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[cvsailer]

I have a 92 gallon FOWLR with the following fish:

2 clowns
1 blue/green chromis
1 convict blenny
1 Kaudern cardinal
1 foxface rabbit
1 Vrolik wrasse
1 Royal gamma basslet
1 blue spotted puffer

Can I safely add the Pygmy (Cherub) Angelfish? I'm concerned about it's potential aggressive behavior, although I'm desperately trying to add some rich blue color to the tank (tank too small for Tangs). Any advice would be great. I apologize if you saw this post in the Fish Only/Aggressive tanks forum. I'm simply trying to get as many opinions as I can. Thx!

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by cvsailer

I have a 92 gallon FOWLR with the following fish:

2 clowns
1 blue/green chromis
1 convict blenny
1 Kaudern cardinal
1 foxface rabbit
1 Vrolik wrasse
1 Royal gamma basslet
1 blue spotted puffer

Can I safely add the Pygmy (Cherub) Angelfish? I'm concerned about it's potential aggressive behavior, although I'm desperately trying to add some rich blue color to the tank (tank too small for Tangs). Any advice would be great. I apologize if you saw this post in the Fish Only/Aggressive tanks forum. I'm simply trying to get as many opinions as I can. Thx!

Should not be a problem but I would add it last; questions asked in other threads or forum do not pose a problem for me. The criteria I use are a little different than anecdotal evidence since I try to project whether a stocking list will be viable 5 years hence.

[octagon]

Clarified fish list

The tank is a 4'x2'x2' 120g tank. In the basement there is a large sump that holds about 40g when running, and attached to it is a 75g setup as a refugium with macro algae and live rock. The plan would be either a mixed reef or going to all SPS

Fish list in order of addition

2 female Lamarck Angels (inherited)

Yellow Watchman Goby + Pistol Shrimp

Starry Blenny

3 Azure Damselfish (currently have already, in another tank)

6 line Wrasse

Tank arranged with spires and territory for above

1 Yellow Tang (added last)

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by octagon

Clarified fish list

The tank is a 4'x2'x2' 120g tank. In the basement there is a large sump that holds about 40g when running, and attached to it is a 75g setup as a refugium with macro algae and live rock. The plan would be either a mixed reef or going to all SPS

Fish list in order of addition

2 female Lamarck Angels (inherited)

Yellow Watchman Goby + Pistol Shrimp

Starry Blenny

3 Azure Damselfish (currently have already, in another tank)

6 line Wrasse

Tank arranged with spires and territory for above

1 Yellow Tang (added last)

Should be ok, but note that the damsel fish and six line wrasse will limit future additions.

[Dan90]

New list. I believe this will be fine. I have a 90G and want mixed reef. 90lbs LR.

Coral so far:
1 Red Sun Coral
1 Purple tip Frogspawn

Inverts:
2 cleaner shrimp
1 Flourecent vase sponge
1 pin cushion urchin

Fish:

1 Blue reef chromis

want list:

Invert

1 Purple tip anemone

Coral:

undetermined

Fish:

1 Twinspot Golby
1 pair mated OC clowns
1 Coral beauty
1 Blue mandrin once tank is over year old.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Dan90

New list. I believe this will be fine. I have a 90G and want mixed reef. 90lbs LR.

Coral so far:
1 Red Sun Coral
1 Purple tip Frogspawn

Inverts:
2 cleaner shrimp
1 Flourecent vase sponge
1 pin cushion urchin

Fish:

1 Blue reef chromis

want list:

Invert

1 Purple tip anemone

Coral:

undetermined

Fish:

1 Twinspot Golby the odds of keeping this fish successfully are poor
1 pair mated OC clowns
1 Coral beauty
1 Blue mandrin once tank is over year old.

[stryke297]

10 gallon tank with 12 gallon bioload (2 gallons in fuge and sump).
1.5inch sand bed
15ish lbs of liverock
CUC/inverts :
Various snails probably. 15 small ones, several hermits.

