American Reef Lighting vs Japanese Reef Lighting - Here it is!

[absolutc]

Bluereefs:

Ask away! Thats why he is here

Please, if anyone is going to start anything on this thread, leave. I don't want analitical debates on he said, he said. Let people make their own conclusions.

However, thank you for providing the data.

[G-money]

absolut,

I hope you are not referring to my posting Mr. Tyree's bit. I simply noticed some earlier interest in flourescing pigments and lighting. What I linked is not an analytical "debate". It is scientific study - much of which was conducted outside the hobby before being applied to the hobby. I would think that everyone would have a vested interest in it. It is acquired from years of research, not "he said, he said". I am not "dissing" anybody, merely providing information on the topic.

As I stated (with apparent foresight), beyond providing for the corals' survival, it's up to you what you do. I don't care if you put strobe lights over your tank...

[Jorsan]

Yasuhiro,

WELCOME! we're all glad to have you here and share some of ours experiences in the hobby, GREAT!

After answer some of the questions that you have about lighting, why not talk about your tank? some of us are impressed by the difference in the design; in the US all the tanks comes with central brace or even "euro-braces" (braces around the tank) but yours does not have any of this reinforcements; why is that?, is normal in your country? is because the use of thicker glass or maybe difference in the dimmensions (maybe more "cube style")?.

Thanks for your answers and welcome again!

[SPC]

Poted by absolutc:
Please, if anyone is going to start anything on this thread, leave. I don't want analitical debates on he said, he said. Let people make their own conclusions.

-Huh? When I read a thread title that says "American Reef Lighting vs Japanese Reef Lighting" I expect to see some "analytical debate". You can't possibly expect to start a thread like this and not have people debate the merits of both can you?
Steve

[absolutc]

All im saying is, keep the slinging to a minimum Nothing more!
Have fun, but play nice.

[bluereefs]

Hi Yasuhiro
What kind of sand bed you use(sand granulations and sand height)and how you keep your sand so clean?
Do you use aditives and what kind?
What is the name for that beautifull purple/blue soft coral?Is he photosintetic?
Do you have some non photosintetic soft coral and do you have luck with them?
Thank you

[Yasuhiro]

I am deeply grateful to that Absolutc and other ReefCentral members welcomed me.
I am sorry that a reply is overdue, because of day and night are reversed in Japan and the U.S.
I'd like to tell first of all that I don't think Japanese reefkeeping style is better than the style of the U.S.. Of course, there is much approach to keep a reef tank.
As for the coral of Japan and the U.S., a kind is different in many cases. I am glad if information of reefkeeping exchange and a style of Japanese reefer can be introduced.
I do hope that information can be exchanged other than lighting.

Absolutc,
I'm very grateful to invite me to this forum.
I was surprised to learn that this online community is very big and hopeful and members in the community are very active.
Thanks again.

Alan,
How do you do?

Would you please share your thoughts on:
-- Spot lighting as compared to general flood lighting
(I have been a proponent of non-uniform lighting for some time)
-- Focused lighting and also use of filtering to reduce the transmission to the tank of IR (infra red = long wave length = heat)

I think there is not so much difference with general flood lighting and spot lighting if spotlight is detached from the water surface compared with floodlight.
Because the quantity of the light irradiated into the tank is almost the same and IR is irradiated not only from light but also from lamp case and covered glass.
The first reason I am using spotlight is that it is easy to adjust an angle and height individually.


Jorsan,
In Japan, There is a glass tank and an acrylic tank. An acrylic tank may be disliked because of its reinforcement and weakness to a scratch.
Central brace will block or reduce light. But a large glass tank is more expensive than acrylics tank also in Japan.
I like no branch glass tank, because it seems to have cut off a part of natural reef.

Bluereefs,
I use CaribSea Araga Max select, which size of granule is 1-2 mm and height is about 2-3 inch.
I do nothing special for keep sand clean. 40-50 hermit clean sand.
I think that sufficient water current to the surface of sand is useful to keep sand clean.
Sufficient water current and good water condition will increase and stabilize marine bacteria of sand surface (live-sand). I anticipate that sand, which is coated with bacterial film, may reduce algae's multiplication.

Purple/blue soft coral in my tank is Nephthea chabroli.
It is photosynthetic and it is not required any food. They are distributed from Okinawa-Japan and Indonesia.
I also have a few non-photosynthetic soft coral, but it is difficult for me to grow up them in my tank.

