New EcoTech Marine Vectra Return Pump

[02tts]

Originally Posted by skinsncanes

Who did you speak with at ecotech? Mine are also running in the 130s and the answers I got were so bad I'm half tempted to sell all my ecotech products. My gut tells me the pumps aren't failing, they're just poorly designed. If you run them below 100 percent you won't have issue but at 100 they before heaters.

Ecotech told me to replumb my system because my pumps are too close. I have 3 L1s on the floor, external, three inches apart. In a room that's the ac is set to 64, ambient is 68, with a giant fan blowing over the pumps. The middle L1 is only on 40 percent and isn't hot. I said I don't think you're listening to me, the temp between the pumps is 70, they aren't transferring heat to each other. They just repeated to move them apart over and over. I asked where in the manual it says I shouldn't have purchased three of your pumps, or where they aren't designed to run at 100 percent, or where it says they need to be in a Refridgerator and they just said we recommend moving them. Didn't offer to test them, replace them or anything.

Keep in mine I told them I have 5 radions, 2 mp60, and 3 mp40s. I only run two lights at 30 percent. And only run two of the mp40s and I can't keep my tank under 80.

Also, I used to run my vortechs at 100 percent but they get so hot they'll burn your hand and def heat the glass. I think they allow he pumps to go high to market big numbers but aren't designed for it.




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I agree, and I may need to lower output to 50-70%, we'll see I just know I'm going to have the same issue come new pump. This is extremely upsetting given the premium these guys get for these pumps.

I spoke to Gary and Rebecca, who would speck to their 'techs'.


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[02tts]

Also, when this happens ecotech smart live shows the pump is 'off', yet the pump is running...


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[02tts]

Lowering to 80% makes the alarms go away. Will try 85% tomorrow and increase from there. I suspect it will start screaming at 90%.


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[sleepydoc]

Originally Posted by skinsncanes

Who did you speak with at ecotech? Mine are also running in the 130s and the answers I got were so bad I'm half tempted to sell all my ecotech products. My gut tells me the pumps aren't failing, they're just poorly designed. If you run them below 100 percent you won't have issue but at 100 they before heaters.

Ecotech told me to replumb my system because my pumps are too close. I have 3 L1s on the floor, external, three inches apart. In a room that's the ac is set to 64, ambient is 68, with a giant fan blowing over the pumps. The middle L1 is only on 40 percent and isn't hot. I said I don't think you're listening to me, the temp between the pumps is 70, they aren't transferring heat to each other. They just repeated to move them apart over and over. I asked where in the manual it says I shouldn't have purchased three of your pumps, or where they aren't designed to run at 100 percent, or where it says they need to be in a Refridgerator and they just said we recommend moving them. Didn't offer to test them, replace them or anything.

Keep in mine I told them I have 5 radions, 2 mp60, and 3 mp40s. I only run two lights at 30 percent. And only run two of the mp40s and I can't keep my tank under 80.

Also, I used to run my vortechs at 100 percent but they get so hot they'll burn your hand and def heat the glass. I think they allow he pumps to go high to market big numbers but aren't designed for it.




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Very disappointing response. Sounds like a BS answer to try and find some excuse to cover for a poorly designed product if you ask me. If you looked at the casing, it's just smooth metal, no fins to increase surface area and help dissipate heat, so I'm not surprised they overheat when run externally. Air is not nearly as good a conductor of heat as water so a design that works well submerged could completely fail externally.

Before changing your plumbing, I would try running only 1 of the pumps, or perhaps the 2 outside pumps. You could even remove the middle pump and put a temporary cap on the pipe.

Another thing to try is to measure the temperature of the casing if you have an infrared thermometer.


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[chercm]

Still Waiting for what Tim promised early about apex controlling vectra


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[02tts]

So I ran it now at 85 for 48 hours and all good, ran it all day yesterday at 90% and no alerts so we'll see today.

I'll take casing temperature later today to see what it's at when running at 90%


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[02tts]

Runs at 95% without warnings @ 126 degrees outer casing.

Ecotech hasn't offered up any solutions as of yet.

Extremely disappointed.


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[SPotter]

In addition to repeated temp alerts running on reefcrest I woke up to this noise this morning. Worst part about this is not only does ETM not have an answer, they keep telling me that no one else has complained about temp alerts which just adds insult to injury because I know that's not true!!!

[02tts]

Originally Posted by SPotter

In addition to repeated temp alerts running on reefcrest I woke up to this noise this morning. Worst part about this is not only does ETM not have an answer, they keep telling me that no one else has complained about temp alerts which just adds insult to injury because I know that's not true!!!

