New EcoTech Marine Vectra Return Pump

[02tts]

Originally Posted by sleepydoc

It seems pretty clear that they have cooling issues with their design. When used internally/submersed, they have the benefit of constant water cooling and it isn't an issue. Air, being a much poorer conductor of heat than water, doesn't cool nearly as effectively and they overheat. Of course all that heat is going into the tank if it's internal, so pick your poison.

I think the reason they haven't come up with a good solution is because there isn't one. If it's a fundamental design problem, the only way to fix it is to either run the pumps at lower rates so they generate less heat, or to redesign the casing to better dissipate the heat.

For the price they are asking, it would seem you could find a better pump from another manufacturer.

Agreed on all counts. However; there is a little more to this.

1. When this happens, the Ecosmartlive site reports the pump as being OFF, which is physically not. ETM response: we'll let our engineers know, aka, thanks for letting us know and have a good day. I say this because of my poor experience with support thus far and how they've handled my particular matters.

2. In both instances, it took weeks for the temp alerts to happen. The first pump took 1.5 weeks before it started reporting alerts. The second pump, which is on there now, took about 3.5 to 4 weeks. And then the alerts are constant...so what the hell failed inside after all this time that now it's causing it to overheat....During that time frame and in both instances, nothing has changed. First pump came with aluminum power brick, second pump came with a plastic brick which is rated at higher amperage and has no mounting holes

3. At 95% the pump runs at 126 degrees. At 100%, it runs 11 degrees hotter, which makes zero sense.

I agree there are heat design issues but I think it's much more involved. Hopefully it's a firmware fix, like everything these days, and an upgrade addresses the issue. A redesign or physical fix would screw some of us depending when the issue is fixed, though maybe they'll extend warranty for the issue once fixed.

With the first pump, one tech said to me to lower it to 75% and if the alerts stop to leave it at 75%... - that's all I'm going to say to that so called solution.

Now, to be perfectly fair, my M1's have been flawless even when tested at 100%. (Kiss of death, I know).

I hope they are smart enough to visit this forum...

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[locito277]

Thanks O2tts, I kept reading and all of a sudden all these issues came up. I already have the 2 L1 and 2 M1 return pumps for both systems. Im thinking of going with another pump due to the lack of communication between the Vectra and Apex which I am looking to purchase once I buy the lights. Ive been buying everything little by little. Skimmers and Retunr pumps are in along with a Maxspect Gyre 150 for each system. Im thinking of adding a MP 60 for additional flow in the 720 and a MP40 for the 240. Now I am debating everything a bit. Am I better off with an Apex compatible CL pump or go with a third Vectra on each system :-(

[sleepydoc]

Originally Posted by 02tts

Agreed on all counts. However; there is a little more to this.

1. When this happens, the Ecosmartlive site reports the pump as being OFF, which is physically not. ETM response: we'll let our engineers know, aka, thanks for letting us know and have a good day. I say this because of my poor experience with support thus far and how they've handled my particular matters.

2. In both instances, it took weeks for the temp alerts to happen. The first pump took 1.5 weeks before it started reporting alerts. The second pump, which is on there now, took about 3.5 to 4 weeks. And then the alerts are constant...so what the hell failed inside after all this time that now it's causing it to overheat....During that time frame and in both instances, nothing has changed. First pump came with aluminum power brick, second pump came with a plastic brick which is rated at higher amperage and has no mounting holes

3. At 95% the pump runs at 126 degrees. At 100%, it runs 11 degrees hotter, which makes zero sense.

I agree there are heat design issues but I think it's much more involved. Hopefully it's a firmware fix, like everything these days, and an upgrade addresses the issue. A redesign or physical fix would screw some of us depending when the issue is fixed, though maybe they'll extend warranty for the issue once fixed.

With the first pump, one tech said to me to lower it to 75% and if the alerts stop to leave it at 75%... - that's all I'm going to say to that so called solution.

Now, to be perfectly fair, my M1's have been flawless even when tested at 100%. (Kiss of death, I know).

I hope they are smart enough to visit this forum...

