New Lumen Bright Reflector. ... any info on them - Page 36

melev · 03/27/2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bubbletip2
I hear you Marc. I felt the same way after I unloaded my LumenArcs. I had no idea I would want them back so bad just to do some testing.

That would be a good test and I wondered the same thing when we tested the PFO's. They come with like 20ft cords. One thing is for sure is my EVC ballast has a 20ft long or so cord too and the PAR numbers were definitely respectable. So this may just be due to a difference in frequency amongst ballasts.

fijiblue and I were talking today and he had mentioned that he felt 12K Reeflux are frequency specific bulbs and when you fire them with a ballast with a different frequency than what is required they will certainly not fire the same. This makes total sense as to why they look different and measure different on the ballasts I mentioned before.

I think I will inquire more about this...

I may come up with a different way to test that ballast. I'll have to check and see if I have an old Spider reflector stashed away somewhere to test it with the longer cord and with a shorter cord. It won't be fun rigging it temporarily, but the things we do for science...

an411 · 04/06/2008, 06:42 PM

What is the max height that is recommended from the water surface to the water surface. I am running 2 250 reflux 12k on a 120 gallon 24 inch deep tank

kidney514 · 04/06/2008, 06:53 PM

Here is another success with the lumenbright that mike sold me!!!!!

IndyMatt · 04/14/2008, 11:16 AM

These wouldn't work for a 18" wide hood right? I know the reflectors are 15.5" wide and then you add 7" for the mogul socket and you're over the 18" width.

kidney514 · 04/14/2008, 11:27 AM

My hood is 22"

raynist · 04/14/2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IndyMatt
These wouldn't work for a 18" wide hood right? I know the reflectors are 15.5" wide and then you add 7" for the mogul socket and you're over the 18" width.

You could turn the socket to the side.

IndyMatt · 04/14/2008, 11:52 AM

I am a freaking idiot! I haven't gotten these because I thought they wouldn't fit! I will be ordering these right now.

rickyb · 04/14/2008, 12:10 PM

Looking good kidney514.

I went from here:

To here:

and this one is most recent:

IndyMatt · 04/14/2008, 12:13 PM

I forgot is it 14" from the water surface to the bulb or to the bottom of the Lumen bright?

IndyMatt · 04/14/2008, 12:13 PM

I forgot is it 14" from the water surface to the bulb or to the bottom of the Lumen bright?

bubbletip2 · 04/14/2008, 12:19 PM

measurements have always been taken from bulb to water.

IndyMatt · 04/14/2008, 12:26 PM

Excellent these will work great! I have a 14" tall hood.

dja1980 · 04/14/2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bubbletip2
Interstingly enough, a PFO HQI ballast will not fire a 12K Reeflux hard enough. I have tested a 12K Reeflux on a PFO HQI and the numbers were 50% of what they are with a CV ballast or electronic in general. You definitely don't want to run them on a PFO. Another thingthat is different is a PFO HQI ballast gives this bulb a pinkish hue that looks really unnatural.

Quote:

Originally posted by bubbletip2
For reference again regarding PFO HQI ballasts - we were getting numbers that were 450 1" above the surface with 12K bulb 14" above the surface. This test was done with a Lumenarc though so I would imagine at least a 15% - 20% increase if we tested the PFO HQI's under a LumenBright. That would still be more than half less than running the bulb on a CV ballast. PFO HQI's are the biggest waste of money, electric bill wise. Besides they are honking big looking more like a stereo amp than a ballast and man are they heavy.

Tell your buddies to borrow or buy a PAR meter and test their PFO HQI's themselves - they will be pretty shocked when the see the numbers.

Sorry... back to this again. I was doing some playing on Sanjay's site, and I'm confused as to how you guys are getting half the PAR numbers with a PFO HQI ballast than you get with a Coralvue Electronic when Sanjayâ€™s data shows that the PFO HQI ballast produces more PPFD than the Coralvue Electronic.

According to Sanjay's site:
400w CV Electronic Ballast / ReefLux SE 12K Bulb = 125 PPFD
400w PFO HQI Ballast / ReefLux SE 12K Bulb = 159 PPFD

Could the difference be caused by Sanjay using PPFD in his data and you guys using PAR in your data? Honestly, I don't know the difference between the two, but I would assume that the numbers are relational.

Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density VS. Photosynthetically Active Radiation

I'm still planning on using the CV Electronic, but now I'm curious about my original assumption again:

HQI + 12K ReefLux + LA = more par
CV + 12K ReefLux + LA = less par

BUT, when you throw a LB into the equationâ€¦

HQI + 12K ReefLux + LA = equal or less par(?)
CV + 12K ReefLux + LB = equal or more par(?)

