LFP's Xenon Projection and Cree LED DIY lighting system. - Page 4

7808 · 01/14/2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by areze
what do you get? a waste of money.

10 HID bulbs? or... 2 250w MH bulbs. Ill replace 2 bulbs thanks. and Ill put them on a sweet reflector for vertical penetration of the light for maximum efficiency.

and Ill use MH bulbs that have a spectrum that is specialized to precise wavelengths needed for photosynthesis and flourescence in corals.

the LEDs are nice, the automotive HID bulbs are a total waste unfortunatly. sorry.

*we actually had a very recent thread with another poster trying this automotive HID idea.

HID is a more advanced technology and i think there on to somthing using it in reefkeeping

EnderG60 · 01/14/2009, 07:36 AM

Luke, It looks from the pictures like you have the projector arranged in the middle pointing out. Seems like it would be better for your objective to place them on the perimeter and aim them in wouldnt it?

Also they do make 50w and 55w balasts for those you know. And they run on the same bulbs(most are rated for up to 60w) Just in case you want to be a real reefer and bump up the wattage

liveforphysics · 01/14/2009, 03:59 PM

Thank you for all the kindness!

EnderG60- I'm definately aware. I run modded ballasts in my racecar that switch between 20w and 55w.

The 55w versions just use a different current sense shunt. If you spend the time to pick away or disolve the expoxy potting, you can unsolder the shunt and attach leads to run outside the ballast case. Then you can make adjustable power ballasts. You can find guides to do this on various HID websites, and it's been working great on my racecar for a few years.

I was interested in trying to extend bulb life to be as long as possible (and didn't feel like modding a whole bunch of ballasts), so I stuck with 35w/bulb. If I ever desire more output, I could spend an hour with each ballast and bump out the wattage, but then I wouldn't have met my goal of 1/2 power consumption from my previous system

Best Wishes,
-Luke

BTW- You could also set them up to run on a program to ramp-up and ramp-down power to the bulbs, much like controlled output T5 systems.

Maybe I will do something like that, but at the moment I'm very contented with the performance, and don't have the free time.

liveforphysics · 01/14/2009, 03:59 PM

Thank you for all the kindness!

EnderG60- I'm definately aware. I run modded ballasts in my racecar that switch between 20w and 55w.

The 55w versions just use a different current sense shunt. If you spend the time to pick away or disolve the expoxy potting, you can unsolder the shunt and attach leads to run outside the ballast case. Then you can make adjustable power ballasts. You can find guides to do this on various HID websites, and it's been working great on my racecar for a few years.

I was interested in trying to extend bulb life to be as long as possible (and didn't feel like modding a whole bunch of ballasts), so I stuck with 35w/bulb. If I ever desire more output, I could spend an hour with each ballast and bump out the wattage, but then I wouldn't have met my goal of 1/2 power consumption from my previous system

Best Wishes,
-Luke

BTW- You could also set them up to run on a program to ramp-up and ramp-down power to the bulbs, much like controlled output T5 systems.

Maybe I will do something like that, but at the moment I'm very contented with the performance, and don't have the free time.

JACOXVIII · 01/15/2009, 03:02 PM

how about a small clam tank

liveforphysics · 01/15/2009, 10:35 PM

I think applications like a clam tank or any "look-down" type of tank would be ideally suited towards projection lighting. With the ability to aim and overlap the spotlights, you can reach extremely high levels of intensity for very high light demand animals.

You could also just over lap spots in an area of a tank that you want to use to keep your clams or other animals that want very high light levels.

By shifting the position the final aspherical lens sits from the reflector, you can adjust the spot size to be however large or small you think would best suit your application. I shifted mine in closer to the bulb to create a wider projection angle. If I were lighting a small clam tank, I would keep the narrow angle and mount the lights clear up on the ceiling to allow an open space over the tank for viewing.

Best Wishes,
-Luke

token · 01/15/2009, 10:50 PM

liveforphysics, I am loving this thread. I have all kinds of thoughts/ideas/questions bumping around in my head. I have never been really happy with standard aquarium lighting. If you lift it high enough to be practical, you light the room with it. If you hang it lower to avoid that, it's a constant problem around which one has to work (without considering the visual aesthetics of the stand/canopy combinations that result).

I hope that what you are working on pans out. If it does, many of us can say, "Goodbye, hanging (head-bumping) fixtures!"

liveforphysics · 01/16/2009, 01:14 AM

Yep!