Dream: love the crabs, love crawly skittery things in my tank. Id like yo add some shrimp,probably cant get anymore crabs don't want a tank of death, ive got plenty of extra shells but I think ive been lucky so far,my crabs aren't violent.
Id like a small clown/anemonefish or two(probably. Just one) and an anemone to host it
A pistol shrimp-goby pair.
probably. Don't have room for anything else, not sure which fish are very small.
Some plants. Or small coral.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by stryke297

10 gallon tank with 12 gallon bioload (2 gallons in fuge and sump).
1.5inch sand bed
15ish lbs of liverock
CUC/inverts :
Various snails probably. 15 small ones, several hermits.

Dream: love the crabs, love crawly skittery things in my tank. Id like yo add some shrimp,probably cant get anymore crabs don't want a tank of death, ive got plenty of extra shells but I think ive been lucky so far,my crabs aren't violent.
Id like a small clown/anemonefish or two(probably. Just one) and an anemone to host it
A pistol shrimp-goby pair.
probably. Don't have room for anything else, not sure which fish are very small.
Some plants. Or small coral.

Your tank will sustain a shrimp/goby pair. It is not large enough for clownfish or anemones.

[bwhite33]

Hi Steve,

I saw where you gave a suggested order for stocking, could you take a look please. I'm only planning a small QT so it would be one fish type at a time. Thanks.

75 gallon 36X20X24, 6 inches of sand, with one triangular (10x10x10) ceramic ledge held up by a leg/pillar on each corner of the ledge. This ledge would be about 9 inches from the water surface. Other ceramic rock-scaping, low grotto type, to divide up the tank area and provide hiding areas

Planned stocking:
- Bonded pair of Randall Shrimp Gobies, with shrimp
- Bonded pair Chinstrap Jawfish
- Sun Corals under the ledge (more in the shade)
- Squamosa Clam on the ledge if feasible to do this, using an LED pendant)
- 1 Yellow Assessor(s)
- 1 Pygmy Wrasse
- Maybe an Orchid Dottyback

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by bwhite33

Hi Steve,

I saw where you gave a suggested order for stocking, could you take a look please. I'm only planning a small QT so it would be one fish type at a time. Thanks.

75 gallon 36X20X24, 6 inches of sand, with one triangular (10x10x10) ceramic ledge held up by a leg/pillar on each corner of the ledge. This ledge would be about 9 inches from the water surface. Other ceramic rock-scaping, low grotto type, to divide up the tank area and provide hiding areas

Planned stocking:
- Bonded pair of Randall Shrimp Gobies, with shrimp be sure these are really bonded; shrimp gobies do not like each other unless they are
- Bonded pair Chinstrap Jawfish
- Sun Corals under the ledge (more in the shade) these are "filter feeders" (sort of) and are not photosynthetic
- Squamosa Clam on the ledge if feasible to do this, using an LED pendant)
- 1 Yellow Assessor(s)
- 1 Pygmy Wrasse first
- Maybe an Orchid Dottyback last

[bwhite33]

Thanks

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by bwhite33

Thanks

Always a pleasure

[Vesper6]

Hi all-

Could use some advice about adding some more fish to my tank.

Tank setup: 56 gallon column (30"W x 18"D x 24"H) with approximately 25 lbs of live rock and 30 lbs of reef rock (that is now growing coraline algae/etc).
Filtration: Canister filter running GFO and GAC and a very few bioballs, hang on back Reef Octopus protein skimmer (BH1000).
Lighting: Fluval 15k full sprectrum LED lights.

Existing stock:

Inverts: 12 hermit crabs, 4 turbo snails, ~30-40 dwarf ceriths, ~10 nassarius snails, ~15 florida ceriths, 1 mithrax crab (stowaway), 5 nerite snails
Corals: Hammer, GSP, candycane, anthelia, red mushroom, small patch of zoas.

Fish (about to leave quarantine): Clownfish, juvenile hippo tang (see notes)


History: I got this tank setup/fish at the very beginning of November admist a lot of bad advice from my LFS. I started with 4 fish (tang, clownfish, sixline wrasse, firefish). The sixline died immediately, the firefish got eaten by a mantis shrimp. The tang came down with what looked like Ich so it and the clownfish went into quarantine. They were treated with cupramine & pro and are doing very well. The tang when I got it (from the questionable fish store who sold me this tang knowing my tank size) was starving, and now eats extremely well.

