Algae Scrubber Advanced

[jalisco]

Perfect, thank you.

I hope I book marked where I read that people with an ATS only system were having to dose nitrates and phosphates as they simply could not feed their tank enough to prevent eventually starving their ATS. That is what led me down the road considering filter socks and even considered a wet/dry to keep the ATS supplied with enough nitrates.

I know taking two years to set up a tank is rediculous and eventually I'll have to fill it with water and embrace trial & error coupled with RC experience.

For standalone ATS filtration would any of you vote for a petco 10 gallon glass tank with a few baffles over any of the commercial sumps that seem to be more geared to multiple forms of filtration and reactors?

Thanks again guys, always appreciate your willingness to share the information that's taken countless years and dollars to amass.

[BCool]

I ran an ats for years just off my overflow. It really is not rocket science, water flow over the screen and get one of this flood grow led's, now you have an ats!

[BCool]

Originally Posted by laverda

Is there any reason a ATS can not be built into an overflow box? I am surprised I have not seen any one do so.
I have a new to me 300 gallon 96x24x30" tank with the overflow in one end. Flow through the overflow will be about 2200 GPH, but could be reduced to around 1500GPH. This would enable me to have a screen approximately 22wide x 27tall", or possible a little wider, if I were to fold it in the middle. Only drawback is it would be lit from one side only. Is that too much flow?
Another option I am thinking about it removing the overflow from inside the tank and building an external one on the same end. Conceivably this could be taller then the 30" tank and be built to allow lighting on both sides of the ATS.
I was thinking a LED like this might be a good set up due to its thin size and being 12x12. http://www.dhgate.com/product/led-gr...999266a23b5c:2 I am guessing the Red:Blue:Orange 7:1:1Ratio would be the best. Any and all feed back is appreciated.

I did this for a few years and it was my most successful reef to date.

[karimwassef]

I've been running an end to end weir ATS for 6 months or so.. been great!



just runs off my halide "offshoot"

[SantaMonica]

are you saying not to use filter foam, polyester pads or polyfilter either?

Correct. Once you see the super thick periphyton that can grow on your rocks once there are enough food particles in the water, you'll understand how the periphyton is pulling out the particles faster than socks, because it covers all the rock surfaces and not just a small reactor.

I have no filters, and can pour in 3 days' worth of food and the water will be clear again in one hour.

starving their ATS

There really is no such thing as a starving scrubber. It's just a scrubber which does not have a need to grow much yet.

That is what led me down the road considering filter socks and even considered a wet/dry to keep the ATS supplied with enough nitrates.

No no no. If you want to supply anything, supply more food particles. Just like the reefs and lakes where the particles can get so thick you can't see your hand at night.

a petco 10 gallon glass tank with a few baffles over any of the commercial sumps that seem to be more geared to multiple forms of filtration and reactors?

Chemically is does not matter what you put a scrubber into. All that matters is light, attachment, and air/water turbulent interface.

[jalisco]

Thanks so much! I feel like I should share some of the $500 I almost spent on a custom sump with you guys.

[wildman926]

Originally Posted by jalisco

I hope I book marked where I read that people with an ATS only system were having to dose nitrates and phosphates as they simply could not feed their tank enough to prevent eventually starving their ATS.

That is a good thing if they can not keep growing hair algae in their ats. The hair algae growth is indicative of the excess nutrients within the system. That means their system has low nutrients, and what is fed is being consumed and processed.

We have tanks to provide a home to our corals and fish, not to grow hair algae in an ats.

[karimwassef]

I don't know about that. My ATS is a life machine. It's a refugium of sorts and generates more food back to the reef.

IMO: If I had an ATS as big as my reef, I think my reef would be even more successful.

[jalisco]

I take back what I said about saving money. Stayed up till 3am designing a sump around the L2 Rev 3 that ain't gonna be cheap but I feel it will optimize the limited space below my tank.

[jalisco]

Hey Floyd,
On the L2 Rev 3; what would you think if I glued in a threaded nipple to the bottom drain instead of o'ring-ing in the male adapter. I could try teflon first instead of gluing but my goal is to shorten the length from the bottom of the ATS to the bottom of the ball valve.

[Floyd R Turbo]

EDITED

I would first try cutting off (some of) the slip end of the adapter. You can get a lot more extra clearance by doing that vs gluing the adapter in, IMO

[MidwesternTexan]

Thought I'd share, no-one on my local board seems to think it's that great- and many of them are now using ATS's

Actually, today is the 8th day since last cleaning,
this is the LED side, the CFL screen (still 'scrubbing') looks about the same:



The flip side, 8th day, LED lit:

[SantaMonica]

Seems fine. Could try to spread the lights out more evenly a bit. Or reduce the screen size.

[MidwesternTexan]

Thanks, I doubt I'll do either though. This works OK for me now.
I'm using the 30W LED light per side, and the screen in the size it came from WallyWorld.

I'm running 2 of these screens simultaneously, about 6" between then, side by side.
The other screen has my Standard 2700K CFL's with dome reflectors- 2 on one side, and one of the other.

