Pedal laceration in Gigantea

[BonsaiNut]

Originally Posted by jeffreylesser

Sadly I think my journey is ending tonight. What started as possible sexual reproduction (smoke like appearance from the anemones mouth), ended in full deflation and my clownfish ripping necrotic organs from the anemones everted stomach.

Are you sure it's necrotic? Pull it out of the water and smell it. Trust me, you'll know right away. It may just be mesenterial filaments that they are pulling at. Regardless, you want to separate it from your clowns or they'll tear it apart.

I don't know - it looks bad but I've seen worse. It can't hurt to try an antibiotic bath. Perhaps this time use an ammonia block?

[jeffreylesser]

The parts that were pulled out looked pretty bad. Brown and fuzzy in nature. The anemone did have an organ in there that was blue that looked fine(Gonad?) and the clown fish left it alone. This organ appeared to be the source of the smoke. The smoke looked green tinted vs. the white tinted smoke I have seen form other reproducing anemone(BTA). Most of the filaments were pulled off by the fish. Honestly I think what the clown fish did was in the best interests of the anemone as those parts were goners, and it seemed the anemone was try to get rid of them. Can the anemone regrow what was lost? Not sure, but because of the way they split/heal they have a better chance to regrow parts than I do. I can't recall ever reading any information on this topic. I have since moved the anemone back into an antibiotic bath at the same dosage I did before. It's foot was still attached to the rock I had placed under it in the DT. We shall see.

[beuchat]

Hi, the battle is not still won...

He deflated really quick today, was throwing away a lot of "smoke" through his moth.During the water evacuation:



Later:



I will wait. If tomorrow is still deflated I will return to QT with antibiotic and start again...

[velvetelvis]

Sorry to hear that. Do you think the clowns might have stressed him?

[beuchat]

Originally Posted by velvetelvis

Sorry to hear that. Do you think the clowns might have stressed him?

Not, for sure. The animal was huge in comparation.

I hope he is replacing the "old" water with rest of antibiotics for "new" water from the DT.

I will keep the post updated. We shall reach some conclusions from jeffreylesser's experiences and mine

[jeffreylesser]

That is too bad. Pretty much the same thing that happened to the gigantea I have. Im not sure I have noticed this "smoke" behavior in other anemones I have tried to acclimate. My Gigantea looks pretty terrible today, but it is still sticky, so the nemocysts(sp?) are still firing, which I will take as a sign of life.

[beuchat]

I´ve just returned from cinema.

He is inflating again!!!

I will post pictures tomorrow!

[Virtuoso]

Reading this thread as someone who knows absolutely nothing about anemones is mindblowing. Absolutely mindblowing. Beautiful creatures you two have. Hope they both make a complete recovery.

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by beuchat

Hi, the battle is not still won...

He deflated really quick today, was throwing away a lot of "smoke" through his moth.During the water evacuation:



Later:



I will wait. If tomorrow is still deflated I will return to QT with antibiotic and start again...

I really hope that I am wrong, but it could be spawning, but a stress induced spawning. Long story short, about 2 years ago I had to have emergency back surgery, and had an issue with my main pump -- water parameters got all out of whack. The day after I was released my S. Haddoni (( in a very stressed state )) spawned;



While it did recover, it never was quite the same and lost it a year later when trying something new.

[beuchat]

Pics from just 1 minute ago:







I am not sure. I will monitor him and if he get worse I will transfer to QT tank again.

[jeffreylesser]

My anemone died today. I think maybe the enrofloxacin antibiotic bath needs to be longer than 5 days. Seems as though it got better, then the infection set in again. Some of the reading material talked of the antibiotic remaining in fish muscles for up to 5 days. As anemones are mostly water they must cycle the antibiotic out of their system faster than that. This is all conjecture of course. Thoughts?

[velvetelvis]

Sorry to hear that, jeffreylesser.

[beuchat]

Sorry to hear that!, jeffreylesser

Yesterday evening I removed my gigantea from DT and placed again in QT. It inflates again in just 1 hour!. These are my thougts:

Some possibilities:

1-Treatment should be longer.

2-I read that anemones have “good” bacteria in their body’s, wich help like probiotics as a defense against “bad” bacteria. The antibiotic destroys the “good” and “bad” so the animal has no protection when returned to main tank. It is like leaving and operating room in a hospital and enter in a cowshed.

3-The aquarium water is “full of bacteria” and the anemone will never survive there. In my case I run ozone and UW stirilizer so I suppose I minimize this.