Wow that's crazy! Was it even still pumping water out? Sounds like the impeller inside is either stock or hitting the sides...not saying that's what it is of course, just what it sounds like.

I have spoken to 4 techs, no one has documented anything. Latest tech I'm speaking with is JR. I'd hate to say it but they're clueless as to the issue. They should pay one of their techs to fly out to a customer's site to identify what's causing it. I know if I was ETM and making the kind of stupid money they make I would certainly have no problem doing so. They just asked me for pipe lengths and number of 90 degree elbows again, which was already provided. Again, reaching...

This shows the lack of proper testing and QC on their part. Just testing a pump for head pressure with a meter at 1' or 2' doesn't paint the entire real world picture.

Ranting here, sorry.

Anyway, your situation there is much worse than mine though I fear mine is headed in the same direction.

Let us know what comes out of it.


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[SPotter]

Their solution was to just replace the pumps again. This would be the third set of pumps in less than a year. My response to them was replacing doesn't solve the problem.

Casing temp hits 130 in reefcrest at peak.

[02tts]

Originally Posted by SPotter

Their solution was to just replace the pumps again. This would be the third set of pumps in less than a year. My response to them was replacing doesn't solve the problem.

Unreal.

Yeah I have this brand new in the box which I'm sending back to them today. They need to get their act together soon with their pump division, which I'm sure is outsourced overseas.


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[Floyd R Turbo]

I was going to replace a Reeflo Dart/Snapper Hybird with the larger ETM pump, guess I'll just switch it out with the other Reeflo I have still sitting in the box...kind of a bummer, but the Reeflo has ran like a champ so I guess the old "ain't broke" applies...

[SPotter]

Funny you should say that bud because I'm looking at the dart hybrid golds right now. Looks like that might be the direction I head.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Have had a D/S-H running on this tank for pretty much 5 years straight without issue. At one point one of the T5 ballasts kicked the GFI and I thought it was the pump because it seemed to be running hot (just barely too hot to keep hand on it) and they replaced it for free. Replacement is no different and I figured out eventually that it was the ballast, since then it's been running without a hiccup.

I bought a second one figuring it would be best to have an extra one on hand, was going to swap out and keep the used one as the backup, just haven't done it yet. Now planning sump re-build and was going to submerge the ETM L1 but that's out the window now...

[SPotter]

Well not so fast Bud. I haven't seen too many issues with the pumps being used internally.

[Floyd R Turbo]

except they get to 125?

[SPotter]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

except they get to 125?

Mine hit 130! I have not heard of many people complaining about water temp issues running them internally.

[02tts]

Originally Posted by SPotter

Well not so fast Bud. I haven't seen too many issues with the pumps being used internally.

I second this notion. I also have no issues with the (2) M1's I have which are also air cooled.

I have two local folks to me who each have 2 of these pumps but they are submerged. They have had no issues other than a noticeable heat transfer...do the math, if the outer casing is getting (at least for me) to 137 degrees that's got it add 1-3 degrees to the water depending on total water volume, but I would think 1-2 pretty easily. They, unlike me, use chillers to keep their tank at 78.5. Similar size, one is 450G and the other has a 600G total volume.

I think the issue is around either motor capable output, electronics related or heat dissipation. Albeit capable output and heat dissipation go hand in hand but, who knows, maybe they are workhorses and it's just a matter of poor ventilation or inadequate heat transfer, who knows. I'm a lot of things but two things I'm not is an mechanical engineer or a chemist, man just wrapping my head around the calc, alk, mg and precipitation ratios, etc gives me a migraine! Thanks god for folks like Bertoni and TMZ and Randy who have been a tremendous help!

Also, on an interestingly side note...I forgot to mention that I ran the same test over the weekend by replumbing one of my M1's for giggles and I had zero issues after 2.5 days of usage. Ran the L1 and M1 side by side and the L1 screamed within 2 hours of being set to 100%. So, 'in my experience', noticed the quotes, I think not only is the issue with air ventilated/cooled pumps but it pertains to only the L1's. At least, that has been my finding thus far. (I should send this clowns a bill.)

I'm too looking at other pumps but my concern is quietness...and has to be external pump. I've had a reeflo (albeit it was 10 years ago so maybe not a fair comparison today) before and the thing leaked within 6 months and was loud as heck. But the motor and performance was solid, just a seals issue. If you all have other recommendations on equally quite or better yet, quieter pumps of this size or larger output then by all means chime in. I'm a little tired of spending nights and weekends being the Guinea pig on equipment that is 2 months old.

Ps - not sure if it was you that mentioned this or not but they also tried to say it was because the pump was in close proximity to the other two...when the ambient air around the pumps is 76-77 degrees...you can imagine how that conversation went.