I appreciate the kind words

My old lighting was on a pivot that allowed it to swing off to the side for working in the tank, but it always blocked one of the three sides, and it sucked to lose your light when you wanted to work.

I'm so happy with getting the lights way up high and out of the way. Free easy access to the entire tank bottom with no fuss or carefully sliding my arm through a little door and burning myself on bulbs and things.

Everyone that comes to see the tank instantly notes how different a tank appears when the glass isn't lit. It really fades away the appearence of the barrier between you and the animals, and makes them seem to be floating in space.

It's been about 3 weeks now since I cleaned the glass

Still no signs of any algae growing on it

Corals have great polyp extension, and colors are looking great. Hopefully it stays that way!

-Luke

jasonh · 01/16/2009, 11:28 AM

Luke,

Very cool idea. I had never thought about something like this. Unfortunately I can only see the pics on the articles since various image hosting domains are blocked here at work

Not sure how much you spent on each projector, but there are very cheap projectors available from some aftermarket companies for various cars (they are available for my Neon SRT-4 I know for fact). They are generally made for standard halogen bulbs though, so some modification would probably be required. but probably still cheaper and more readily available than wrecked BMWs

It was upsetting to see people instantly criticizing the work you've done. This is the great spirit of DIY - to come up with new ways to do things. Though I've sure the first person to put a MH lamp over a tank was heavily criticized too, just like the initial LED people

Keep up the great work, you have some really good ideas. I used your venturi design on my skimmer (little crappy-fied though) and it works great

Young Frankenstein · 01/16/2009, 04:34 PM

Nice project Luke...thanks for sharing the info

I am thinking of making something similar but I would like to see if any of the new plasma bulbs are out in the market already, from the last read I did on plasma they started making them in Germany.

Young Frankenstein · 01/16/2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 7808
HID is a more advanced technology and i think there on to somthing using it in reefkeeping

High Intensity Discharge bulbs is nothing new and cheaper than MH

A.T.T.R · 01/16/2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Young Frankenstein
High Intensity Discharge bulbs is nothing new and cheaper than MH

mh is an hid

magnoliarichj · 01/16/2009, 08:37 PM

and hid is MH

liveforphysics · 01/17/2009, 01:18 AM

These are the reasons I like to call it Xenon HID, or Xenon gas discharge to clear up any confusion with the other type of Xenon HID, which is Xenon arc (often called short-arc).

To make a quick reference, we could call it XGD lighting. It's easy to use and it clears up any confusion with other types of lighting.

Young Frankenstein · 01/17/2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by A.T.T.R
mh is an hid

HID bulbs are NOT MH bulbs

MeuserReef · 01/17/2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Young Frankenstein
HID bulbs are NOT MH bulbs

YF.... READ THIS... especially the first line.

jasonh · 01/17/2009, 04:21 PM

MH bulbs are HID so Meuser is right. But HID is not necessarily MH. So YF is right the way he stated it...but I think the way he meant it is incorrect.

liveforphysics · 01/17/2009, 10:27 PM

It's silly to get caught up in nomenclature nonsense

Lets just call it XGD (Xenon Gas Discharge).

XGD lamps, XGD lighting, XGD projection. It should help remove confusion in discussions.

JACOXVIII · 01/17/2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by liveforphysics
It's silly to get caught up in nomenclature nonsense

Lets just call it XGD (Xenon Gas Discharge).

XGD lamps, XGD lighting, XGD projection. It should help remove confusion in discussions.

works for me

OnlyCrimson · 01/17/2009, 11:57 PM

Certainly looks interesting. I'm guessing it is only good for spotlighting? or can the beams mix to give the light of a real reef? No offense, but the lighting looks very blotchy and unreal.

Mojo Jojo · 01/18/2009, 02:28 AM

Wow ok so besides the fuzz around the tread. I like the idea this guy has. It is unique and if it works for him why change it.

jjk_reef00 · 01/18/2009, 03:16 AM

I would like to see pics of the tank growth. Progress with documented growth rate.

liveforphysics · 01/18/2009, 05:58 AM

Onlycrimson- The main idea was to just light the areas that have animals that I want to light. Keep in mind that I have an area that is likely around 6 times the area to light of your tank. 3-4 spots could easy fully cover the bottom of a tank your size. I built 14 spotlights for this project, and ended up only using 9 of them, because 9 of them was enough to cover all the areas I have photosynthetic animals in my reef.

