro-Reef RS8-1 protien skimmer

03/13/2006, 08:33 AM	#57
dhoch Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,762	For those interested I've added a miscellaneous section to my website (http://www.danj.com/reef ) and I'll be updating it on a weekly basis with par readings rather than here... If there is an interesting piece of information I'll post a new topic here. Dave __________________ Check out my tanks website... click the red box above my post Current Tank Info: 180 gal Acrylic, 29 gal refugium, 40 gal sump, Mag 18 -> 2 Sea Swirls, Tunze 6100, 8 x 80W overdriven T5 Lights, ASM G4 skimmer

03/13/2006, 03:15 PM	#59
tomnmaddie Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 92	dhoch your web site is truely amazing and a wonderful thing to behold. Also your par readings for the T5's really have put me in a cunundrum!! __________________ Tom one must learn to look a big things in a small way and small things in a big way Current Tank Info: 120G reef tank, two 175W MH, 4 T5's HO all icecap, T-3 return,Euro-Reef RS8-1 protien skimmer

03/12/2006, 12:39 PM	#52
zapata41 Moved On Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Humboldt County, CA Posts: 2,024	yes, the ambient air in the hood may be low but the temp immediately surrounding the bulbs is much higher, and if left uncooled the stagnent air will cause extra heat for the bulbs reducing the lifespan. also one bad thing with the slr & sls reflectors is that they also trap in alot of air that would narmally rise up off the bulb, so proper cooling is a must for them. Tim

03/12/2006, 04:08 PM	#54
zapata41 Moved On Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Humboldt County, CA Posts: 2,024	i mounted one 4" fan on one side of my canopy, then used carboard to makes some oakey ductwork so all the air that the fan blew in had to go down the length of the bulbs in order to go out the exhaust duct. seemed to work quite well. as long as your fans are working properly, meaning the temp sensor is good, i have to IC variable fans and both temp sensors broke, then you should be fine, does the air leaving the hood feel warm, this is a good idication of how efficient the fans are working Tim

03/12/2006, 08:26 PM	#56
zapata41 Moved On Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Humboldt County, CA Posts: 2,024	looks good except i dont see the front t5s getting much airflow but unless they are super hot to the touch or are getting black rings around the ends then you are probably fine. Tim

03/13/2006, 03:18 PM	#60
dhoch Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,762	Tom, Glad you like the site... I've got a bunch still to add (I'm missing a ton of my soft and SPS corals)... I've also got another miscellaneous article I want to write on power consumption. Dave __________________ Check out my tanks website... click the red box above my post Current Tank Info: 180 gal Acrylic, 29 gal refugium, 40 gal sump, Mag 18 -> 2 Sea Swirls, Tunze 6100, 8 x 80W overdriven T5 Lights, ASM G4 skimmer

03/13/2006, 11:53 PM	#62
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	drew22to375 The Icecap overdrives the 80wattT5s (5footers) to 100 watts. There are spec ballasts for the 80watters...Advance makes them...thats for sure...Advance makes everything! Lol. Im not sure of all the others that do...maybe fulham and triad do as well though...

03/14/2006, 06:34 AM	#63
dwdenny Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Edinburg, Texas Posts: 1,369	I thought Triads were advance ballast. lol __________________ "Attitude determine altitude" Visit MAAST.org just click the "Red House" Current Tank Info: 40g Breeder in the works

04/17/2006, 10:08 AM	#64
ASH Sponsor Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: NJ, USA Posts: 548	From IceCap: zapata41 - " ... I have to IC variable fans and both temp sensors broke ...." Please call IceCap service and we'll either mail you replacement probes or send the fans in and we'll fix them. Dave in service is at 800-742-36227 ext. 25 or e-mail service@icecapinc.com . A correction - When IceCap states wattage per lamp, the energy the ballast consumes, though small, is nevertheless included. Therefore if a Model 430 runs two 54-watt T5HO lamps and consumes 170-watts, each lamp is getting 1/2 of that less what the ballast consumes. So when you state xyz ballast uses 54-watts or spec, it really uses more than that if we want to go apples to apples. Andy

04/28/2006, 06:10 PM	#65
snaza Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 1,393	so what is the actual life of a 54 T5 bulb that is using a standard ballast? no IC __________________ T5 SPS 60x33x20 Display Tank + 50x16x8 Frag Tank - 10x54W ATI Powermodule \| 2 x Tunze 6205 \| Tunze 6105 \| 2 x modded Tunze 6025 \| Polario 15ML (Frag Tank) \| ATB white cone Skimmer with Airstar 1500 \| WM Ecobak in TLF 550 Current Tank Info: 60x33x20 SPS T5 DT + 52x16x8 FT, 4x2x2, 30x10x8

04/28/2006, 06:50 PM	#66
zapata41 Moved On Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Humboldt County, CA Posts: 2,024	thanks ASH , i emailed them just now to give them my info ICECAP has such great Customer Service Tim

04/28/2006, 06:57 PM	#67
Yu L LI Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los angeles Posts: 207	If you want the best radiation lumen/watts or par performance for your reef animals, it don't really matter on any brands of lamps and any type of ballast, changes them all in 6 months I would not go more than 8 months. If you do not have a good meter, it is very easy to tell, put a new bulb of the same kind side by side turn them on and look. You will able to tell the difference if the bulb is six months or older.

04/29/2006, 07:43 AM	#68
ASH Sponsor Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: NJ, USA Posts: 548	T5HO GE 54-watter on an T5HO ballast will last up to 20K hours. For reef applications, 3 years approx. The 6 - 8 month rule only applies if you're roasting your fluorescent lamps (or selling lamps). It was once true of VHO lamps with cheap, conventional billboard application ballasts. In 6 - 9 months they could lose 30% of initial output. New lamps will always appear brighter and other than new T5HO type lamps, they lose 10% in the 1st 100 hours of use. Add to that, when swapping lamps you start with a salt free lamp and clean reflectors. Andy