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[02tts]

Originally Posted by SPotter

Mine hit 130! I have not heard of many people complaining about water temp issues running them internally.

137 here baby! (Running at 100%).

Complains may not be many because most are probably running chillers or fans which would allow the tank to keep up. But that's just an assumption.

I run neither on mine. Just keep the house at 75 which is cheaper and more stable, at least for me, than running fans or chillers. Especially with fans, living in S Florida we have enough humidity to begin with


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[mfinn]

Originally Posted by SPotter

I haven't seen too many issues with the pumps being used internally.

I can't remember seeing any having a heat issue running internally either.

When mine died, I have no idea why. I just happen to check the sump area one day and it was off.
After I received my replacement I picked up a infrared thermometer and my replacement L1 is running at 124 degrees at 100% external.

I have a very limited budget being retired and am going to have to save up a couple months to even get a pump such as the Fluval SP6.
I am not going back to the noise of the dart/snapper hybrid pump I had before. The quietness of the Vectra has ruined me for any others.
So I added a small clip-on fan in my sump area and the L1 runs at 112 to 114.
My M1 is at 89-90, at 5/8% external.

[Scorpius]

I've been seeing a temp increase in my tank from 78-80 unless I run a fan over my tank. Never had this issue before and now I'm wondering if the increase in temps is due to my Vectra M1 transferring heat to my water. I have it submerged.

[02tts]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I've been seeing a temp increase in my tank from 78-80 unless I run a fan over my tank. Never had this issue before and now I'm wondering if the increase in temps is due to my Vectra M1 transferring heat to my water. I have it submerged.

Depending on total volume but sure, personally I think 1-2 degrees should be expected with the L1, again, depending on volume and other factors. Unless your total water volume is so much that the increase is negligible. This is an easy test on a non established tank, not such an easy task on an established one.

I can tell you that in my particular setup, 3 externally run vectra's are adding 3 to 3.5 degrees to my tank. I've run this test several times when I had nothing but water in the tank just 3 months ago or so, with room temp at 75, DT would be at 75.2 to 75.5 with nothing inside the tank and sump other than water. Turn the pumps on and temp would rise to a steady 78.2 to 78.5.

I have 2 m1's, one running at 55% and the other at 50% and then an L1, now running at 95% from 9am to 9pm, then dropping to 30% at night.

Obviously how much it ultimately transfers in your tank will be different than mine, too many variables to consider. But the above is for my setup. No fans anywhere including the pumps, which I may actually consider putting a small 120mm PC fan to blow on the pumps to see if it translates to anything less on the DT, doubtful but might try it.


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[locito277]

Im currently adding 2 L1's to a 720 build as returns. I am considering adding a third hooked up to a oceans motion as a CL. On the 240 build I have 2 M1's as returns and was thinking of adding a third with/without OM as well. My question is do you think the two L1s can handle the return sump duties well. It will have to pump up like 7 ft from the sump as the tank is 4 ft tall with a 3 ft stand. Should I go a different route? Do you like th eOM idea or should I go with another pump for the CL. Thanks

[sleepydoc]

It seems pretty clear that they have cooling issues with their design. When used internally/submersed, they have the benefit of constant water cooling and it isn't an issue. Air, being a much poorer conductor of heat than water, doesn't cool nearly as effectively and they overheat. Of course all that heat is going into the tank if it's internal, so pick your poison.

I think the reason they haven't come up with a good solution is because there isn't one. If it's a fundamental design problem, the only way to fix it is to either run the pumps at lower rates so they generate less heat, or to redesign the casing to better dissipate the heat.

For the price they are asking, it would seem you could find a better pump from another manufacturer.

[02tts]

Originally Posted by locito277

Im currently adding 2 L1's to a 720 build as returns. I am considering adding a third hooked up to a oceans motion as a CL. On the 240 build I have 2 M1's as returns and was thinking of adding a third with/without OM as well. My question is do you think the two L1s can handle the return sump duties well. It will have to pump up like 7 ft from the sump as the tank is 4 ft tall with a 3 ft stand. Should I go a different route? Do you like th eOM idea or should I go with another pump for the CL. Thanks

Personally I think 2 L1's would handle your return needs and then some. I suspect you wouldn't have to run them at more than 60%. I run my 2 M1's as returns and they run at 50 and 55% and one of them is also feeding 3 reactors. Will also depend on sump design and what the drains can handle, etc but personally I think you'd be fine and wouldn't have to run them at capacity. It sounds like a standard run, meaning no basements, through floors, crazy angles, etc. Have no experience with an OM and whether the L1 would cut it, but I'm sure someone will chime in.

Sounds like an amazing build.


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