Vertex Illumina Club

[alanbates12]

Originally Posted by mojo~

I just bought MAcko's 24 in 200 for my 60g cube.

anyone order the UV modules yet? wondered what they looked like. Also you all think I should go with 1 uv ? 2 uv and one red ? just curious . I should have mine this week .

Mojo I think it's 1 uv for every 2'

[alanbates12]

Originally Posted by yongpanda

For those vertex owners, how would you justify purchasing the light as opposed to the competitor lights? The price, with the sale going on is quite high still with the addition of reds and UV modules. The only way I can find to justify a vertex is the ability to add onto the fixture but can't you do that with the new upcoming vega (for an even lower price as well)?

No trying to bash you guys, but rather would like to hear your opinions.

Great Question let me see if I can help you understand a little better. I'll start with some basics. LED Overview, This aquarium light type uses semiconductor technology as its light source. The difficulty in the past (and where many still misunderstand the complexities of LED's) is correct wave length (in nanometers) and ultimately the PUR of the emmiters (PUR = Photosynthetically Usable Radiatiion).
Essentially the best LED Fixtures are not aquarium lights in the traditional sense, even the emitters are not a bulb as many people think. These High End LED Fixtures use complex circuitry to evenly spread voltage over emitters and drivers to control each emitter precisely. Because of this, LED Lights do not loose spectrum quality unlike ALL fluoresent lights.
The emitters utilize certain compounds to provide the essential light energy require.
One way to think of the high end LED Fixtures (not low end LED fixtures which have more in common with an LED flashlight) is that these are computers that emit light placed over your aquarium, which is why certain care should also be provided.
What is also missed by many "lesser" knock off LED fixtures is the drivers/circuitry used to power each emitter. Unlike daisy chaining Christmas lights together, one cannot simply daisy chain an LED emitter without changing voltage and spectrum to each emitter in the chain and it is the circuitry that separates 80% of LED from the 20% that have the correct and expensive drivers to maintain exacting voltages between each emitter.
This is one reason to not consider any LED that uses dozens of emitters to provide the amount of desired light lumens as the circuitry required to properly supply voltage so as to provide more exacting PUR would be considerably cost prohibitive, yet most of the LED fixtures with dozens of emitters are priced well below the cost of providing these drivers;the reason is the LED fixtures are essentially daisy-chained together.
In fact even an emitter from a "better" bin that is simply daisy chaained together will lose emitter quality versus the same emitter that has correct constant current drivers to tie each and every emitter together.
Better would be the LEDs that use fewer quality emitters, yet with better drivers with the end result much better light energy with less electricity used.
So to sum it up it's not necessarily what you see on the outside but the quality of the inside of the fixture and the amount of PUR your get not necessarily PAR. PUR is not easily measured but this is what your wanting in your fixture. After my research I choose the Vertex Illiumina for several reasons, 1st the quality of parts down to the titanium screws that hold the fixture together, the upgradability of the fixture, low power consumption (low power because of the quality drivers and emitters vs the competition. just look at power consumed by each fixture), the control ability with the vlink almost unlimited. No reflectors so I get a more even light spread and no spotlighting effect. Overall just quality and longevity not to mention a 2 year warranty. These are just a few of my likes. Hope this helps
You can do more research on "Aquarium Article Digest"

[acesq]

So is there a consensus as to which model is best for a 48x24x24 SPS tank? The website suggests the 200 will do, but it appears many are opting for the 260. Are those of you with the 260 running them at full power?

[alanbates12]

The 200 is sufficient for a 24" tank but the 260 is suppose to be 10%brighter.

[mojo~]

Originally Posted by alanbates12

Mojo I think it's 1 uv for every 2'

I did read that. but I ordered 2 uv pads and one red one... Premium said they will be and ship on friday. So I should have mine one Monday next week.

I have 2 aux spots so I thought 2 uv on outside and a red in the middle.

[acesq]

Originally Posted by alanbates12

The 200 is sufficient for a 24" tank but the 260 is suppose to be 10%brighter.

Do I need that extra 10% to keep clams on the sand bed? If not, why pay for more light than I'll ever use...

[alanbates12]

Originally Posted by acesq

Do I need that extra 10% to keep clams on the sand bed? If not, why pay for more light than I'll ever use...

You should be fine with the 200. If money is not an issue I'd get the 260 only because you can always dial it back. But don't feel like your cutting yourself short with the 200. The 260 is more for greater than 24" tank. Personally I went with the 260 but it was in my budget, the sale vertex just had, but if not I was going with the 200 myself.

[studentdriver]

Did anyone notice that Vertex is coming out with more powerful 320 and 360 series?

I'm currently using the 200 series illumina and satisfied with it's performance, but of course we all want more light. Am looking into maybe upgrading to the newer series, but after some digging. Have some question below maybe someone or Vertex can help anser.