As far as growth shots go, it's only been a few weeks guys :P. I wish I could show some amazing growth in a couple weeks, but it looks pretty much the same. Maybe new branch budding on a coral here and there, and the tips are maybe a 1/4" longer on some corals. It's not a miricle coral growth accelerator. It's just lights. It does seem to be keeping them healthy though, and I love the look of unlit glass, as well as no algae growth on the glass and cutting power consumption in half.

In due time I will be able to show some growth progress pictures, as well as give you guys an idea of the number of hours the bulbs are able to run before output decreases, or spectrum shifts or whatever happens to them to lead to needing bulb replacement.

Until we make time machines, myself and everyone else interested will just have to wait and see what happens. Maybe tomorrow I will have a massive bleaching event, maybe they will slowly all die off, or maybe they will continue looking healthy and growing along like they are now. I don't have a way to rush the longterm outcome results of this project. I can only tell you that I'm pleased with what I'm seeing in the short term.

Best Wishes,
-Luke

EnderG60 · 01/18/2009, 08:30 AM

ok thats all fine and dandy, now how about getting back to that skimmer build

Whalehead9 · 01/18/2009, 11:18 AM

So If I am interested in these lights, I need to find a car dealership, or junkyard that will have used fixtures. once that is done I get the bulbs where? As a DIY, this is an amazing build, but without sources to replicate this stuff it is just a one of a kind build. I have a 40 gallon breeder flat, that I will be doing sps, in, and I want to use a few t-5,s mixed in with either 70 mh, or XGD. I work six to seven days a week, so time wandering around town or the vastness of the internet does me little good. So here are my questions.

1. How did you get the parts that you needed.
2. Where is a good reference to look up info on the particular brand(s) of the items that you got.
3. How long do you figure that these bulbs last
4. How easy is it to get these parts? In other words do I need to have backups ready to go because it will take a week to get replacements sent to me

I will have more question but I need more coffee first.

01/14/2009, 03:59 PM	#78
liveforphysics Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle WA Posts: 541	Thank you for all the kindness! EnderG60- I'm definately aware. I run modded ballasts in my racecar that switch between 20w and 55w. The 55w versions just use a different current sense shunt. If you spend the time to pick away or disolve the expoxy potting, you can unsolder the shunt and attach leads to run outside the ballast case. Then you can make adjustable power ballasts. You can find guides to do this on various HID websites, and it's been working great on my racecar for a few years. I was interested in trying to extend bulb life to be as long as possible (and didn't feel like modding a whole bunch of ballasts), so I stuck with 35w/bulb. If I ever desire more output, I could spend an hour with each ballast and bump out the wattage, but then I wouldn't have met my goal of 1/2 power consumption from my previous system Best Wishes, -Luke BTW- You could also set them up to run on a program to ramp-up and ramp-down power to the bulbs, much like controlled output T5 systems. Maybe I will do something like that, but at the moment I'm very contented with the performance, and don't have the free time. __________________ Beauty and less nagging. The all natural Viagra alternative. :) Current Tank Info: 310gal SPS and others.

01/14/2009, 03:59 PM	#79
liveforphysics Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle WA Posts: 541	Thank you for all the kindness! EnderG60- I'm definately aware. I run modded ballasts in my racecar that switch between 20w and 55w. The 55w versions just use a different current sense shunt. If you spend the time to pick away or disolve the expoxy potting, you can unsolder the shunt and attach leads to run outside the ballast case. Then you can make adjustable power ballasts. You can find guides to do this on various HID websites, and it's been working great on my racecar for a few years. I was interested in trying to extend bulb life to be as long as possible (and didn't feel like modding a whole bunch of ballasts), so I stuck with 35w/bulb. If I ever desire more output, I could spend an hour with each ballast and bump out the wattage, but then I wouldn't have met my goal of 1/2 power consumption from my previous system Best Wishes, -Luke BTW- You could also set them up to run on a program to ramp-up and ramp-down power to the bulbs, much like controlled output T5 systems. Maybe I will do something like that, but at the moment I'm very contented with the performance, and don't have the free time. __________________ Beauty and less nagging. The all natural Viagra alternative. :) Current Tank Info: 310gal SPS and others.