Since the fish went into quarantine, I've been adding corals that are all flourishing. The ich tank fallow period ends next week so I'm anxious to get them back into the tank and finally start acquiring more fish. The tang is still small, but I intend to either give it to someone in the reef society or upgrade to a bigger(longer) tank this year. Currently it's about 3".

Fish I want to add:
- mystery wrasse
- firefish (or a pair?)
- splendid dottyback

Beyond that, I haven't decided on any other fish. The wrasse is the one at the top of my priority list.

Questions, since I'm still pretty new at this:
1) Can I put all of these fish in quarantine together? My quarantine tank is 20 gallons. Having had to wait so long to see fish in my main tank, I'm anxious to get it going and was hoping to quarantine in groups.
2) If I add the above 3(4?) fish, how is my bioload? How many more fish (approx) are going to be OK in this tank?
3) Any other fish recommendations for this setup?

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Vesper6

Hi all-

Actually, this thread is only answered by Reef Central Staff, in this case, me.

Could use some advice about adding some more fish to my tank.

Tank setup: 56 gallon column (30"W x 18"D x 24"H) with approximately 25 lbs of live rock and 30 lbs of reef rock (that is now growing coraline algae/etc).
Filtration: Canister filter running GFO and GAC and a very few bioballs, hang on back Reef Octopus protein skimmer (BH1000).
Lighting: Fluval 15k full sprectrum LED lights.

Existing stock:

Inverts: 12 hermit crabs, 4 turbo snails, ~30-40 dwarf ceriths, ~10 nassarius snails, ~15 florida ceriths, 1 mithrax crab (stowaway), 5 nerite snails FYI, the crabs will kill the snails over time for their shells
Corals: Hammer, GSP, candycane, anthelia, red mushroom, small patch of zoas.

Fish (about to leave quarantine): Clownfish, juvenile hippo tang (see notes)


History: I got this tank setup/fish at the very beginning of November admist a lot of bad advice from my LFS. I started with 4 fish (tang, clownfish, sixline wrasse, firefish). The sixline died immediately, the firefish got eaten by a mantis shrimp. The tang came down with what looked like Ich so it and the clownfish went into quarantine. They were treated with cupramine & pro and are doing very well. The tang when I got it (from the questionable fish store who sold me this tang knowing my tank size) was starving, and now eats extremely well. Unfortunately, the tang will need a much longer and larger tank.

Since the fish went into quarantine, I've been adding corals that are all flourishing. The ich tank fallow period ends next week

while not the subject of this thread, the fallow period of the tank should be 12 weeks. If I reconstruct the timeline of your tank, it has not been that long. And the fish in quarantine should be treated with copper for 4 weeks.

so I'm anxious to get them back into the tank and finally start acquiring more fish. The tang is still small, but I intend to either give it to someone in the reef society or upgrade to a bigger(longer) tank this year. really needs an 8 foot tank for long term viability so if the long term plan is to give it away, now is a good time Currently it's about 3".

Fish I want to add:
- mystery wrasse aggressive and may preclude shrimp and possibly either fish below
- firefish (or a pair?) only one, assuming no dottybacks
- splendid dottyback will limit fish in this sized tank and will intimidate your firefish

Beyond that, I haven't decided on any other fish. The wrasse is the one at the top of my priority list.

Questions, since I'm still pretty new at this:
1) Can I put all of these fish in quarantine together? My quarantine tank is 20 gallons. Having had to wait so long to see fish in my main tank, I'm anxious to get it going and was hoping to quarantine in groups. unfortunately, nothing good happens quickly in this hobby; take it slow, do one fish at a time. Remember the purpose of quarantine is NOT just disease prevention
2) If I add the above 3(4?) fish, how is my bioload? How many more fish (approx) are going to be OK in this tank? bioload is not the limiting factor, it is fish behavior
3) Any other fish recommendations for this setup?

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

[Vesper6]

- I had given my tank a fallow period of 9 weeks as per the ich treatment thread, which ends on 2/3.
- Yup I know about crabs and snails. I was wiilling to accept that risk when getting my CUC from reefcleaners. I'm planning on supplementing the snail population if necessary and have already been providing new shells for crabs. (I've seen some tiny dwarf ceriths they may have already reproduced.)

