Melev's new 280g Starfire tank thread - Page 35

jnarowe · 08/04/2006, 03:50 PM

Hmmm...yeah sometimes my fishroom is up to 85F and a bit humid so it can be uncomfortable. My Mg has been right around 1500 and I am not dosing Mg...must be the OceanPure salt and the Kent Reactor!

Regarding the BTUs, have you tried getting the room down to 70F? If you can make that happen during the Summer, I would guess that you have enough BTUs to cover the additional space and maintain 78F. There must be a BTU calculator online somewhere...

MPH · 08/04/2006, 03:52 PM

Marc,

If your room enlargement does not increase the amont of wall exposed to the outside, your AC sound be OK.

Cuby2k · 08/04/2006, 04:25 PM

Very roughly you can figure about 400 SF per ton of cooling with one ton of cooling being 12, 000 BTUH. It depends on many things, the exposed wall / glass area, the internal gain such as equipment/people/lighting and infiltration.

Marc, is the room interior? I guess that's the same question from MPH but will it add more roof area (inside of the room?

For equipment figure 3.41 BTUH/watt of energy. So if you have 2000 Watts of equipment there's 6820 BTUH right there.

Is the rest of the house around it air conditioned? I assume the only wall to the non-conditioned space is the one to the garage with the wall unit in it.

But here is a very simple test; turn the room temp down to 72 deg and see if it holds that temp steady for a few days. If it holds then it's a safe bet that a few extra square feet of area won't bother it much.

Tbduval · 08/04/2006, 04:52 PM

Melev.. I just spoke with a HVAC tech at work and he agrees with MPH & Cuby2k. Hope everything works out!!!

steve68 · 08/04/2006, 05:28 PM

Sorry Marc i ment that u should move the wall not remove it

move it back enough so u can have enough room to do what u want to do.

raddogz · 08/04/2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clkwrk
once a week for 4 weeks ......IMO is the safest way

I will starting my third treatment week probably will be going a slightly lower dosage.

My first two treatments were at double the recommened strength (2) squirts for two hundred millileters of tank water.

I had a pretty fierce investation on my first go around.

melev · 08/04/2006, 05:52 PM

I just got back from the LFS, as I wanted to see how much power his dehumidifiers pulled. Each one used around 750w of power, or 7.5 amps.

I couldn't believe it. My window a/c unit pulls 800w / 8 amps. At this point, I don't see the benefit of adding one, from a monetary standpoint. I think the vent fan in the ceiling is the route I'll end up going.

The fishroom is in the garage area, which formerly was abutting to the livingroom and dining area walls. I walled it off two years ago, with sheetrock on both sides and insulation within the new walls.

Your suggestion that I lower the a/c to 72F or 70F would make the reef too cold, and I'd have to run heaters to compensate. Call me cheap if you like, but with my current electric bill at $480 and this being the hottest month of the year (in Texas, typically), I'm not willing to pay the extra for that test.

I have to say, it is quite tempting to extend the fish room wall out 3' all the way across, including the doorway. That would reduce the area in the garage further, and make the fish room 7 x 10 x 8 / 560 cubic feet. The benefit is a little more space to work in there, and I could have top off and mixing vats in the same room on a permanent basis. Not having saltwater mixing in the kitchen is very appealing, when you consider that I'm mixing up 55g in a big drum on a regular basis. Water temperature in the barrel would be virtually the same as the reef tank, as well as pH.

The house uses a central A/C unit, and I'm keeping that at 77F now. With our humidity, it is right on the edge of being uncomfortable. Fans help substantially. The reef tank isn't sealed off from the house since there is no woodwork.

For now, I'm just thinking out loud. No solid decisions are being made yet.

jnarowe · 08/04/2006, 06:21 PM

I figure if you can drop the temp. in the tank room temporarily to 70F that should be good enough for a test. Your bill is high (IMO) and I can understand why you are sensitive to that issue. I took electrical consumption very seriously when I designed my system and my cost attributed to the tank room is $70/month. Of course, I am in a temperate zone and your house is just this side of ingiting!

