Ich and how to get rid of it using copper based medication.

[MellowReefer]

Seachem makes a product called Stability which is a bacterial supplement. When I first started using Cupramine I called their tech support and they suggested this to use with Cupramine if I was concerned about the biofilter (I was not, since it was a cycled tank)...so they said you could use it. Prime is something else, that you cannot use.

I use a turkey baster to siphon out the big debris I see on the bottom a few times a week. You get good at it so you don't remove much water that way and don't have to add more cupramine if its just a tiny bit of water.

[goldfish69]

It just seems that I cannot get a break these days.

While my hippo is still eating well, he has come up with a lateral line disease similar to the first picture (http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com...functions.html )

Should I be doing a water change since I'm doing a copper treatment currently? Some articles mention that poor water quality could cause the issue.

Thanks.

[Mattiejay6]

So I have a hippo tang photo attached and I will be starting copper treatment tomorrow.

The tang was in a tank with clownfish.... Are clownfish tolerant of copper treatment or should I not attempt this? I haven't seen any signs of ich on them but since they were with the hippo tang I thinki should treat them too. That sound right?

I want to do hop salinty in the future but I'm more prepared for copper right now because I don't have an ATO for the tank.

It is a dedicated QT

[bnumair]

Hi Mattiejay6
That hippo looks bad i would get her in qt and start treating, other fish like clowns are fine to be in same tank with copper, they can handle copper. you should treat all fish in the main tank that resided with tang. leave the main tank fish less for min 10-12 weeks and treat all fish no exceptions.
good luck and safe reefing.

[Mattiejay6]

These fish never entered my main DT however I am fairly attached to these clownfish.. So can you help me out with signs of stress in a fish when treating copper.. I have me clown who is acting slightly weird.. Both other fishes are acting fine.. The tang is breathing rapidly..

The one clown fish is scratching on the PVC kinda and is doing short burst movements .. I don't see the gills going fast. Still swimming good just have quick spazzing movements..

What should I be looking for stress wise/when should I evacuate them?

[Mattiejay6]

You know it kinda looks like the clowns are trying to scrape their gills.. They do both sides.. Help?

[bnumair]

Yup thats ich for you. I would start copper right away. Dont wait any longer. If qt is cycled and hosting these fish then start cupramine in half dosage today and rest half over next couple of days. Basically divide the dose over 4 days and get it to 0.5 strength. Once there keep holding it there for 4 weeks then observe for signs of ich.
If for any reason u see ich after 4 weeks then do 50% water change and re dose cupramine to make 0.5 strength again.
Clowns and tangs wont freak out at 0.5.
Good luck

[bnumair]

Copper will damage liver over time but at minute amount 0.35 to 0.5 it wont hurt. Cupramine is very safe form of copper that dont do much damage to fish as long as done right.

[Mattiejay6]

The clowns only started doing that after I added cupramine.. So you don't think it's a sign of stress? This is the ich?

I am using the seachem copper test and I believe my copper is at .25 the first recommended dose for 48 hours.. That's what the color looks like at least..

These are 2 frostbite clowns so it just kinda freaks me out.. Don't want to loose these guys.. So just makin sure that behavior is normal after the start of treatment.

[Mattiejay6]

Bnumair.. I really appreciate your help... Is there a easier way to contact you if I need additional quick advise.. Or just stay on here?

[bnumair]

Its normal for fish to act weird in beginning when cupramine is dosed. I would break the rest of the dosage over twice as many days the bottle recommends. I personally think cupramine dosage is a bit fast according to manufacturer. I have had better acclimation with dosage broken over 4 days.

[Mattiejay6]

Should I change some of the water to weaken some of the initial dosage?

[bnumair]

No not now. Just continue. With smaller dose over extra days. Its safe enough for fish even at 0.8ppm so I dont see a reason for disturbing more eco system than whats it worth.

[Mattiejay6]

Dory is swimming in the top corner of the tank staying close to the surface not much movement out of her.. Gills are going fast..

She a goner?

[bnumair]

Too early to say. If ich was well infested then it could go. At this time just keep up with water parameters specially keeping eye on salinity, pH, temp and ammonia. Most ammonia kits will false read copper as ammonia. Also raise the temp to 82F for ich cycle to go faster.
Again its the luck of the fish and yours but I think we are still in the game.

[bnumair]

Copper at 0.25 and up will start to rid/kill different stages of ich and other parasites. So in 1 one dose you should be in range to kill all ich.around .35 and upto 0.5.

[bnumair]

This is what Seachem claims.
Cupramine™ eradicates Oodinium and Ich at 0.1–0.2 mg/L, Cryptocaryon at 0.25–0.35 mg/L, Trematodes and other parasites at 0.4–0.5 mg/L. With a 10–14 day exposure at 0.4 mg/L most infestations will be eradicated and secondary bacterial and fungal infections will be controlled.
TOXICITY: Used as directed, Cupramine™ is not toxic to fish. While some invertebrates have shown tolerance for Cuprami- ne™, it should be considered toxic to invertebrates and they should be removed prior to treatment. Invertebrates should not be returned until several days after a test kit shows no copper. Fish exposed to 0.8 mg/L have shown no ill effects beyond increased respiration. No last- ing ill effects have been observed.

[Mattiejay6]

Ok.. You are awesome! Lets start with that.

Lights are out for the night.. So when I wake up for work at 3am I will check her again.. I am having high hopes for her.. The clowns seem to be handling it ok..

The QT was a cycled tank.. I will just do a small water change in the AM to take out the crud on the bottom of the tank, but ammonia should be good.. I use salifert ammonia test kit. Is there a better one when copper is present to not get a false reding?

Well at least we are in the dose range to kill ich.. I will slowly raise it over the next 3 to 4 days to .5. Want to try and keep this a less stressful as possible and since we are with in range I think raising it slowly like you suggested will be fine.

[Mattiejay6]

http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-s...-ADB41003.html

Would this be ok to use in the hob filter?

[Mattiejay6]

Hippo tang died this morning.

Clowns now have a couple visible spots but not too much. I added a couple more drops only raising it little.. They started their little freak out session again.. Their appetite has diminished some to.

[bnumair]

sorry for the loss, its not easy when we do all kinds of stuff to prevent but sometimes nature has its own way. But for now treat the clowns and keep raising the copper level upto 0.5 ppm then hold it there.
they will lose interest in food due to copper but try different things and force them to eat.

[Mattiejay6]

Question. Some amquel got into the tank.. Probably 24 hours before dosing copper... Would this cause adverse reactions? I did do a 40 percent water change before dosing copper as well..

[Mattiejay6]

Is there a way to force them to eat? Just scared to lose them too... They are acting a little eradic right now.. I'm hoping its from the slight increase..

At what point if there is one would you recommend adding cuprasorb to take the copper out or pull the fish out.. What distress to look for? Trying to be really cautious here..

I also have paragaurd.. Would that be a better alternative?

[bnumair]

any ammonia reducing chemicals will break down the safe form pf cupramine to a toxic form which can kill fish but after doing 40% water change that may not be the issue. i think hippo was well infested and already on its way out.
clown will eat but not a whole lot but as long as they are eating you will be fine. try some garlic extract mixed in food.
Paraguard will not rid ich.

[Joe0813]

ill be using this once i catch my anthias and wrasse