01/15/2009, 10:35 PM	#81
liveforphysics Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle WA Posts: 541	I think applications like a clam tank or any "look-down" type of tank would be ideally suited towards projection lighting. With the ability to aim and overlap the spotlights, you can reach extremely high levels of intensity for very high light demand animals. You could also just over lap spots in an area of a tank that you want to use to keep your clams or other animals that want very high light levels. By shifting the position the final aspherical lens sits from the reflector, you can adjust the spot size to be however large or small you think would best suit your application. I shifted mine in closer to the bulb to create a wider projection angle. If I were lighting a small clam tank, I would keep the narrow angle and mount the lights clear up on the ceiling to allow an open space over the tank for viewing. Best Wishes, -Luke __________________ Beauty and less nagging. The all natural Viagra alternative. :) Current Tank Info: 310gal SPS and others.

01/15/2009, 10:50 PM	#82
token Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 614	liveforphysics, I am loving this thread. I have all kinds of thoughts/ideas/questions bumping around in my head. I have never been really happy with standard aquarium lighting. If you lift it high enough to be practical, you light the room with it. If you hang it lower to avoid that, it's a constant problem around which one has to work (without considering the visual aesthetics of the stand/canopy combinations that result). I hope that what you are working on pans out. If it does, many of us can say, "Goodbye, hanging (head-bumping) fixtures!" __________________ •Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. --Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 100g and 75g displays, both with 2 x 250w Iwasaki 14k DE, 100g sump, 55g growout, 55g refugium, 20g benthic

01/16/2009, 01:14 AM	#83
liveforphysics Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle WA Posts: 541	Yep! I appreciate the kind words My old lighting was on a pivot that allowed it to swing off to the side for working in the tank, but it always blocked one of the three sides, and it sucked to lose your light when you wanted to work. I'm so happy with getting the lights way up high and out of the way. Free easy access to the entire tank bottom with no fuss or carefully sliding my arm through a little door and burning myself on bulbs and things. Everyone that comes to see the tank instantly notes how different a tank appears when the glass isn't lit. It really fades away the appearence of the barrier between you and the animals, and makes them seem to be floating in space. It's been about 3 weeks now since I cleaned the glass Still no signs of any algae growing on it Corals have great polyp extension, and colors are looking great. Hopefully it stays that way! -Luke __________________ Beauty and less nagging. The all natural Viagra alternative. :) Current Tank Info: 310gal SPS and others.

01/14/2009, 07:36 AM	#77
EnderG60 Plumbing Engineer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 3,260	Luke, It looks from the pictures like you have the projector arranged in the middle pointing out. Seems like it would be better for your objective to place them on the perimeter and aim them in wouldnt it? Also they do make 50w and 55w balasts for those you know. And they run on the same bulbs(most are rated for up to 60w) Just in case you want to be a real reefer and bump up the wattage

01/15/2009, 03:02 PM	#80
JACOXVIII Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: KC MO Posts: 248	how about a small clam tank

01/16/2009, 11:28 AM	#84
jasonh Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,365	Luke, Very cool idea. I had never thought about something like this. Unfortunately I can only see the pics on the articles since various image hosting domains are blocked here at work Not sure how much you spent on each projector, but there are very cheap projectors available from some aftermarket companies for various cars (they are available for my Neon SRT-4 I know for fact). They are generally made for standard halogen bulbs though, so some modification would probably be required. but probably still cheaper and more readily available than wrecked BMWs It was upsetting to see people instantly criticizing the work you've done. This is the great spirit of DIY - to come up with new ways to do things. Though I've sure the first person to put a MH lamp over a tank was heavily criticized too, just like the initial LED people Keep up the great work, you have some really good ideas. I used your venturi design on my skimmer (little crappy-fied though) and it works great __________________ Jason http://www.jasonhight.net Current Tank Info: Nothing right now. When I stop being poor, I'll set up another.

01/16/2009, 04:34 PM	#85
Young Frankenstein Moved On Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami Florida. Posts: 3,842	Nice project Luke...thanks for sharing the info I am thinking of making something similar but I would like to see if any of the new plasma bulbs are out in the market already, from the last read I did on plasma they started making them in Germany.