IRISSERVICE · 04/14/2008, 01:15 PM

you believe everything Sanjay says...
LOL had to throw that one out there...

melev · 04/14/2008, 01:28 PM

It could be that you are comparing one set of numbers test in air vs another set tested underwater.

JRaquatics · 04/14/2008, 01:35 PM

dja1980, I also agree, don't believe everything you read. Try to do the tests yourself, you will be shocked. You might want to take a listen to the newest Reefcast show which explains a little on this situation.
http://reefcast.com/downloads.php
By the way great show Melev. It is good to see the Reefcast lives on.

bubbletip2 · 04/14/2008, 01:36 PM

That Marc and the fact that PFO ballasts come with 30ft cords or so that can possibly limit how hard the 12K bulb is fired. I wonder if Sanjay cuts his ballasts cords down on his PFO's.

Marc,

I beleive you showed very poor numbers with an HQI ballast as well. Overrated and a waste of energy in my opinion.

Sanjay's measures ppfd through a different meter - Licor and we have been measurring PAR with an Apogee PAR meter. Licor is a bit more precise. The numbers given on either meter are very accurate and repeatable.

I would also have to agree with irisservice wrote in regards to not believing everything you read.

melev · 04/14/2008, 01:38 PM

All I can say is Thanks, JRaquatics.

I'll be doing more tests over the next week or two, and will be posting those when I have them.

I've decided to add one more facet to my tests, in that I will also add a series of measurements with all pumps off in addition to my tests with the pumps on.

JRaquatics · 04/14/2008, 01:43 PM

I never thought of the par # when the pumps were on compared to when they were off till I listened to your show. I am wondering if at certain points the par # increases/ magnifies because of the ripples. (almost like glitter lines). I can't wait to see these tests. Marc, are you also going to test the # with and without glass once you permanetly mount your reflectors?

melev · 04/14/2008, 01:54 PM

I'm going to have to test everything with glass now because my reflectors have glass built in and I don't want to take them apart unless I absolutely have to. And those are glimmer lines, which Eric Borneman talked about in his book Corals. He emphasized how great the light intensity is in the glimmer versus the 'regular' light the corals yet all day long. That burst of light is important, I'd imagine.

melev · 04/14/2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bubbletip2
That Marc and the fact that PFO ballasts come with 30ft cords or so that can possibly limit how hard the 12K bulb is fired. I wonder if Sanjay cuts his ballasts cords down on his PFO's.

Marc,

I beleive you showed very poor numbers with an HQI ballast as well. Overrated and a waste of energy in my opinion.

That is one more thing I need to test - cut the cord to the magnetic ballast after measuring it with the existing cord.

I don't have any HQI ballasts, but someone contacted me last week saying they could bring over an HQI for us to test the numbers with.

dja1980 · 04/14/2008, 02:01 PM

Do the "Episodes" discuss everthing listed right side of the "Downloads" page?

melev · 04/14/2008, 02:05 PM

Somebody answer this person.

dja1980 · 04/14/2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melev
I don't have any HQI ballasts, but someone contacted me last week saying they could bring over an HQI for us to test the numbers with.

That would be fantastic! Is there any way you could test the combos I mentioned above? I doubt there are many people with testing equipment that have both LAs and LBs.

melev · 04/14/2008, 02:16 PM

I have both 10,000K and 12,000K reeflux bulbs that can be tested, assuming the HQI ballast is 250w. The 400w bulbs I have are Radiums and a 15,000K XM.

04/14/2008, 12:10 PM	#883
rickyb Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Coppell, TX Posts: 1,683	Looking good kidney514. I went from here: To here: and this one is most recent: __________________ Reefaholic #9999889888777444899111558 Current Tank Info: 240G Custom Planet Aquariums

04/14/2008, 12:13 PM	#885
IndyMatt Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 568	I forgot is it 14" from the water surface to the bulb or to the bottom of the Lumen bright? Last edited by IndyMatt; 04/14/2008 at 12:25 PM.

04/14/2008, 12:19 PM	#886
bubbletip2 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 736	measurements have always been taken from bulb to water. __________________ 3-250W 12K Reeflux-CV Bllsts-3 Mini LB's,2 54w T5's,Advncd. ballast,2 - VTech MP40Ws,Reeflo Dart & Orca 200,Eshopps 37gsump, Ltrmtr + 1 - top off/alk-ca,RK 2 & AC JR,2 TLF Phosban Rctors,4 Orion fans Current Tank Info: 156G Oceanic SPS Dominant Reef System(L60.5 x W24.5 x H25) - 30g Cube plmbed into DT - 1 LG LB Pndt. - 250w EVC 14K(EVC Ballast) - Panworld(790gph feed)

