New Vertex Cerebra $699.99 - Intro Price $374.99 - Page 31

ReefCowboy · 07/23/2016, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason2459

They canceled because of the call from them or because of the uncertainty being posted about or because of one individual's remarkably biased articles against vertex?

They pre-ordered 10 units. Only received some and the rest were coming in a week. After this issue has been put forward publicly, the owner has been wanting to hear from Vertex a response to all this before pulling the trigger in the rest.

It was said Vertex is already working on a public statement. I was there when he received a call from them. They assured him the units were final as far as hardware and that there is absolutely no risks associated with its wiring or any other part of the controller.

They garanteed the controller and its parts 100%. Also said all this going on is coming from competitors employees trying to bash the controller's release. Thats a pretty bold statement to be making IMO. How would they prove that?

Im not trying to put anyone in the hot seat from Vertex, but that was said. They are not happy with this going on and are taking legal action against those making unfair statements about the Cerebra...

I guess it will now become an engineering argument(already happening) if these statements are indeed valid.
If the cops from cerebra police show up after this post wanting proof, i took pics of the controller, parts, etc...yes ive seen it.

Salty150 · 07/23/2016, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefCowboy

Also said all this going on is coming from competitors employees trying to bash the controller's release.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there is a lot of truth in that statement...

Competitors helped along with their fan base.

jason2459 · 07/23/2016, 04:02 PM

Interesting. And Vertex could be right and the bars are as safe as any other power bar which none are 100% safe IMO but some are safer then others.

This gets into legal territory and I have no idea how hard or easy it will be for them to find out who is or isn't a Neptune employee. I'd imagine some kind of legal request could be issued for who's on the payroll. No idea. I do know lawyers like to issue letters that hold very little weight but sounds very threatening hoping the other party caves to the requests.

I can tell you right now I have 0 affiliation with any aquarium related company and my entire reefing experience is documented in my tank journal on this site. I love this hobby but I do find people get very passionate about products they purchase.

ReefCowboy · 07/23/2016, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salty150

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there is a lot of truth in that statement...

Competitors helped along with their fan base.

Salty, the point now is not to argue who brought this info forward, but if the wiring is indeed a problem. I guess you dont care about that problem, but some find it valid.

You are a fan, do you even have the controller? Have you had any controller?

ReefCowboy · 07/23/2016, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason2459

Interesting. And Vertex could be right and the bars are as safe as any other power bar which none are 100% safe IMO but some are safer then others.

This gets into legal territory and I have no idea how hard or easy it will be for them to find out who is or isn't a Neptune employee. I'd imagine some kind of legal request could be issued for who's on the payroll. No idea. I do know lawyers like to issue letters that hold very little weight but sounds very threatening hoping the other party caves to the requests.

I can tell you right now I have 0 affiliation with any aquarium related company and my entire reefing experience is documented in my tank journal on this site. I love this hobby but I do find people get very passionate about products they purchase.

I think most likely they would want to check with the article author, since that was how this whole thing started.

cali9dub · 07/23/2016, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slief

Being able to shut the outlets off in the event of a fault is in theory a novel idea but again, it's dependant 100% on the OS being functional and booted as well as the how and what is montitored in the power bars circuits. For the HAL to be effective as the layer doing the protection and fusing, it would require the OS to be fully booted. In the case of a power failure, when the power comes on, the inrush current and voltage spikes could cause damage

https://www.e-consystems.com/blog/linux-android/?p=783

Doesn't the OS need to be booted up to tell the power bar what outlets need to be on or off thus eliminating an inrush? Maybe someone can simulate a power failure with their Cerebra and see if currently programmed "on" outlets actually wait to turn on until the OS is booted or come on before the reboot.

Salty150 · 07/23/2016, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefCowboy

Salty, the point now is not to argue who brought this info forward, but if the wiring is indeed a problem. I guess you dont care about that problem, but some find it valid.

Oh, I am slightly concerned...

I am the one that contacted Vertex directly and asked about it - because I was slightly concerned.

They said they were aware of the "concerns" and forwarded the concerns to their design team in Germany and Vertex would be issuing a statement soon.

However, that does not change the fact that all of this was not brought to light by "concerned citizens" - but by Vertex's competitors, their employees, and fan base.

LXXero · 07/23/2016, 04:49 PM

i think it's a little paranoid to assume their competition is the ones releasing these "damaging" statements

what, like the apex people don't have enough competitors already? where are they trashing the RKL and reefangel and all the other controllers? lol.

most of us are just people trying to decide on our next controller.

i suspect there maybe some people who are a little more "verbal" about these perceived problems than others. but they will need proof that their intentions go above and beyond just that if they really think they're gonna catch some competitor spewing libel....