No need to take up space in the tank room for water. I have been thinking about moving mine outside to give me room for more tanks inside. WIth some clever plumbing you could put your barrels just about anywhere. Extending the room to store water doesn't make much sense to me, especially when there are so many other things you can do with the space. All I have is a 29 Tall QT and I could really use a frag tank too. Maybe you can figure out a way to lighten the electrical load?

Zoom · 08/04/2006, 06:45 PM

I will not use any dehumidifiers is no winning battle because if you vent them in the same room, they add heat to surrounding area so your A/C will work harder to keep the fish room at 78F.
As for the AEFW do you think it is a predator out there that can eat them? You have good size tank and treating all of the acros in separate tank is going to be a full time job for you , i hope someone comes up with something easy soon to kill those buggers.

steve68 · 08/04/2006, 07:03 PM

i only use dehumidifier in the winter, i have a 2 car garage & i taped in to my AC unit & now the garage stays at a dry 80 & the house at 77 tank does not go any higher then 81 & this week we hit 100 up here & with a 100% humidity it felt like 115, i can only imagine my electric bill next month

melev · 08/04/2006, 07:28 PM

Okay, so now that I know I have tiny beasts scattered about in my acro colonies wreaking havoc, looking at my reef just isn't the same. I was about to start the grill for tonight's dinner and see my tank appears to be white or opaque. Now what's wrong?!

I check the equipment in the back, and everything looks right. I don't dose kalkwasser, and the calcium reactor seems to be running like it always does.

Finally I realize my three BTAs are spawning simultaneously. Trying to film smoke (stills or video) is rather tough, but I did take the time to try to get some footage out of the event. I'll post them later.

I guess that is a good sign when your anemones are willing to get it on during the daylight photo-period.

The last time they did this was in my 29g, almost three years ago to the day! (7/31/03)

Zoom · 08/04/2006, 07:35 PM

I came home once to this but my RBTA was very big after the second spawn in two weeks it kill almost 90% of the tank.

melev · 08/04/2006, 07:37 PM

That is unbelievable. I figured the reef would eat what it could, and the skimmer would take out the rest. That is the first time I've ever read that it would wipe out a tank. I'm stunned, Steve!

jnarowe · 08/04/2006, 07:41 PM

Holy cow...that's a tilt! I wonder if peppermint shrimp would eat the AEFWs?

Zoom · 08/04/2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melev
That is unbelievable. I figured the reef would eat what it could, and the skimmer would take out the rest. That is the first time I've ever read that it would wipe out a tank. I'm stunned, Steve!

I have before and after pictures .
The first time it spawn after i had the RBTA for four years i was at home and did 250Gallons of water change right way and save everything but the second time i was at work when i got home that was the picture of the tank

after that slowly i lost four fish that i had for 6+ years almost lost my Emperor and then RTN none stop. i did over 1000Gallons yes 1000Gallons of water changes in two months trying to get all the gunk out of the tank it was like milky jell cover all over everything.
It kill almost all of my large SPS that i had for almost ten years i had to start like all over again i now have mostly frags about 60 small ones and the tank still not 100% after almost a year.
Before.

And here is a new picture as of 7-7-2006 you see is nothing there but frags.

jnarowe · 08/04/2006, 07:56 PM

Wow! That RBTA would make a nice hat.

Zoom · 08/04/2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jnarowe
Wow! That RBTA would make a nice hat.

It was RIP 22" around.

melev · 08/04/2006, 08:26 PM

I blame the bare bottom.

melev · 08/04/2006, 08:27 PM

Okay, just kidding. I feel bad even joking about it a year later. That must have really hurt, losing animals you'd had for so long, for years and years!

My tank is crystal clear already, but my three don't add up to the one you had. Two spawnings in the same month - that's really surprising.

Zoom · 08/04/2006, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melev
Okay, just kidding. I feel bad even joking about it a year later. That must have really hurt, losing animals you'd had for so long, for years and years!

