I am ready to give up and leave the hobby over this.

[jpfelix]

those skimmers can be bad about letting bubbles into your tank.

[derick75]

no the skimmer was off... does not matter right now as I took a light in the sump and saw more microbubbles then i previously had. When i feed the fish i turn off the sump if i dont all the food will be sucked down the overflow by doing that i also have to shut of skimmer or i will overflow. When i turn the sump back on i will get tons of bubbles back into the tank which is normal is that how every one else does it??? I can think of no other way around that. At this point i will try to put a baffle in the sump that is the hardest part for me right now.

The built in baffle does very little. Is there anything else that can be used i was thinking of using like 10 bags of chemi pure and build a wall that should stop thoose damn bubbles

[derick75]

i am going to do another video with a stronger light that should help out

[derick75]

in this next video you can really see the microbubbles in the tank at the end of the video. Perhaps i can get several large filter socks and like i said make a wall not sure what i can put in them . They would have to be large and alot of carbon or phosphate sponge or something in them. I have yet to see a sponge that is large enough to be effective .need help on that one

reef 2

[derick75]

i was told to take my mag 350 micron cartridge and cut it in half then put it over my pump intake hmm any thoughts on that

[Juice11604]

Have you tried a bubble defuser.

[derick75]

yes tried that eithier a new sump bigger or a good baffles sytem is the only way i think

[jdieck]

OK That baffle in the sump is worthless. For a quick fix try the plastic bucket trick. Holes at the bottom. Use some live rock to wight it out and slow the water flow. Do it in a way that no water overflows the bucket and also lower the sump water level to right below the baffle.



The bubbles when the pump start is because the return line empty by draining back to the sump and when draining because your loc line is below the surface you also drain more water from the main than needed thus overflowing your sump.
To prevent the syphon back if you want your loc-line submerged try drilling a 1/8" hole at the highest point in the under side of the return line.

Now to prevent the line from getting empty returning so many bubbles install a swing check valve at the pump discharge.
The check valve alone will also prevent the syphon but the hole in the return line will save you in case it fails.

[derick75]

i am going to go over your directions and see what i can do will get back soon with a update thanks....derick

[derick75]

Ok a few questions, as you saw in the video when i turned my sump back on, i had a huge amount of bubbles that because like you said, the return line was empty. So if i Install a check valve it will prevent the water from draining because the valve only alows water to go up not down. I can only instal the check valve right under the tank right below the bulkhead so i will still have about 1.5 feet of empty tubing right? So i will still have a little amout of presure going back into the sump..So after the check valve is installed there should be no water draining into the sump right? If that is the case that is a awesome idea.

I have seen thoose check valves for air pumps thoose tiny ones but never seen any that would install on a 3/4" tubeing. Where might I find one.

Is a swing valve the same thing i am thinking about, the ones used on air pumps ??

Last question if i slow the water down to much in the sump my pump will run dry so i have to find that happy medium so to speak i tried to lower the water in the first chamber but it wiockly overfilled and just went about 2 inches above the baffle anyway.
So perhaps the bubket in the sump will give me just the right flow.
This is some great ideas if i inderstand you corectly at least i will be able to turn the sump on and off with out scaring the crap out of my fish

[derick75]

all the check valves i seen are used with PVC so i would have to change my retuen from tube to pvs which means 45s and 90s hope thats not a bad thing

[taku]

Originally posted by asmujica
Well the sump is definetly too small for that amount of flow. The skimmer is also to near to the intake to the return pump. Try using a flaslight on the sump and I'll bet you have bubbles in there.

Go to www.melevsreef.com , he has information on how to build your own sump. There is also a recomended sump size calculator here on RCs homepage that should help you out.

i just wanted to comment if you have clear drinking glasses, you could quickly but gently scoop a glass full from the sump and hold it up in the aquarium bright light and see if there are microbubbles near the return pump intake.

[clamguy]

when i first started the hobby i had the same problem. i had a 75 with a tidepool2 sump. i had my skimmer in the sump and found i had to direct the water coming out of the skimmer as far away as i could from the return pump. i also would put a piece of filter material right where the water flows form the first chamber and overflows into the second. also if you have a reef set up with plenty of live rock you should get rid of the bio wheel. less airation. doing all those things stopped my bubble problem. hope it will help you.