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I wonder if they have some sort of thermal bonding that is breaking down? I have a hard time seeing how a firmware fix could fix these issues, other that making the pumps run slower so they generate less heat, but that is just false advertising if you ask me

[02tts]

That's a tough question. There are alternatives but in my opinion not many. This pump is so quiet that all things being the same I think the only other choice might be a Red Dragon pump, which are insanely priced IMO, but I hear they have stellar support and put out a stellar product, quite possibly the best out there. I have seen their skimmer and sumps in person and they are impressive, quality is best I've seen. Germans...they just put out excellent, reliable products...they are demanded to. Anyway, in 'my' research and before I bought these vectra's Red Dragon was my alternative, and the only reason I didn't buy them was price. I also believe they run at a higher wattage then the vectra's if memory serve me right, but, they work and work excellent from what I've read (I have no personal experience).

As for apex, I have an apex and what I did was purchase the reeflink from ETM and them 3 separate EB4's so that each pump can be easily controlled and split to a dedicated ups. I run 4 APC ups's which give me a little over an hour of runtime. So, I have full control of the pumps except I have to use the reeflink and the apex when doing a feed mode. Bit of a pain but in reality is an extra 10 seconds of my time switching from one app to the next on my phone.

Don't get me wrong. I love all 3 pumps. I have zero issues with the M1's so far, my gripe is with the L1. I also run them outside my sump so if your plan is to submerge them you may very well not encounter any issues, especially heat related.


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[locito277]

I was looking into running them external to maximize my sump size. I have a Nuos Quantum 300 and wanted to have a fuge as well. I know everyone hates the miracle mud system but Inwas a big fan when I ran it yrs ago. I also want to save a section of the sump for reactors. Kalk, calcium, and either phosphate media or GC. All these wants makes me prefer to keep the pump external although I noticed all the potential issues. I had been told of the abyss as well but at 2500 per pump its way out of my budget. I see what your saying about the reef link and apex working simultaneously. I just worry it will take a lot of space under the tank. Was hoping to rig a Genesis auto water changer to the system. I thought setting. Up the tank would be fun. Lol I feel like every decision is equally important.


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[locito277]

I was looking into running them external to maximize my sump size. I have a Nuos Quantum 300 and wanted to have a fuge as well. I know everyone hates the miracle mud system but Inwas a big fan when I ran it yrs ago. I also want to save a section of the sump for reactors. Kalk, calcium, and either phosphate media or GC. All these wants makes me prefer to keep the pump external although I noticed all the potential issues. I had been told of the abyss as well but at 2500 per pump its way out of my budget. I see what your saying about the reef link and apex working simultaneously. I just worry it will take a lot of space under the tank. Was hoping to rig a Genesis auto water changer to the system. I thought setting. Up the tank would be fun. Lol I feel like every decision is equally important. Another fear is purchasing the Neptune which I think is vital and then having a ecotech system coming out which would be much easier as most of my setup will be ecotech.


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[02tts]

[QUOTE=locito277;24640976]I was looking into running them external to maximize my sump size. I have a Nuos Quantum 300 and wanted to have a fuge as well. I know everyone hates the miracle mud system but Inwas a big fan when I ran it yrs ago. I also want to save a section of the sump for reactors. Kalk, calcium, and either phosphate media or GC. All these wants makes me prefer to keep the pump external although I noticed all the potential issues. I had been told of the abyss as well but at 2500 per pump its way out of my budget. I see what your saying about the reef link and apex working simultaneously. I just worry it will take a lot of space under the tank. Was hoping to rig a Genesis auto water changer to the system. I thought setting. Up the tank would be fun. Lol I feel like every decision is equally important. Another fear is purchasing the Neptune which I think is vital and then having a ecotech system coming out which would be much easier as most of my setup will be ecotech.


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I hear ya. I too needed the sump space for a
big drop in skimmer and 3 reactors (2 GAC, and 1 GFO). The rest I dose and the kalk I use in ato water.

Personally I love the apex and its reliability, but hated the fact that ecotech didn't want to play along, obviously because their solution was a $100 reeflink and I'm sure they are working on an apex competitive solution, time will tell. Apex is tried and tested and is quite powerful with the amount of custom programming you can do, plus apex fusion is really neat. Also, lots of modules and controllers/probes available for it - I really want the DO probe but, ~$700! Come on guys...