My tank is crystal clear already, but my three don't add up to the one you had. Two spawnings in the same month - that's really surprising.

Yes i was't expecting to happen again so quickly like two weeks time it was all down hill after that the oxygen level in the tank was so low all the fish was almost dead leaning on there side it was Bad but now i have to wait for all the frag to grow and i hope i don't have any AEFW in my new frags but i will never know for now.
Good luck killing the ones you have.
PS, the new sump working very good the Cheato growing like mad i have to start the trimming soon. thank you for all the good ideas for the sump i wish i had more room for bigger fuge ..

jnarowe · 08/04/2006, 08:43 PM

My GBTA was about 22" when it split into 3. The more I read RC the more scared I get when I see total pros having reef crashing events. The thing about the bare bottom is that reef had little accumulated toxins (in theory) and therefore made a better environment for the RBTA. There's always a question as to whether animals are stimulated to breed because of good conditions, or rather as a survival instinct in bad conditions.

Glad to hear your tank has cleared up Marc!

crvz · 08/04/2006, 09:05 PM

Hey Marc, just saying hello! Thanks for replying to my email yesterday. I sent you a follow up, but its wordy and you probably fell asleep reading it. Anyways, hope the tank comes out clean!

Sir Crabby · 08/05/2006, 11:21 AM

Marc, I've read that the dragon face pipefish not only eats acro flatworms but redbugs also. I,m trying to find were I read it. If I figure it out I'll post it here.

melev · 08/05/2006, 03:42 PM

I guess I need a fleet of those.

jnarowe · 08/05/2006, 05:47 PM

Something interesteing and maybe of some value: Since I put in the Golden Rhomboid Wrasse, I have not seen any of the regular flat worms I discovered in the tank last month.

08/04/2006, 03:50 PM	#851
jnarowe Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 14,710	Hmmm...yeah sometimes my fishroom is up to 85F and a bit humid so it can be uncomfortable. My Mg has been right around 1500 and I am not dosing Mg...must be the OceanPure salt and the Kent Reactor! Regarding the BTUs, have you tried getting the room down to 70F? If you can make that happen during the Summer, I would guess that you have enough BTUs to cover the additional space and maintain 78F. There must be a BTU calculator online somewhere... __________________ Jonathan--Recovering Tankaholic. Current Tank Info: 70g fresh planted

08/04/2006, 03:52 PM	#852
MPH Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Chester County, PA Posts: 129	Marc, If your room enlargement does not increase the amont of wall exposed to the outside, your AC sound be OK. __________________ You can't expect me to remember everything I know! Miles Current Tank Info: 10 & 30 gal FW, 120 gal reef. 150 gal in progress.

08/04/2006, 04:25 PM	#853
Cuby2k Cuby2k Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 982	Very roughly you can figure about 400 SF per ton of cooling with one ton of cooling being 12, 000 BTUH. It depends on many things, the exposed wall / glass area, the internal gain such as equipment/people/lighting and infiltration. Marc, is the room interior? I guess that's the same question from MPH but will it add more roof area (inside of the room? For equipment figure 3.41 BTUH/watt of energy. So if you have 2000 Watts of equipment there's 6820 BTUH right there. Is the rest of the house around it air conditioned? I assume the only wall to the non-conditioned space is the one to the garage with the wall unit in it. But here is a very simple test; turn the room temp down to 72 deg and see if it holds that temp steady for a few days. If it holds then it's a safe bet that a few extra square feet of area won't bother it much. __________________ Rod "Cuby" Current Tank Info: 180 display, 100 gal DIY fuge/sump, DIY skimmer.