[Beenalongtime79]

Either you fixed your problem or you've torn down the whole setup. Let us know.

Peace,
John H.

[derick75]

fixed the problem ?? I wish...i did many test countless plumbing doesnt matter. I plumbed the return with PVC. I was told to remove check valve remove ball valves cant have any 90's they produce cavitation well thats all wrong....Today I seen a sump with a check valve on the suction side with ball valves and 90's not one microbubble the guy has no baffles in his sump so i know that was not the problem the problem is this....

1. seio 620 bubbles
2.rio 50, 200,600 all produce bubbles
3. mag 7 bubbles
4. mag9.5 produce bubbles
5. maxxi jet 1200 produce bubbles
6. posidon t3 bubbles
7. magnum 350 filter....bubbles
8. rena xp3 filter bubbles
9 closed loop bubbles
10. fluval 405 bubbles
11. Inline filter forget name..they produced microbubbles
12. 50gph UV microbubbles

I took my 20 gallon tank filled it with fresh salt water half way and stuck in the seio and rios and maxxi jets one at a time and there was no microbubbles...
no matter what goes into the tank it if produces flow it produces microbubbles to all those who say you need air well it must be saturated in my water. I hate my tank right now 7 years in the hobby and never had this problem

[Beenalongtime79]

derick,

Sorry to hear that man... it really sounds like your tank is stuck in some type of bizarro world where microbubbles are the norm rather than the exception.

I wish I could see the setup myself. Aren't there any knowledgeable people around you that won't charge you an arm and leg (come and check it out for free) to come and take a look at the setup?

[derick75]

only one guy i found and it turns out he screwed me. He used a "leak detector" on the pipes and found no air coming in charged me 90 bucks for it. Leak detector my ***... I am convinced there is too much air in the water or somethings in the water.. I use DI water only this is what i use
perhaps i will switch to a kent RO system doubt it will help

20 dollars a filter i get 25-30 gallons per filter dollar a gallon time to switch to a ro

[derick75]

my water parameters 0 nitrite 0 ammonia 5-8 ppm nitrate calcium 420 akalinity no clue PH 8.0 low....i know...phosphate have no clue but use phosban and change it every 4 days been doing that for 2 months and still have that damn velonia bubble aglae hey bubble algae go figure the bubble tank from hell

[BrainBandAid]

Originally posted by derick75


I took my 20 gallon tank filled it with fresh salt water half way and stuck in the seio and rios and maxxi jets one at a time and there was no microbubbles...
no matter what goes into the tank it if produces flow it produces microbubbles to all those who say you need air well it must be saturated in my water. I hate my tank right now 7 years in the hobby and never had this problem

I think you've hit the nail on the head... it sounds to me like your water is definetly saturated. All the problem bubbles are not helping this, obviously, but are they a symptom or a cause? You may need to let your tank "de-gas" to effectively troubleshoot this.
What's the longest period you've had no flow anywhere in the tank? Does the time the bubbles take to reappear increase with the length of time the flow has been off? Or is it always instant? This may or may not lend credit to the saturation theory. But that just leads to more questions.

Usually, there is a noise associated with cavitation, as the liquid flows quickly from high pressure to lower pressure, the gasses kind of "explode" out of solution. This usually causes some damage to the impeller, as the micro explosions take little chunks of impeller with them. Maybe take a look at your impellers if they've been running for some time. It also makes a sound like there's rocks in your pump. But it sounds like you've already determined it's not cavitation.

Maybe try a reverse leak test: find a (reef safe) dye, maybe food coloring, and slowly and carefully brush your fittings and piping with it. If it is getting sucked in somewhere, you'd (hopefully) see it downstream. It's not unheard of for PVC piping and/or tubing to have micro cracks in them.

One more experiment: get a length of new tubing and simply syphon into the sump, and plug up your overflow. I know this sounds crazy but I'm sure you'll try anything about now. This should effectively isolate your current overflow. You could move the drain end of the tubing anywhere in the sump to try and isolate different sections/baffles. Obviously, it would be very difficut to balance the syphon/pump return, but it's worth a thought. You might have to use different size tubing to get it right.