Vertex touts that the light is built to be easily upgradeable. That's great, but with the price of the mains pads that is not a feasible option. Bulk reef list the main pads for the series 260 at around $250. each. So I take it that the newer 320 and 360 will definitely be more. You multiple the price per pad by how many pads you need for you fixture, and it's like the price of a brand new fixture (plus 2 years of new product warranty). That to me just doesn't make any sense for people looking to upgrade their main pads.

I see this type of upgrade cost with a lot of other companies and it's not just Vertex.

And yet below is what Vertex states.
"Furthermore, any increase in intensity or change of color composition can be achieved in a considerably more cost effective manner, since there will be no need to change the primary boards, which represent the main production costs of the fixture (in some cases up to 70% of the total fixture’s cost) and can be extremely expensive to replace"

So if Vertex is saying that up to 70% of a fixtures total cost is the primary board, why are the main pads so expensive?

And for everyone who thinks that the Aux PADS are inexpensive, It's not like the main pad, it's only 4 LEDs on the pad.

Will Vertex offer a trade in program to offset the cost of the newer pads?

[notclear]

Good observation!

But based on how much they sell for the Aux modules, and with so many more LED's on the main pads, it is hard to believe they can sell the main pads close to or at most 50% more than the Aux modules! I hope they can.

[alanbates12]

Originally Posted by acesq

Do I need that extra 10% to keep clams on the sand bed? If not, why pay for more light than I'll ever use...

Did some more reading and found that the 260 is 30% brighter than the 200.

[yongpanda]

alan- thanks for the insight. But I guess what I'm curious about and what others seem to be asking now is the upgrade-ability option that vertex provides. But isn't this also provided with the radions and the upcoming ai vega where you can customize your led clusters and order them to your liking? Also, AI is also providing wireless control like the vertex.

I also head that the AI upgrade from sol to vega was only like $100-$200, so there is also a cost difference.

So would you vertex owners say that , now that the competition has come up to somewhat the level of the vertex, the only difference you'd see in the vertex vs other competitor's lights is the aesthetics of it all and maybe some progaming differences with their led control?

[acesq]

Originally Posted by alanbates12

Did some more reading and found that the 260 is 30% brighter than the 200.

That's a significant amount. And now Vertex is coming out with the 320 and 360, which I assume are even brighter. For what purpose -- tanks deeper than 30"? I guess I need to determine how much PAR or PUR the 200 produces and make my decision based on that. I don't much like the concept of buying more than I can ever use even if I can throttle back. (And buying for a potential upgrade doesn't make sence for me -- If I upgrade to a deeper tank, it will be longer as well so this purchase will be for a 120 only.) Am I missing something?

[rodneyri]

I read the new versions have the Cree XT-E LEDs in them, should be good

[Padrino]

Post some pics with the illuminas

[alanbates12]

Originally Posted by acesq

That's a significant amount. And now Vertex is coming out with the 320 and 360, which I assume are even brighter. For what purpose -- tanks deeper than 30"? I guess I need to determine how much PAR or PUR the 200 produces and make my decision based on that. I don't much like the concept of buying more than I can ever use even if I can throttle back. (And buying for a potential upgrade doesn't make sence for me -- If I upgrade to a deeper tank, it will be longer as well so this purchase will be for a 120 only.) Am I missing something?

No I don't think your missing anything. Sounds like the 200 may be best for you.

[alanbates12]

Originally Posted by yongpanda

alan- thanks for the insight. But I guess what I'm curious about and what others seem to be asking now is the upgrade-ability option that vertex provides. But isn't this also provided with the radions and the upcoming ai vega where you can customize your led clusters and order them to your liking? Also, AI is also providing wireless control like the vertex.

I also head that the AI upgrade from sol to vega was only like $100-$200, so there is also a cost difference.

So would you vertex owners say that , now that the competition has come up to somewhat the level of the vertex, the only difference you'd see in the vertex vs other competitor's lights is the aesthetics of it all and maybe some programing differences with their led control?

Not aesthetics and there are more differences than what you see Lets compare three LED fixtures, Vertex, AI Sol and Ecotech Radion. Three good fixtures.

Remember what I explained about LEDs and what it takes to power one.
Vertex 32 LEDs per foot at 80W
AI Sol 24 LEDs per foot at 75W
Ecotech 34 LEDs per foot at 120W

Vertex, its ability to overpower high Kelvin 400w MH bulbs
AI Sol, ?
Ecotech,?

Vertex, wireless control
AI Sol, ?
Ecotech, wireless functionality

Vertex, 2 year manufacture warranty.
AI Sol,?
Ecotech,?