08/04/2006, 05:28 PM	#855
steve68 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Piscataway,NJ Posts: 4,058	Sorry Marc i ment that u should move the wall not remove it move it back enough so u can have enough room to do what u want to do. __________________ "Never Give Up Never Surrender" Current Tank Info: 50 Breeder with 250w MH 10k XM bulb & 2 24inch VHO atinic 03,210 gallon Reef tank. 3 250 W MH,MRC CR-2 Reactor & MR-2 Skimmer,150 gallon sump,125 gallon refugium,75 Gallon Frag Tank & adding more water volume every t

08/04/2006, 06:21 PM	#858
jnarowe Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 14,710	I figure if you can drop the temp. in the tank room temporarily to 70F that should be good enough for a test. Your bill is high (IMO) and I can understand why you are sensitive to that issue. I took electrical consumption very seriously when I designed my system and my cost attributed to the tank room is $70/month. Of course, I am in a temperate zone and your house is just this side of ingiting! No need to take up space in the tank room for water. I have been thinking about moving mine outside to give me room for more tanks inside. WIth some clever plumbing you could put your barrels just about anywhere. Extending the room to store water doesn't make much sense to me, especially when there are so many other things you can do with the space. All I have is a 29 Tall QT and I could really use a frag tank too. Maybe you can figure out a way to lighten the electrical load? __________________ Jonathan--Recovering Tankaholic. Current Tank Info: 70g fresh planted

08/04/2006, 04:52 PM	#854
Tbduval Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 369	Melev.. I just spoke with a HVAC tech at work and he agrees with MPH & Cuby2k. Hope everything works out!!!

08/04/2006, 05:52 PM	#857
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I just got back from the LFS, as I wanted to see how much power his dehumidifiers pulled. Each one used around 750w of power, or 7.5 amps. I couldn't believe it. My window a/c unit pulls 800w / 8 amps. At this point, I don't see the benefit of adding one, from a monetary standpoint. I think the vent fan in the ceiling is the route I'll end up going. The fishroom is in the garage area, which formerly was abutting to the livingroom and dining area walls. I walled it off two years ago, with sheetrock on both sides and insulation within the new walls. Your suggestion that I lower the a/c to 72F or 70F would make the reef too cold, and I'd have to run heaters to compensate. Call me cheap if you like, but with my current electric bill at $480 and this being the hottest month of the year (in Texas, typically), I'm not willing to pay the extra for that test. I have to say, it is quite tempting to extend the fish room wall out 3' all the way across, including the doorway. That would reduce the area in the garage further, and make the fish room 7 x 10 x 8 / 560 cubic feet. The benefit is a little more space to work in there, and I could have top off and mixing vats in the same room on a permanent basis. Not having saltwater mixing in the kitchen is very appealing, when you consider that I'm mixing up 55g in a big drum on a regular basis. Water temperature in the barrel would be virtually the same as the reef tank, as well as pH. The house uses a central A/C unit, and I'm keeping that at 77F now. With our humidity, it is right on the edge of being uncomfortable. Fans help substantially. The reef tank isn't sealed off from the house since there is no woodwork. For now, I'm just thinking out loud. No solid decisions are being made yet.

08/04/2006, 06:45 PM	#859
Zoom Premium Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: S.N.J Posts: 5,706	I will not use any dehumidifiers is no winning battle because if you vent them in the same room, they add heat to surrounding area so your A/C will work harder to keep the fish room at 78F. As for the AEFW do you think it is a predator out there that can eat them? You have good size tank and treating all of the acros in separate tank is going to be a full time job for you , i hope someone comes up with something easy soon to kill those buggers.

08/04/2006, 07:03 PM	#860
steve68 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Piscataway,NJ Posts: 4,058	i only use dehumidifier in the winter, i have a 2 car garage & i taped in to my AC unit & now the garage stays at a dry 80 & the house at 77 tank does not go any higher then 81 & this week we hit 100 up here & with a 100% humidity it felt like 115, i can only imagine my electric bill next month __________________ "Never Give Up Never Surrender" Current Tank Info: 50 Breeder with 250w MH 10k XM bulb & 2 24inch VHO atinic 03,210 gallon Reef tank. 3 250 W MH,MRC CR-2 Reactor & MR-2 Skimmer,150 gallon sump,125 gallon refugium,75 Gallon Frag Tank & adding more water volume every t