As far as fish go:
- I had read the mystery wrasse will likely not coexist with shrimp, so I hadn't really planned on any. Will it not coexist with other fish ok? Sounds like the dottyback may be too aggressive though.
- Multiple fish in quarantine: I was reading (thread here?) about some fish getting along better if introduced together, which is what got me on that line of thinking.

[Vesper6]

Correction: I read about the fallow period in a different thread, not the ich treatment one.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Vesper6

- I had given my tank a fallow period of 9 weeks as per the ich treatment thread, which ends on 2/3. Yes, 9 weeks will give ;you a very high chance at wiping out the parasite; 12 weeks is 100% (I wrote the ich treatment thread)
- Yup I know about crabs and snails. I was wiilling to accept that risk when getting my CUC from reefcleaners. I'm planning on supplementing the snail population if necessary and have already been providing new shells for crabs. (I've seen some tiny dwarf ceriths they may have already reproduced.) that is extremely unlikely

As far as fish go:
- I had read the mystery wrasse will likely not coexist with shrimp, so I hadn't really planned on any. Will it not coexist with other fish ok? Sounds like the dottyback may be too aggressive though. mystery wrasses are aggressive towards fish as well. If that is your top priority, you will need to limit the other tank inhabitants; firefish are extremely passive and easily intimidated
- Multiple fish in quarantine: I was reading (thread here?) about some fish getting along better if introduced together, which is what got me on that line of thinking.

my recommendation is always one fish at a time for a variety of reasons: 1/ no intimation problems in a small tank 2/ no sharing of parasites or other diseases 3/ less ammonia management issues

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Vesper6

Correction: I read about the fallow period in a different thread, not the ich treatment one.

no problem, most threads are "quoting" my sticky threads on parasite treatment

[Dan90]

Bummer about the twin spot. I will substitute that fish with a blue spot watcher. Is the Twin Spot just hard for beginners or everyone. I guess my question is can a person be taught to keep this fish or is it just not suited to aquarium life.

[Vesper6]

What would you think about a carpenter's flasher wrasse? It still looks colorful but Liveaquaria lists it as very peaceful/shy. I could get it into the tank early on the stocking list as per your recommendation as most passive -> most aggressive fish.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Dan90

Bummer about the twin spot. I will substitute that fish with a blue spot watcher. Is the Twin Spot just hard for beginners or everyone. I guess my question is can a person be taught to keep this fish or is it just not suited to aquarium life.

In very large tanks with a large surface area of sand, usually with overhangs (they are cryptic) and ideally as a pair, it can be done. But they are very shy and eat from the sand bed primarily and they definitely need a very mature tank. They are considered difficult but not quite expert only.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Vesper6

What would you think about a carpenter's flasher wrasse? It still looks colorful but Liveaquaria lists it as very peaceful/shy. I could get it into the tank early on the stocking list as per your recommendation as most passive -> most aggressive fish.

I can only answer that question with the entire planned stocking list and tank size. They are very active and normally would need about a 75 gallon tank; also no pseudochromis (dottybacks) or mystery wrasse.

[Dan90]

Originally Posted by snorvich

In very large tanks with a large surface area of sand, usually with overhangs (they are cryptic) and ideally as a pair, it can be done. But they are very shy and eat from the sand bed primarily and they definitely need a very mature tank. They are considered difficult but not quite expert only.

Thanks for the tip. I hate that the fish selling population makes so many fish sound like everyone should have it. Thank you again for being here to help us not make those mistakes.

[bwhite33]

Originally Posted by snorvich

In very large tanks with a large surface area of sand, usually with overhangs (they are cryptic) and ideally as a pair, it can be done. But they are very shy and eat from the sand bed primarily and they definitely need a very mature tank. They are considered difficult but not quite expert only.

Steve, is there a "standard" for what a mature sandbed consists of?

Thanks

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by bwhite33

Steve, is there a "standard" for what a mature sandbed consists of?

Thanks

No standard per se, but generally 9 months is regarded as "mature". Success can also be increased with the introduction of "pod piles" which are piles of live rock rubble.