I want to Thank you and Turbo for all you have done these last few years on
the subject and advancement of ATS!

[MidwesternTexan]

SM,

I just read your 2008 post from your link.
Again- brilliant, that's why you have the patent rights to this style scrubber I believe?
Not to worry about me, while I'm a DIY'er, I never plan to sell any.

Some of the local reefers have bought your products, and Turbos I think too.
Several have DIY'd like me too.

What was funny- was the things that some of the people were posting about your idea!
I only read the first page of the link so far, but the 'detractors' were hilarious!

Things like:
'Oh, you don't want that stuff to get into your display!' (where my tangs quickly eat it when I feed some to them)
and things like, oh, there's not enough air/water interaction...., etc.
Or the one 'if you want to reduce Phos- you'll have to run GFO'

Oxymoronic comments to say the least!
That bergzy post on the first page was a good one, as were a few others, and yours too of course!

These things work awesome!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by MidwesternTexan

that's why you have the patent rights to this style scrubber I believe?

No one has the patent on the waterfall scrubber, that idea was published publicly for long enough that it is in the public domain permanently

It's the UAS that he has the patent on

Adey has the patent on the dump-bucket scrubber, and the ATS concept in general, but that's also been around long enough that it is public domain

[SantaMonica]

Thanks Texan glad you like the info, and having lived in DFW a while, I know the thinking

As for patents etc, there are many different aspects to the many different styles, some old, some current, and some not published yet. The whole purpose of patents is to publish innovations for the public good, rather than hiding them. This is called the "bargain" and it works pretty well; you publish new stuff to help others forever, and the government grants you protection for a short time.

Waterfalls won't be the same.

[Floyd R Turbo]

So you're honestly telling me that you procured patents at your own expense for the public good?

You can just as easily, and much less expensively (free) publish such information in 1000 places online for the public good, which also helps others forever.

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

[herring_fish]

miss print

[MidwesternTexan]

OK, lets move on, sorry, I wasn't trying to stir any pots!

So far, judging on my DIY set up, 2 side by side screens-
one lit by CFLS, one by those grow light LEDS-

both sides are growing about the same, without any obvious growth differences yet.

Whats nice is the the LED's take up less space than my CFL in dome reflectors,
and still use less wattage overall too, and will keep their spectrum an eternity longer than the household CFL lights.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Thanks for the continued updates!

[Buzz1329]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

Thanks for the continued updates!

Hi Bud,

My V3, L3 is now working OT on my 180. Getting very thick growth of green algae on both sides of screen and am seeing significant reduction of green/brown algae and cyano in DT.

Question: I scrape the screen every other week. In the days after scraping, should I reduce flow/photoperiod on ATS for the first week until algae is once again growing thickly on screens?

Or is this not necessary?

Thanks,

Mike

[Floyd R Turbo]

I never change flow before/after scraping. I don't change lighting either, once you have a pretty mature screen, and it gets growth pretty consistently from one cleaning to the next, you're in "cruise" mode...set and forget

[wildman926]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

I don't know about that. My ATS is a life machine. It's a refugium of sorts and generates more food back to the reef.

IMO: If I had an ATS as big as my reef, I think my reef would be even more successful.

Based on your pics above, your ats is fed directly off of your tank, and have a LARGE area within your ATS to remove the majority of the excess nutrients, and act as a "life machine". This works for YOU. Not everyone has that type of setup, nor the ability to set up an ats in that manner for some reason or another. Most ATS's are fed via a pump, from sump water, where there is not as much life as in the DT.

We all work with what we have, and have to find the balance of what works to keep our tanks clean/free of nuisance algae with the proper feeding to successfully sustain our reefs.

[karimwassef]

Originally Posted by wildman926

Based on your pics above, your ats is fed directly off of your tank, and have a LARGE area within your ATS to remove the majority of the excess nutrients, and act as a "life machine". This works for YOU. Not everyone has that type of setup, nor the ability to set up an ats in that manner for some reason or another. Most ATS's are fed via a pump, from sump water, where there is not as much life as in the DT.

We all work with what we have, and have to find the balance of what works to keep our tanks clean/free of nuisance algae with the proper feeding to successfully sustain our reefs.

No question that every tank is unique with unique needs. I should have said that an ATS could be a life machine in the right setup.

I guess it's a reef-keeping philosophy and it works better with big tanks than small: the DT is really just a window to the prettiest part of our artificial reefs and IMO should be the smallest part. The real "reef machine" is actually the rest of the system that is intentionally hidden because it's not as pretty. That's where a massive refugium, ATS, DSB, cryptic zone, and skimmer keep it healthy.

Nature does the same. With sponges and worms squirming under the pretty colorful corals and the wide stretches of algae against the warmer shoreline... The shallows creating nursing grounds for some babies and the vast ocean surface acting as a massive solar collector and air exchanger for others...

I think we try and replicate the window to the reef because it's so pretty and we get away with a lot!! But a true self sustaining ecosystem needs the uglier bits and I think an ATS is a perfect part of that.

I'm planning on expanding mine to a dedicated waterfall ATS too with a 300W CFL on a 24" x 36" screen. More algae export would rock!!