Just for &%#*'s and grins, try positioning your pump discharge as close to the return on the tank as possible, and run the pump suction to a hose/tubing/pipe to the sump. The pump should be able to pump fine like this as long as it's properly primed. The total dynamic head is the same. I really have no idea what this will do/prove, but it's something different. Try piping the pump closed loop, ie. eliminate the whole sump.

Again, any change you make or setup you try would have to be in operation long enough for the saturated gasses to dissipate and the solution to return to "normal".
The more saturated it is, the easier it is to come out of saturation. If you try something new, it may not be apparent immediately that the cause is gone.

You may have already found the problem, but dismissed your troubleshooting because the problem did not dissappear right away, and then reintroduced the problem!

I am a complete aquarium newb, but I trouble shoot centrifugal pumps and (poop)water systems for a living. If any of this sounds way out of line, please let me know. Just thought I'd throw somethings out I haven't read here yet. And I'm really tired, so cut me some slack And lay off me speling. It's late

My best advise is, and this goes for just about any trouble shooting, eliminate everything you possibly can. EVERYTHING. There is nothing too small, nothing too insignificant, 'cause at this point, anything can be the problem, and 80% of the time, it's the stupidest, simplist thing that makes you want to kick yourself in the pants.
Start big. Eliminate as much as you can in one operation. The whole tank. The whole sump. Then break it down from there. Try the stupid, try the obvious, recheck things. There may be multiple problems at once, and fixing one won't do anything. And take a good break every once and a while.

Good luck and keep us informed... I hope this wasn't useless babble.

[derick75]

useless babble? no way it took a long time to write all that, I have gone 24 hours without any flow and it did not help at all. Its 12 30 in the morning and the only thing left i can think of is to drain 100 gallons of water and buy the catalina salt water already mixed for 10 dollars for 5 gallons lets see 200.00 to fill my tank nah bad idea... how do i get the air out? I dont understand what is going on with the water wish i could test it disolved oxygen i dont know i have something wrong with it, just waiting for new ideas, i have tried all the plubing ideas everything spent alot of money on hoses hose barbs pvc pumps powerheads filters all that crap they all produced the bubbles...

maybe i will look into disolved oxygen i dont know...

[Mike.B]

Do you have a lot of algae in your tank?

Reason I ask is because when I was going through my algae phases there was a ton of micro bubbles...

[jdieck]

This is really puzzling, I know all the piping changes you made and still bubbles.
When you tested the powerheads in your tank did you tried them upside down to insure there was no trapped air inside?
In any case I suspect something in your water is acting as a surfactant (as if you were using a dechlorinator with slime coat)
the strange thing is when that happens usually your skimmer bubbles like crazy which does not seem to be the case.
If the water becomes supersaturated with gases is basically an issue of pumping air into it or as mentioned above a lot of algae is over staurating it.
Does it behaves the same at lights off?

[outy]

its been said before and looking at the video

that is one small sump theres no way to keep the bubbles out

very nice tank though its sweet

[derick75]

Let me say i am very "anal" about the way the tank looks besides the bubble issue, I change 10 % of water a week... clean the glass twice a day, the plastic lens for the light get cleaned every 2 days, like i said i use the DI water filter and yes i have hair algae and alot of bubble algae after i put the tang and 20 hermits i have little hair algae but the 2 emaralds dont eat the valonia. So every day i remove the valonia by hand carefully not to burst them today i dumped out over a cup of them but they still mulitiply so yes i have a algae problem. Phosban does not seem to help nor does chemi clean or carbon or my skimmer cant get rid of the valonia. So to sum it up only problems i see with my tank is the valonia, low ph 8.0 day 7.6 7.7 at night despite the marine buffer added every night.

[derick75]

my sump is 30 gallon rubbermaid with 400gph should be fine no bubbles now i am using herbies method which is great should of done that in the first place...thanks for the comment though


since that video i did about 15 return pump changes 2 sumps and a different pump