Let's talk about water quality in an SPS tank.

[JB NY]

John Brancheau, Thanks for the kinds words. Comments like those makes posting in these forum worthwhile.

It took me a while to get the water quality to were it is not. Probably two years, but mostly because I just wasn't doing the water changes and carbon enough in the past. When I had a partial tank meltdown when using CS salt I was doing lots of water changes on a daily, then weekly schedule. After, I started to notice how much better the tank looked from the weekly water changes and kept doing it. I just started to go back to every two weeks but am changing out 20% not 10%. So I'll see if it works better. If not I'll go back to the weekly.

Originally posted by acro bat
Wow!JB mentioned that if you clean your tank glass every day perhaps your tank water contains too much nutrients!(He goes almost 7 days without cleaning his)My questions is I once filled my tank with freshly NSW(water was collected a few miles from the shore)how comes the next day my tank glass needed to be clean?Maybe our tank water is actually more clean that NSW?Is it the heavy skimming we do?The ozone we use?Activated carbon?I'm thinking now that perhaps we're providing our corals with much cleaner water that there are from?TIA

VINA

Why would you belive that the water a few miles off the Atlantic coast has less nutrients than freshly mixed ASW? NSW can also vary greatly in quality when pulled from the shore (I think the shore is considered a hundred miles or so). I believe aquariums that use NSW filter it, as well as run it through things like UV and such to "clean" it up before going in tanks. Also I would assume the ocean water in Indonesia is different from what we have here in the east and even west coast. That's really the only explanation I can give you as to why the ocean water might have high nutrients.

[Easily Distracted]

Isn't there also a certain amount of die-off within the first 48hrs of collecting NSW?

[John Brancheau]

Your welcome,

I understand the weekly stuff, in fact I change 30 gallons a week on my 180 and run carbon and a polyfilter which get changed out weekly also, but I have t tell you, I cannot let my tank glass go without a wipe for more than 3 days.

I do feed rather heavily though, and I stopped running my phos remover after my humulis started to close up its polyps.

I may have forgotten, but do you run ozone or uv?


John

[JB NY]

Maybe you need to kick start it. Do like two 20% changes in a week or so then go back to the weekly. See if that helps.

I run ozone.

[John Brancheau]

Thanks Joe,

I will give it a try.


John

[SeanT]

Just wanted to throw my hat in the pro-filter sock ring.
I really love my socks.
I have four socks (ony on in operation at a time) and change them out 2-3 times a week.
Yes, it is an added step. However, the bits of hair algae, sand, and other crud found in them during the change out, I know isn't going back into my tank.

But I completely agree with all of you in the need to change them frequently. If not, its the same as the good old bio-balls.

[1234]

I have 4 100 micron socks that i rotate out every 2-3 days, so there is no chance of that stuff in there starting to break down.

Joe - what brand of charcoal are you usiing? And is it in a fluidizer type reactor or just in a bag?

Awsome tank again and you are doing it right.

G-money - how about a picture of that sump?

[Tom Berry]

JB,

regarding the chaetomorph in your refugium, it is doing well, isn't it? Unless I am missing something, this would indicate that your phosphates are still high enough to keep the chaeto alive.

Has anyone had the macroalgae in their refugium die as a result of using Rowaphos or similar products?

Tom

[JB NY]

I mainly don't use the filter socks just because I don't feel like changing them every few days. I tried to setup the system to not need them. So far I'm happy with the setup with out sponges or filters, but as long as you change them out I don't think they are a problem.

1234I use black diamond charcoal.

Tom, My chaeto is growing but really, really slow. I'm sure there is some phosphates in the water column that is letting it grow. But so far not that much that any other algae is really growing anywhere else.

[JB NY]

So here is a picture of the end of the tank a few days later. I'll clean the glass today. It's been 7 days since I last cleaned it and here is what it looks like from the end. I taped a piece of white paper and wrote "Can you read this?" on the far end 6 feet away.

[TurboRook]

Show off!

[JB NY]

With the summer coming up, I just wanted to point out a little bit about my philosophy about temperature.

I keep my reef at 82F in the peak of summer and 78F during winter. While I am aware that some recognized people recommend keeping a reef tank at higher temperatures, as high as 85F. I choose not to, for a few reasons. Most importantly, because my tank is not a real reef in the Pacific. Because it is not a real reef, I have higher nutrient levels, less lighting, less current and more chances for stress to become a factor than the real environment from which these animals come from. By keeping a higher temperature, I feel you run a higher risk from bleaching and other maladies than at a lower temp. Real bad things can happen to your animals when temperatures go higher than 85-86F. How bad, depends on your tank and the condition of the animals within it. Slightly stressed animal could RTN, bleach or suffer some other ill fate if the temperature goes too high. The same animals, if conditions are different might not. For me, I have too much invested and am too interested in preserving the lives of these animals, than to risk them with higher temperatures.

Also, I feel that people with more experience in reef keeping will have better success at keeping their animals at higher temperatures. Experienced aquarists know their tank and what to look for when observing corals in a captive environment. Having said this, I feel it is bad advice to tell people who are new to the hobby that they should maintain their reefs at these high levels. Inexperience when maintaining a reef tank at high temperature has a much greater chance of disaster than recommending a lower temperature. As the person matures in their ability to maintain a tank, then if they choose, they can raise the target temperature.