01/16/2009, 08:37 PM	#88
magnoliarichj Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: florida west coast Posts: 1,455	and hid is MH

01/17/2009, 01:18 AM	#89
liveforphysics Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle WA Posts: 541	These are the reasons I like to call it Xenon HID, or Xenon gas discharge to clear up any confusion with the other type of Xenon HID, which is Xenon arc (often called short-arc). To make a quick reference, we could call it XGD lighting. It's easy to use and it clears up any confusion with other types of lighting. __________________ Beauty and less nagging. The all natural Viagra alternative. :) Current Tank Info: 310gal SPS and others.

01/17/2009, 04:21 PM	#92
jasonh Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,365	MH bulbs are HID so Meuser is right. But HID is not necessarily MH. So YF is right the way he stated it...but I think the way he meant it is incorrect. __________________ Jason http://www.jasonhight.net Current Tank Info: Nothing right now. When I stop being poor, I'll set up another.

01/17/2009, 10:27 PM	#93
liveforphysics Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle WA Posts: 541	It's silly to get caught up in nomenclature nonsense Lets just call it XGD (Xenon Gas Discharge). XGD lamps, XGD lighting, XGD projection. It should help remove confusion in discussions. __________________ Beauty and less nagging. The all natural Viagra alternative. :) Current Tank Info: 310gal SPS and others.

01/17/2009, 11:57 PM	#95
OnlyCrimson Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Royal Oak,Michigan Posts: 863	Certainly looks interesting. I'm guessing it is only good for spotlighting? or can the beams mix to give the light of a real reef? No offense, but the lighting looks very blotchy and unreal.

01/18/2009, 02:28 AM	#96
Mojo Jojo Moved On Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,495	Wow ok so besides the fuzz around the tread. I like the idea this guy has. It is unique and if it works for him why change it.

01/18/2009, 03:16 AM	#97
jjk_reef00 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,476	I would like to see pics of the tank growth. Progress with documented growth rate.

01/18/2009, 05:58 AM	#98
liveforphysics Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle WA Posts: 541	Onlycrimson- The main idea was to just light the areas that have animals that I want to light. Keep in mind that I have an area that is likely around 6 times the area to light of your tank. 3-4 spots could easy fully cover the bottom of a tank your size. I built 14 spotlights for this project, and ended up only using 9 of them, because 9 of them was enough to cover all the areas I have photosynthetic animals in my reef. As far as growth shots go, it's only been a few weeks guys :P. I wish I could show some amazing growth in a couple weeks, but it looks pretty much the same. Maybe new branch budding on a coral here and there, and the tips are maybe a 1/4" longer on some corals. It's not a miricle coral growth accelerator. It's just lights. It does seem to be keeping them healthy though, and I love the look of unlit glass, as well as no algae growth on the glass and cutting power consumption in half. In due time I will be able to show some growth progress pictures, as well as give you guys an idea of the number of hours the bulbs are able to run before output decreases, or spectrum shifts or whatever happens to them to lead to needing bulb replacement. Until we make time machines, myself and everyone else interested will just have to wait and see what happens. Maybe tomorrow I will have a massive bleaching event, maybe they will slowly all die off, or maybe they will continue looking healthy and growing along like they are now. I don't have a way to rush the longterm outcome results of this project. I can only tell you that I'm pleased with what I'm seeing in the short term. Best Wishes, -Luke __________________ Beauty and less nagging. The all natural Viagra alternative. :) Current Tank Info: 310gal SPS and others.

01/18/2009, 08:30 AM	#99
EnderG60 Plumbing Engineer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 3,260	ok thats all fine and dandy, now how about getting back to that skimmer build

01/18/2009, 11:18 AM	#100
Whalehead9 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: 619 baby! Posts: 297	So If I am interested in these lights, I need to find a car dealership, or junkyard that will have used fixtures. once that is done I get the bulbs where? As a DIY, this is an amazing build, but without sources to replicate this stuff it is just a one of a kind build. I have a 40 gallon breeder flat, that I will be doing sps, in, and I want to use a few t-5,s mixed in with either 70 mh, or XGD. I work six to seven days a week, so time wandering around town or the vastness of the internet does me little good. So here are my questions. 1. How did you get the parts that you needed. 2. Where is a good reference to look up info on the particular brand(s) of the items that you got. 3. How long do you figure that these bulbs last 4. How easy is it to get these parts? In other words do I need to have backups ready to go because it will take a week to get replacements sent to me I will have more question but I need more coffee first. __________________ efficiency is the new horsepower Current Tank Info: 12 asst fw+sw tanks