? only indicates I could not find the info on there web page. These are three great fixtures but I found more in the Vertex. More LEDs per foot at lower power consumption which indicates great drivers and electronics, warranty, and the controllability with the vlink through the computer is great. Also it does not have reflectors which gives it more even light spread, not spotlighting. Spotlighting can make coral placement more difficult. Not enough light or to much which can lead to bleaching. And the silent fan operation. Just my opinion

[rodneyri]

good compare, would be good to see the list expanded to other LEDs and different categories too..like number of color LED to make the spectrum, PAR at a certain depth, spread, expandability.

some other lights
GHL Mitras 72 LEDs 120w
KR 93SP ??
what else is popular..

[alanbates12]

Originally Posted by rodneyri

good compare, would be good to see the list expanded to other LEDs and different categories too..like number of color LED to make the spectrum, PAR at a certain depth, spread, expandability.

some other lights
GHL Mitras 72 LEDs 120w
KR 93SP ??
what else is popular..

Remember you can have good PAR but not good PUR. PUR is what is usable to the animals. I too would like to see this expanded on. I know lots out there on the red LEDS causing alge growth. Would like to know the spectrum that's causing this. Maybe I'll try to do more search and post it if no one else can. Also explaining the color spectrum and what it's doing inside the tanks would be good

[mojo~]

I will have my vertex tomorrow. I have had the ai and radion. I can say the added red makes a difference in appearance but can't say that it changes growth or anything like that. a little red goes a long way for sure. Now for green, I didn't notice much difference at all in the green. And what little change I did see.didn't really matter.
Its had to compare really. For me I wanted my light close to the tank with no spot lighting . I was g toyed of being blinded by the lights hanging 8 to 12 inches above the tank. Now for some it may not make much difference. I didn't want my little girl looking up at them and hurry her eyes. So for me this was a large factor. Plus adding the UV and red leds will really round off the spectrum nicely. I have had the illumilux strips before and I know they are to notch. So with past history and talking to Jeremy at premium I went with the vertex. Got a good deal on the 2fter as well. I'll ***** some pics when I get it.plus the red and UV pads.

[Stavanger]

Originally Posted by acesq

That's a significant amount. And now Vertex is coming out with the 320 and 360, which I assume are even brighter. For what purpose -- tanks deeper than 30"? I guess I need to determine how much PAR or PUR the 200 produces and make my decision based on that. I don't much like the concept of buying more than I can ever use even if I can throttle back. (And buying for a potential upgrade doesn't make sence for me -- If I upgrade to a deeper tank, it will be longer as well so this purchase will be for a 120 only.) Am I missing something?

Any news regarding the software update for the Uv pads..??

Br Stavanger

[rodneyri]

How do we measure PUR

[DolbyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by notclear

Do you guys want to wait for the Red/Green combo module instead of buying the Red module now? I know it may take nine months for them to release something like the UV module although this time may be a lot shorter!

I will wait though.

Green is such a waste of time.

[alanbates12]

Originally Posted by rodneyri

How do we measure PUR

Found this on the web I hope it helps
PAR and PUR measurements.

Some background is useful as these terms are not as familiar to many hobbyists:

Photosynthetically available radiation (PAR) is defined as the amount of radiant energy available within the approximate spectral range of 350 to 750 nm (Tyler 1966). Instruments commonly used in studies of photosynthesis are PAR meters; that is, they report 400J700 I,h) or total PAR. Photosynthetically usable radiation (PUR) is defined as
the fraction of photosynthetically available radiant
energy of ysuch wavelengths that it can be absorbed by
the algal and plant pigments. Light is selectively absorbed
by most algae in the blue and red regions of the
spectrum, causing the transmitted light to be concentrated
in regions of the spectrum where algal pigment
systems are ineffective at trapping light for photosynthesis
(Sullivan et al. 1984). PUR is necessarily less than
PAR, and PUR will depend on both the pigment complement
of the microalgae and the spectral composition
of the available submersed radiant energy.

It has been suggested that we can calculate PUR through a light calculator and thus have a more precise method of measuring light than PAR. However, I have argued that without knowing the pigment complement of the plants in question, none of which are known............nor have been quantified near as I can tell, maybe I have not searched enough yet, you cannot say much about it. Research also supports this view.

PAR will always be equal to or higher than PUR.
I do not dispute that. PAR meters are also easy to measure with, the methods for measuring specific PUR wavelengths and intensities is not.
Modeling calulators can and do have issues, and need results to verify.

[rodneyri]

Ok, lots to read up on. Ill be measuring my new LED under this and trying to replicate a spectrum close to a MH as possible and measure results on the tank, could i use this to get PUR?

[hagarthefish]

Originally Posted by Stavanger

Any news regarding the software update for the Uv pads..??

Br Stavanger

I've not been told anymore on the possible date, I was gutted when I realised I needed the firmware upade after buying two units and was told two weeks! That was six weeks ago and I have been told a couple of days and then maybe thurs.
We will have to sit this one out with no realistic date to look forward to.