[64Ivy]

Originally posted by JB NY
I keep my reef at 82F in the peak of summer and 78F during winter. While I am aware that some recognized people recommend keeping a reef tank at higher temperatures, as high as 85F. I choose not to, for a few reasons. Most importantly, because my tank is not a real reef in the Pacific.

Funny, but I found myself the receipient of some friendly criticism for this very thing (I keep my tank between 76.9F and 78F year round) just a couple weeks ago. The critics' declaration was that I was not maintaining, 'real reef' temps. My response was if this were a real reef, I'd be on its real beach with a real beer hoping a couple of real cuties in real thongs would be setting up a real volleyball net close by. But since I'm here talking to you, I guess both the corals and I will have to live with the disappointment of what we've got.

Another reason I choose to keep my tanks this low is to circumvent my own ineptitude. For instance, there have been two times when, after maintenance, I've forgotton to turn my chillers back on. After several hours, my temps had risen to the low 80s. Of course, any six degree temperature swing will stress the corals but can you imagine what going from, say, 82 to 88 could've done? Or 85 to 91? Fortunately, they didn't have a long term problem with the swings they had to endure.

And and speaking of long term problems, I also hear that I am doing my corals long term damage by keeping my temps this low. To that, I can only respond by pointing out the pieces I've had over 5 years now and relating my human error story above. So again, I maintain that stability moreso than some magic setting is a key to success here. After all, does anyone really think that all of their corals were collected (or aquacultured) from areas with the exact same temperature to begin with?

[jackson6745]

I just cleaned my glass though

[Frick-n-Frags]

Just contemplating what the corals go through out in the ocean, I would guess that the water chemistry stays really stable, but I think temperature can take big swings, especially when tides come in and out and lagoon areas get flushed through the surrounding reefs. Not to mention areas that get low-tided.

So IMO, if any one parameter can slide, it is the constant temp one. But still, the temps should stay reasonable like always between 75º and 85º or so. My system has survived short term 90º whoopsies. I personally believe that water quality is 90% of the game.

(fwiw, I do like it best when my tanks are at 78º-79º, 85º makes me nervous for sure)

[G-money]

Originally posted by 1234
G-money - how about a picture of that sump?

Here's a pic of the whole thing:


Let me know if you'd like close-ups of the sections.

[alanseah]

Hi G-Money,

Maybe you can explain what is that u things that is flowing out of water...
I have something like that but I still have these bubble...

[G-money]

double...

[G-money]

The U-thing is my skimmer output.
It reduces bubbles, splash, and keeps a mostly constant backpressure on the output so the skimmer column water level doesn't fluctuate.

The tank return is in the far left compartment.

[MK Reefer]

I completely agree with frags..

Corals have temperature swings in the wild, with tides and everything he mentioned. I think we are obssessed with keeping a locked tempearature.. Swings are okay and I would argues that 3-4 degreed swings are natural.

I have seen many pictures of huge reef shelf completely out of the water in low tide and they do fine. Now that a temp change..

Just my 2c

Mike

[MiddletonMark]

The temperature question is an interesting one ... but the point I have to raise is:

While some temp. swings would be expected in the ocean - I tend to wonder if our daily swings [in un-chilled tanks in summertime] ... done every single day ... are a problem. Sure, a couple swings a week, but a daily 78-82 swing?

I guess I fall in between. I've had swings, had things seem to not even notice ... but also feel like I've gotten best response when for a few weeks the temp never varies more than a degree, two max.

I'm on the fence with temp, I guess. Seems like some swings are ok, no problem. But yet there's got to be a point to where it's too much [never mind the chemistry changes, O2 availability changes] that vary at diff. temps.

[Scuba Dog]

I wonder if our tank kept corals...adapt to the daily tempature swings? Especaly the 3rd 4th 5th generation frags and so on.

[Chondro]

Originally posted by JB NY
So here is a picture of the end of the tank a few days later. I'll clean the glass today. It's been 7 days since I last cleaned it and here is what it looks like from the end. I taped a piece of white paper and wrote "Can you read this?" on the far end 6 feet away.
*removed image*

My glass looks like that after only 24 hours from the time I cleaned it.

What can be wrong?

Here are some specs.
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate=0 on seachem test kit.
Phosphate= undetectable on seachem test kit.
Alk = 9 Dkh (Salifert)
Ca= 420 (Salifert)
Mag = 1300 (Salifert)

I do a 20 gallon water change every 5-6 days (5 times a month)
(I siphon out and add in at the same time, so it's really not a complete 20g switch)
My clean up crew consists of 30 astrea snails. Tank is 40g.

My rocks are immaculate, it's just the glass., there are some spots on the back glass that I can't reach and they have become VERY green.
The algae is not hair, or the "bristley" bryopsis (sp?), just green.
No sunlight hits the tank either.

I only have three 1" long fish, so I feed sparingly, mainly frozen mysis, and frozen seaweed (emerald entree').
I do feed Cyclop ezee twice a week too.

I have been having this problem since I upgraded to this tank, which has been about 4 months, but the water quality always checks out OK.


Any ideas would be appreciated, Thanks.

[Dag]

I meet the parameters and still can't keep SPS. I'm hoping it's because my tank is only 1 year old, and with time I'll have better success.

[redFishblue]

Dag, not sure it's the age of your tank (since it is 1 year old) that you are having some difficulty with sps. Its definitely possible to keep them much sooner. Hope you figure it out and good luck.