08/04/2006, 07:28 PM	#861
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Okay, so now that I know I have tiny beasts scattered about in my acro colonies wreaking havoc, looking at my reef just isn't the same. I was about to start the grill for tonight's dinner and see my tank appears to be white or opaque. Now what's wrong?! I check the equipment in the back, and everything looks right. I don't dose kalkwasser, and the calcium reactor seems to be running like it always does. Finally I realize my three BTAs are spawning simultaneously. Trying to film smoke (stills or video) is rather tough, but I did take the time to try to get some footage out of the event. I'll post them later. I guess that is a good sign when your anemones are willing to get it on during the daylight photo-period. The last time they did this was in my 29g, almost three years ago to the day! (7/31/03)

08/04/2006, 07:35 PM	#862
Zoom Premium Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: S.N.J Posts: 5,706	I came home once to this but my RBTA was very big after the second spawn in two weeks it kill almost 90% of the tank.

08/04/2006, 07:37 PM	#863
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	That is unbelievable. I figured the reef would eat what it could, and the skimmer would take out the rest. That is the first time I've ever read that it would wipe out a tank. I'm stunned, Steve!

08/04/2006, 07:41 PM	#864
jnarowe Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 14,710	Holy cow...that's a tilt! I wonder if peppermint shrimp would eat the AEFWs? __________________ Jonathan--Recovering Tankaholic. Current Tank Info: 70g fresh planted

08/04/2006, 07:56 PM	#866
jnarowe Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 14,710	Wow! That RBTA would make a nice hat. __________________ Jonathan--Recovering Tankaholic. Current Tank Info: 70g fresh planted

08/04/2006, 08:26 PM	#868
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I blame the bare bottom.

08/04/2006, 08:27 PM	#869
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Okay, just kidding. I feel bad even joking about it a year later. That must have really hurt, losing animals you'd had for so long, for years and years! My tank is crystal clear already, but my three don't add up to the one you had. Two spawnings in the same month - that's really surprising.

08/04/2006, 08:43 PM	#871
jnarowe Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 14,710	My GBTA was about 22" when it split into 3. The more I read RC the more scared I get when I see total pros having reef crashing events. The thing about the bare bottom is that reef had little accumulated toxins (in theory) and therefore made a better environment for the RBTA. There's always a question as to whether animals are stimulated to breed because of good conditions, or rather as a survival instinct in bad conditions. Glad to hear your tank has cleared up Marc! __________________ Jonathan--Recovering Tankaholic. Current Tank Info: 70g fresh planted

08/04/2006, 09:05 PM	#872
crvz Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: houstonia Posts: 7,989	Hey Marc, just saying hello! Thanks for replying to my email yesterday. I sent you a follow up, but its wordy and you probably fell asleep reading it. Anyways, hope the tank comes out clean! __________________ -Chris- You don't win friends with salad. "Look! They're trying to learn for free!" ... "Use your phony guns as clubs!" Current Tank Info: rectangluar? wet?

08/05/2006, 11:21 AM	#873
Sir Crabby Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 186	Marc, I've read that the dragon face pipefish not only eats acro flatworms but redbugs also. I,m trying to find were I read it. If I figure it out I'll post it here. __________________ "For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, if I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven, such is the rule of Honor." Lamb of God Current Tank Info: 350 gal reef w/ 30gal refugium, 3" sandbed in main tank and refugium, 250 lbs LR, macro algae in fuge & 1lb of LR, assort. SPS, LPS, and zoos, 24 fish in main tank. Dwarf golden eel in fuge.

08/05/2006, 03:42 PM	#874
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I guess I need a fleet of those.

08/05/2006, 05:47 PM	#875
jnarowe Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 14,710	Something interesteing and maybe of some value: Since I put in the Golden Rhomboid Wrasse, I have not seen any of the regular flat worms I discovered in the tank last month. __________________ Jonathan--Recovering Tankaholic. Current Tank Info: 70g fresh planted