For me, I'm a fowlr tank so I don't have the requirements of a reef, i.e. the high intensity lighting, wave makers, etc..so the only thing I have from them are the pumps


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[locito277]

It's those corals!! They get addicting and it just changes the game altogether. I'm definitely going for the apex and reef link. I was thinking radions but still debating between kessils ap700 vs Radions. Apex can control all the other Echotech equipment though right? I figure I don't need much apex control for the return pumps or CL. I can use it for everything else. Maybe you can help me with a question I've been having. With the Neptune can I have it also monitor my ATO or should I get the Tunze ATO? A lot has changed since I left the hobby for a while.


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[02tts]

Originally Posted by locito277

It's those corals!! They get addicting and it just changes the game altogether. I'm definitely going for the apex and reef link. I was thinking radions but still debating between kessils ap700 vs Radions. Apex can control all the other Echotech equipment though right? I figure I don't need much apex control for the return pumps or CL. I can use it for everything else. Maybe you can help me with a question I've been having. With the Neptune can I have it also monitor my ATO or should I get the Tunze ATO? A lot has changed since I left the hobby for a while.


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Can't answer the question about the ETM products with apex compatibility because I just don't have any personal experience with any other ETM product, sorry.

As for ato, you could use the apex, a float switch and a pump for sure. Personally, I would do the Tunze osmolator, that's what I ended up doing and it works great and their system has two floats, an infrared eye and a backup emergency failsafe float - can't beat that setup IMO.


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[locito277]

Great thanks a mil for the advice. I see Amazon has them for about 199. I'll do some searching as I would require two systems. I read that Neptune was also coming up with a optical ATO.


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[02tts]

Originally Posted by locito277

Great thanks a mil for the advice. I see Amazon has them for about 199. I'll do some searching as I would require two systems. I read that Neptune was also coming up with a optical ATO.


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Sure thing.

I run mine at the lowest setting and have rules in place to shut it off using the apex if ph registers a certain amount (since I have kalk mix in ato), turn off when feeding, turn off if skimmer is off, delay upon turning on, delay upon initial power on, etc. This way I'm never putting too much water in the tank or worse loading it up with so much that my ph goes crazy because of kalk mix. You can get pretty creative on the programming.


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[locito277]

Pretty insane stuff. Went from MH and iwaki pumps with Rio pumps in your tank to. All these new things and no heat lights etc. can't wait to be up and running


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[02tts]

Originally Posted by locito277

Pretty insane stuff. Went from MH and iwaki pumps with Rio pumps in your tank to. All these new things and no heat lights etc. can't wait to be up and running


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I second that. I still have a panworld pump left over from 10 years ago.

Make sure to post pics when you start building that puppy up! I tried to swing a 1k gallon build...before settling for a 500. You can imagine who won that argument in my house.

Looking forward to the 720 build!


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[locito277]

I have a thread started just not
Much movement as the tank won't arrive until next Wednesday. Still a ways to go. It's called 720 build in Miami. My wife actually wanted 800 but getting a customized new tank that size would cost what the house cost. Luckily I found the 720 locally as my old 240 which I will also be building up was considered small by her. I was offended but always wanted a monster tank. :-)


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[02tts]

Originally Posted by locito277

I have a thread started just not
Much movement as the tank won't arrive until next Wednesday. Still a ways to go. It's called 720 build in Miami. My wife actually wanted 800 but getting a customized new tank that size would cost what the house cost. Luckily I found the 720 locally as my old 240 which I will also be building up was considered small by her. I was offended but always wanted a monster tank. :-)


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Lucky guy!

Greetings from West Palm

I'll keep an eye on your thread.


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[SPotter]

Originally Posted by 02tts

Agreed on all counts. However; there is a little more to this.

1. When this happens, the Ecosmartlive site reports the pump as being OFF, which is physically not. ETM response: we'll let our engineers know, aka, thanks for letting us know and have a good day. I say this because of my poor experience with support thus far and how they've handled my particular matters.