04/14/2008, 01:15 PM	#889
IRISSERVICE Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Beechhurst,New York Posts: 620	you believe everything Sanjay says... LOL had to throw that one out there... __________________ Tank-125G Starphire Lighting- 4x 60" Reefbrites Skimmer- H&S A200-1250 MRC Sump Refugium---Circulation Tunze Wave Box---Main Pump - Seq3200 3phase W/ VFD Cooling Current Tank Info: 125 gallon Starphire euro braced

04/14/2008, 01:36 PM	#892
bubbletip2 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 736	That Marc and the fact that PFO ballasts come with 30ft cords or so that can possibly limit how hard the 12K bulb is fired. I wonder if Sanjay cuts his ballasts cords down on his PFO's. Marc, I beleive you showed very poor numbers with an HQI ballast as well. Overrated and a waste of energy in my opinion. Sanjay's measures ppfd through a different meter - Licor and we have been measurring PAR with an Apogee PAR meter. Licor is a bit more precise. The numbers given on either meter are very accurate and repeatable. I would also have to agree with irisservice wrote in regards to not believing everything you read. __________________ 3-250W 12K Reeflux-CV Bllsts-3 Mini LB's,2 54w T5's,Advncd. ballast,2 - VTech MP40Ws,Reeflo Dart & Orca 200,Eshopps 37gsump, Ltrmtr + 1 - top off/alk-ca,RK 2 & AC JR,2 TLF Phosban Rctors,4 Orion fans Current Tank Info: 156G Oceanic SPS Dominant Reef System(L60.5 x W24.5 x H25) - 30g Cube plmbed into DT - 1 LG LB Pndt. - 250w EVC 14K(EVC Ballast) - Panworld(790gph feed)

04/06/2008, 06:42 PM	#877
an411 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Derby CT Posts: 2,861	What is the max height that is recommended from the water surface to the water surface. I am running 2 250 reflux 12k on a 120 gallon 24 inch deep tank

04/06/2008, 06:53 PM	#878
kidney514 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brossard, Quebec Posts: 687	Here is another success with the lumenbright that mike sold me!!!!!

04/14/2008, 11:16 AM	#879
IndyMatt Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 568	These wouldn't work for a 18" wide hood right? I know the reflectors are 15.5" wide and then you add 7" for the mogul socket and you're over the 18" width.

04/14/2008, 11:27 AM	#880
kidney514 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brossard, Quebec Posts: 687	My hood is 22"

04/14/2008, 11:52 AM	#882
IndyMatt Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 568	I am a freaking idiot! I haven't gotten these because I thought they wouldn't fit! I will be ordering these right now.

04/14/2008, 12:13 PM	#884
IndyMatt Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 568	I forgot is it 14" from the water surface to the bulb or to the bottom of the Lumen bright?

04/14/2008, 12:26 PM	#887
IndyMatt Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 568	Excellent these will work great! I have a 14" tall hood.

04/14/2008, 01:28 PM	#890
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	It could be that you are comparing one set of numbers test in air vs another set tested underwater.

04/14/2008, 01:35 PM	#891
JRaquatics Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On RC Posts: 3,609	dja1980, I also agree, don't believe everything you read. Try to do the tests yourself, you will be shocked. You might want to take a listen to the newest Reefcast show which explains a little on this situation. http://reefcast.com/downloads.php By the way great show Melev. It is good to see the Reefcast lives on.

04/14/2008, 01:38 PM	#893
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	All I can say is Thanks, JRaquatics. I'll be doing more tests over the next week or two, and will be posting those when I have them. I've decided to add one more facet to my tests, in that I will also add a series of measurements with all pumps off in addition to my tests with the pumps on.

04/14/2008, 01:43 PM	#894
JRaquatics Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On RC Posts: 3,609	I never thought of the par # when the pumps were on compared to when they were off till I listened to your show. I am wondering if at certain points the par # increases/ magnifies because of the ripples. (almost like glitter lines). I can't wait to see these tests. Marc, are you also going to test the # with and without glass once you permanetly mount your reflectors?

04/14/2008, 01:54 PM	#895
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I'm going to have to test everything with glass now because my reflectors have glass built in and I don't want to take them apart unless I absolutely have to. And those are glimmer lines, which Eric Borneman talked about in his book Corals. He emphasized how great the light intensity is in the glimmer versus the 'regular' light the corals yet all day long. That burst of light is important, I'd imagine.

04/14/2008, 02:01 PM	#897
dja1980 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sycamore, IL Posts: 1,375	Do the "Episodes" discuss everthing listed right side of the "Downloads" page?

04/14/2008, 02:05 PM	#898
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Somebody answer this person.

04/14/2008, 02:16 PM	#900
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I have both 10,000K and 12,000K reeflux bulbs that can be tested, assuming the HQI ballast is 250w. The 400w bulbs I have are Radiums and a 15,000K XM.