Salty150 · 07/23/2016, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LXXero

i think it's a little paranoid to assume their competition is the ones releasing these "damaging" statements

what, like the apex people don't have enough competitors already? where are they trashing the RKL and reefangel and all the other controllers? lol.

most of us are just people trying to decide on our next controller.

Neptune tries to trash their competitors constantly... just look at their YouTube videos...

They are always putting down their competition.

Has everyone seen their YouTube video comparing their WAV to the EcoTech MP40 - where they used sound meters to "show" that their WAV was just as quiet as the EcoTech MP40?

However, they were caught by viewers - as the sound level meters they used in the video were a foot+ farther away from their WAV - and a foot+ closer to the MP40 when they took the sound measurements.

How pathetic...

LXXero · 07/23/2016, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salty150

Neptune tries to trash their competitors constantly... just look at their YouTube videos...

They are always putting down their competition.

Has everyone seen their YouTube video comparing their WAV to the EcoTech MP40 - where they used sound meters to "show" that their WAV was just as quiet as the EcoTech MP40?

However, they were caught by viewers - as the sound level meters they used in the video were a foot+ farther away from their WAV - and a foot+ closer to the MP40 when they took the sound measurements.

Neptune is pathetic...

I've seen them trying to say the ecotech pumps have "more wires" in some of their marketing material, or some silly argument that made little sense. It just came off as marketing BS though - it didn't go nearly as far as the article in question, where they're treating the cerebra as if it's some sort of "non-UL certified hazard" which, may be a bit of a stretch.

i haven't seen the sound meter video though.

I'd be curious if said trashing occurred before or after ecotech decided not to make the vectra support apex, lol.

chercm · 07/23/2016, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salty150

Neptune tries to trash their competitors constantly... just look at their YouTube videos...

They are always putting down their competition.

Has everyone seen their YouTube video comparing their WAV to the EcoTech MP40 - where they used sound meters to "show" that their WAV was just as quiet as the EcoTech MP40?

However, they were caught by viewers - as the sound level meters they used in the video were a foot+ farther away from their WAV - and a foot+ closer to the MP40 when they took the sound measurements.

How pathetic...

low class bad batch of crap

ReefCowboy · 07/23/2016, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salty150

Neptune tries to trash their competitors constantly... just look at their YouTube videos...

They are always putting down their competition.

Has everyone seen their YouTube video comparing their WAV to the EcoTech MP40 - where they used sound meters to "show" that their WAV was just as quiet as the EcoTech MP40?

However, they were caught by viewers - as the sound level meters they used in the video were a foot+ farther away from their WAV - and a foot+ closer to the MP40 when they took the sound measurements.

Neptune is pathetic...

I know i will be viewed as a neptune "fanboy", but I like competition. It makes players fight in front of the market, and we(customers)win with that fight. It might not be viewed by everyone as a good thing, but it is fair play in sales.

In regards to Wav vs MP40, i have both and they are awesome pumps. You gotta remember Wavs came trying to take market from Ecotech and again had an aggressive merketing. Just part of business.

Neptune is a present brand, in every part of the hobby, attempting to gather customers. I am in sales, I completely understand that approach.

Look at RAP in NY for example. Neptune had a huge booth, with every module and product for the apex. They were serving margaritas to atendees with the DOS. Everyone thought it was really cool.

Vertex had a brand new controler coming this year. They were not at RAP.

Do you think a company with a leading product will just allow a new competitor come in and take their sales? They will put out a fight. German companies, although have probably some of the best equipment, dont invest in much marketing, especially in the US.

redddogg69 · 07/23/2016, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefCowboy

I know i will be viewed as a neptune "fanboy", but I like competition. It makes players fight in front of the market, and we(customers)win with that fight. It might not be viewed by everyone as a good thing, but it is fair play in sales.

In regards to Wav vs MP40, i have both and they are awesome pumps. You gotta remember Wavs came trying to take market from Ecotech and again had an aggressive merketing. Just part of business.

Neptune is a present brand, in every part of the hobby, attempting to gather customers. I am in sales, I completely understand that approach.

Look at RAP in NY for example. Neptune had a huge booth, with every module and product for the apex. They were serving margaritas to atendees with the DOS. Everyone thought it was really cool.

Vertex had a brand new controler coming this year. They were not at RAP.

Do you think a company with a leading product will just allow a new competitor come in and take their sales? They will put out a fight. German companies, although have probably some of the best equipment, dont invest in much marketing, especially in the US.