2. In both instances, it took weeks for the temp alerts to happen. The first pump took 1.5 weeks before it started reporting alerts. The second pump, which is on there now, took about 3.5 to 4 weeks. And then the alerts are constant...so what the hell failed inside after all this time that now it's causing it to overheat....During that time frame and in both instances, nothing has changed. First pump came with aluminum power brick, second pump came with a plastic brick which is rated at higher amperage and has no mounting holes

3. At 95% the pump runs at 126 degrees. At 100%, it runs 11 degrees hotter, which makes zero sense.

I agree there are heat design issues but I think it's much more involved. Hopefully it's a firmware fix, like everything these days, and an upgrade addresses the issue. A redesign or physical fix would screw some of us depending when the issue is fixed, though maybe they'll extend warranty for the issue once fixed.

With the first pump, one tech said to me to lower it to 75% and if the alerts stop to leave it at 75%... - that's all I'm going to say to that so called solution.

Now, to be perfectly fair, my M1's have been flawless even when tested at 100%. (Kiss of death, I know).

I hope they are smart enough to visit this forum...

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I am starting to believe that the L1's are just not able to do what ETM says they can and should not be used externally.

[ksed]

Originally Posted by SPotter

I am starting to believe that the L1's are just not able to do what ETM says they can and should not be used externally.

Unless they are run at lower speeds

[SPotter]

Originally Posted by ksed

Unless they are run at lower speeds

correct....so pay full price to run at half speed.

[ksed]

Lol!
If you are going to run full speed and don't need the control aspect, you will be better of will an AC pump.

Originally Posted by SPotter

correct....so pay full price to run at half speed.

[skinsncanes]

Apparently I had notification turned off and missed two pages of posts... So I guess my choice is buying a new sump to run them internal or just sell all three L1s. But telling me to run them at 60 percent is a bs answer and I need more flow. Or even if I don't need it, I paid for a pump to ensure I'd get the turnover I wanted and now it doesn't do it. I'm about to throw my Blueline 30 back on that used to do the job of all three pumps and was dialed back...


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[skinsncanes]

Originally Posted by sleepydoc

It seems pretty clear that they have cooling issues with their design. When used internally/submersed, they have the benefit of constant water cooling and it isn't an issue. Air, being a much poorer conductor of heat than water, doesn't cool nearly as effectively and they overheat. Of course all that heat is going into the tank if it's internal, so pick your poison.

I think the reason they haven't come up with a good solution is because there isn't one. If it's a fundamental design problem, the only way to fix it is to either run the pumps at lower rates so they generate less heat, or to redesign the casing to better dissipate the heat.

For the price they are asking, it would seem you could find a better pump from another manufacturer.

When water cools it, doesn't that mean it's instantly transferred to the water?

I can't imagine using the L1s in a cabinet. I have a dedicated fish room and when my wife shut the door once it turned into a sauna in there, which never happened before getting these pumps.

What's a good alternative to the L1 that isn't a ac pump that sounds like a jet engine. I don't need dead silent but need it to not be so hot.


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[mfinn]

Originally Posted by skinsncanes

But telling me to run them at 60 percent is a bs answer and I need more flow.

Who said you have to run it at 60%?

[skinsncanes]

Originally Posted by mfinn

Who said you have to run it at 60%?

Other people were saying 60, so I just kept with the exaggeration. Though ecotech told me to do 80. If the pump can't run above 80 they should make 80 be 100 and fix their graphs


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[mfinn]

Originally Posted by skinsncanes

Other people were saying 60, so I just kept with the exaggeration. Though ecotech told me to do 80. If the pump can't run above 80 they should make 80 be 100 and fix their graphs


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Got ya.

I run my M1 at 55%-60%, but it's because I choose to. It's my return pump and I figure somewhere in the neighbor hood of 900+ gph is plenty of flow for my tank.

ETM told you to only go to 80%?


When I talked with ETM about my replacement L1, I told them that my plan was to run it at 100% and they never said not to.

[02tts]

Not sure how my clients would take it if I charged them for project but only delivered 75-80% and walked away. I'm pretty confident I wouldn't still be in business.

Yes, I was told to run it at 75% - the conversation took a different course after that. Albeit the issue is still not fixed and I don't see them fixing it anytime soon. I'm still waiting on email replies in mine.


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