I will extend the treatment for more days and try to do water changes with aquarium water, first with antibiotic and later without antibiotic. Maybe mixing new water with small quantities of aquarium water may create like a “vaccine” for the anemone in order to have defenses when returned to display tank.

I think we have shown that the problem is mainly the bacterial infection since the anemone automaticly recovers when placed into water containing antibiotic.

[BonsaiNut]

If you are using main system tank water for your QT, and the only change is the use of antibiotic, then it seems logical that there is some pathogen that is causing a problem. However just to be certain, let me list other things that might change between the DT and QT:

(1) Lighting
(2) Temperature
(3) Dissolved oxygen levels
(4) Water movement

What would have been interesting is if you had moved your anemone to the QT BEFORE adding the antibiotic, and seen how it responded. If it had remained flaccid / deflated, and then when you added the antibiotic it expanded, we could have felt even more confident that the antibiotic is causing the change.

Just some thoughts. I am still convinced that it must be some pathogen in the water.

I agree the course of action at this point needs to be to try to get the anemone 100% strong and healthy in the QT tank - eventually getting to the point where (via water changes) you have removed the majority of the antibiotic from the water. Then if you move the strong anemone back to the DT and it deflates, you can start to look for other possible environmental causes.

Giganteas are by far the most difficult clown anemone to keep. When I have problems with them, the first thing I always do is to place them in QT with extremely strong water flow and venturis - almost like a surf zone on a reef. We're talking about the QT looking like a bubble bath. One interesting side effect of this is that it really helps remove waste products / slime from the anemone - the entire creature is getting washed back and forth by the water movement, and any loose matter is getting covered with bubbles and swept away. Combined with a strong protein skimmer, this has worked "ok" for me in the past. Not 100% but I have saved some giganteas that were dying in my DT. I have also witnessed the effect you describe, where if you return the anemone too soon it gets sick again, but if you keep it in the surf environment for a couple of weeks and it gets really strong, you can return it and it will make the transition.

[beuchat]

He has been in QT with cloramfenicol+aquarium water from DT for 48 h and keeped completly inflated and looking healthy.

I changed all water in QT three hours ago with water from the DT, no antibiotic added. He is looking great. I hope he will be ok for some days and then I can return to main tank.

I will try not to add more antibiotic. I will post some pics tomorrow.

[beuchat]

Well, after 24 hours in QT with water from DT and without antibiotic



I will keep him in QT for some days without antibiotic, doing water changes from DT every 24 hours. Then place him back to DT.

He looks healthy!

[jonnybravo22]

this has been a very interesting thread to follow. among other things, it shows the amazing resilience of these creatures under the right circumstances. consider how many times this thing has bounced back already. thanks for sharing.

[BonsaiNut]

Beuchat, is the water movement in your QT a lot stronger than the water movement in your DT?

[velvetelvis]

This is better than a soap opera.

Not to harp on the same topic, but do you think it might also be a good idea to keep the clowns away from him for a while (if possible), just so they don't stress the anemone while he's still recovering? Or can hosting clownfish help a recovering anemone, as long as they're not rough?

[beuchat]

No, it is a lot lower, only a koralia placed near. In DT there are two vortechs mp 40 facing each other and the anemone in the center (more or less).

[beuchat]

The fishes are very small related to anemone's size
when nem is inflated

Anyway tried to separate them but it is
Imposible

[Reefvette]

You may have too much flow for your new gig.

How big of a tank and vortech have such incredible power.

[beuchat]

Well, I needed to travel so I left him in QT without antibiotic for 3 days more. It is very interesting that I have measured 5 ppm !!! of NH4 and he was not damaged. Here is the pic:




I placed him back to DT and hope this is the last trip with no return





Sorry for the quality of photos, they were taken with the mobile phone

[Dan]

Below is a video of a gig I had several years ago. At the time I thought it was spawning, but when it did not recover and died a week later, I figured maybe it was a bacterial infection. I had the anemone for about 6 months. It was doing great and there were no changes to the tank at the time. Just went downhill.



Very interesting to see how antibiotics are helping with beuchat's gig. Your demonstration is very well done. While it looks like a high probability some pathogen is responsible, let us not rule out other possibilities (chemical warfare, trace ozone, water flow, etc.). Wait and see for now.

Dan

[beuchat]

I needed to remove him again from DT. He tried to inflate but could not finish and started loking like a fried egg.

When in contact with the antibiotic he inflates very quick and looks really healthy. I think there are bad bacteria in his boddy and very probable also in aquarium water

He has been in QT with antibiotic for four days. I will keep him medicated until next week.