Does serving margaritas mean you need to be drunk to buy an Apex? lol. Sorry i couldn't resist.

ReefCowboy · 07/23/2016, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redddogg69

Does serving margaritas mean you need to be drunk to buy an Apex? lol. Sorry i couldn't resist.

Yes, but my house wont burn down...sorry had to say it

redddogg69 · 07/23/2016, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefCowboy

Yes, but my house wont burn down...sorry had to say it

At least not until you leave the oven on or fall asleep while smoking cause your drunk lol.

redddogg69 · 07/23/2016, 05:28 PM

Just found a thread on the other forum that shows the new Apex power bar pulled apart.

ReefCowboy · 07/23/2016, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redddogg69

Just found a thread on the other forum that shows the new Apex power bar pulled apart.

Bring it over, lets tear Neptune apart! Remember though to read it first...if indeed it is rock solid, you will put your controller in deeper trouble

redddogg69 · 07/23/2016, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefCowboy

Bring it over, lets tear Neptune apart!

I don't think RC would allow a link, and i really don't want to save and post them all (have to get ready for work soon). Most of us are members there too anyway.

redddogg69 · 07/23/2016, 05:33 PM

Its not my controller, i just think this will all end up being pants wetting in the end and marketing tactics by neptune.

jason2459 · 07/23/2016, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redddogg69

I don't think RC would allow a link, and i really don't want to save and post them all (have to get ready for work soon). Most of us are members there too anyway.

Could download and repost the pictures.

You can also post the thread title. I'm looking for it.

redddogg69 · 07/23/2016, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason2459

Could download and repost the pictures.

re-read the quote you posted and you'll have your answer.

jason2459 · 07/23/2016, 05:40 PM

Found it. Called. "So I opened up my Apex..."

redddogg69 · 07/23/2016, 05:41 PM

Sorry, i guess i could have posted the thread title, that's my bad.

ReefCowboy · 07/23/2016, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redddogg69

Its not my controller, i just think this will all end up being pants wetting in the end and marketing tactics by neptune.

It could be. Im not siding with Neptune, and appreciate your posts. That is the point of all this, open discussion.

The matter of factis the Cerebra is here, and it is going nowhere. Some will buy it, some wont. If it does have issues, they will fix it im sure. At the end it is an excellent option and i believe many will be happy with it.

redddogg69 · 07/23/2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefCowboy

It could be. Im not siding with Neptune, and appreciate your posts. That is the point of all this, open discussion.

The matter of factis the Cerebra is here, and it is going nowhere. Some will buy it, some wont. If it does have issues, they will fix it im sure. At the end it is an excellent option and i believe many will be happy with it.

I agree. I think that article brought up some valid concerns, however if it is proven wrong, it may be downright slanderous and the author could be liable.

07/23/2016, 04:02 PM	#753
jason2459 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 9,671	Interesting. And Vertex could be right and the bars are as safe as any other power bar which none are 100% safe IMO but some are safer then others. This gets into legal territory and I have no idea how hard or easy it will be for them to find out who is or isn't a Neptune employee. I'd imagine some kind of legal request could be issued for who's on the payroll. No idea. I do know lawyers like to issue letters that hold very little weight but sounds very threatening hoping the other party caves to the requests. I can tell you right now I have 0 affiliation with any aquarium related company and my entire reefing experience is documented in my tank journal on this site. I love this hobby but I do find people get very passionate about products they purchase. __________________ rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. \| 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank

07/23/2016, 05:40 PM	#772
jason2459 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 9,671	Found it. Called. "So I opened up my Apex..." __________________ rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. \| 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank

07/23/2016, 04:49 PM	#758
LXXero Moved On Join Date: May 2016 Location: Colorado Posts: 565	i think it's a little paranoid to assume their competition is the ones releasing these "damaging" statements what, like the apex people don't have enough competitors already? where are they trashing the RKL and reefangel and all the other controllers? lol. most of us are just people trying to decide on our next controller. i suspect there maybe some people who are a little more "verbal" about these perceived problems than others. but they will need proof that their intentions go above and beyond just that if they really think they're gonna catch some competitor spewing libel....

07/23/2016, 05:28 PM	#766
redddogg69 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 237	Just found a thread on the other forum that shows the new Apex power bar pulled apart.

07/23/2016, 05:33 PM	#769
redddogg69 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 237	Its not my controller, i just think this will all end up being pants wetting in the end and marketing tactics by neptune.

07/23/2016, 05:41 PM	#773
redddogg69 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 237	Sorry, i guess i could have posted the thread title, that's my bad.