Thank you.

[Jorsan]

Thanks for your response Yasuhiro but, here we think that glass tanks needs braces (center or around) to keep the integrity of the tank. Is normal there to have tanks without braces, or is just a matter of your taste?; do you have or hear about problems with tanks not having braces?

[David Groos]

I believe that the glass tanks that he is referring to have a lip of glass that goes around the upper perimeter instead of the black plastic that adorns the top of most american tanks. It is very common in Europe as well. Much the way that acrylic tanks have an acrylic lip around the edge. The glass strip acts as a reinforcement for the glass walls. Personally I wish that we could find tanks like that here!!

Yasuhiro,
Are fish such as the humatu angels that you have common in your country? Or are they still extremely rare? Until looking at your website the only picture I had seen was of a perserved specimen.

Dave

Any luck finding where we could get some lamp fixtures such as yours here in the States?

[Yasuhiro]

Hi Jorsan,
There is normal to have glass tanks without brace in Japan. There are a few tanks with euro-brace but I have never seen a tank with center brace in Japan.
I have heard that water leaked from the crevice between silicone when using old tank.
Recently, since adhesion technology improved, I have heard no trouble.

David,
In Japan, glass tank commonly has no lip around the upper perimeter. It has made from just only 5 glass plate and silicon
Hotumatua pygmy angels are also very rare in Japan. They are distributed once or twice a year.
I don't know how many Hotumatua angels came to japan a year. I approximate it about 20-30 fish.

[Jorsan]

David,
As you can see, not just Yasuhiro have problems with the lenguage but some of us too.
Yes, you explain very well what I want to say. My point is to know if its possible to have a tank like the one that he has; for me looks much better than any of our tanks and if that's possible, will be great to have one custom made. Maybe the trick is in the thickness of the glass, maybe have to be square and not rectangular (as someoine mention before); dont know.

[Duce]

Yasuhiro
Welcome.
On your site there is this pink soft coral in fav003.jpg. Is it a what we call Carnation over here? If so what do you feed it and how often.
As well can you pls share some auqa scaping philosophy in Japan.
I am a big fan of Takashi Amano and I am wondering does people
employ similar philosophy or other.
Thanks.

[Wazzel]

Yasuhiro

I was wondering what method of filtration do you use? What are the current methods used in Japan?

Thanks

Mark

[Yasuhiro]

Duce,

How do you do?
The soft tree coral you are asking for is 'Nephthea chabroli'. I am sorry I don't know its common name in U.S. It is photosynthetic and feeding is not required. They are distributed from Okinawa-Japan and Indonesia. It has many color variations such as pink,yellow, purple, white and green.
This soft coral is fairly easy to care for. All that is needed is the right light and strong water flow.

By the way, I am a fan of Amano,too. His aquarium is very beautiful.


Wazzel,
I use Berlin method. I use calcium carbonate reactor, protein skimmer,metal halide light, strong water flow and live-rocks.
In Japan, Various methods are used such as Berlin method,Monaco system,dry, wet and dry/wet.

[Ewan]

Welcome Yasuhiro.

It's so good to have a Japanese perspective on the board. Your tank has been a favorite of mine for a very long time. I visit your web site often.

Could you expand on the Monaco system? I am not familiar with it.

As you may have gathered, many of us are very fond of the deep sand bed for controlling water quality. In addition to this, I also use an oversized protein skimmer. I am a very big fan of the berlin method, but I find so much diversity in the deep sand bed. It's an entire microcosm that I've overlooked in the past.

Thanks for your input. Your lighting makes my jealous

E.

[Oppsea]

Yasuhiro,
Thank you for your fast response.

We all have so many questions for you, please be patient with us and respond as you choose to enjoy, do not make this a bad chore for you.
Since you may in our minds, some times at least, represent an entire nation, we must keep in mind you are one very kind fellow aquariest.

I feel I must wait for the others to ask more questions first as most are far more knowledgeable than me and I can learn from them.

Alan

[bluereefs]

Monaco or Jaubert style is similar to plenum system but without skimmer.

[anathema]

I have been following this thread somewhat, although I haven't had time to read all of it I see that many of you are missing a very big point.

People are going on and on about the reflectors being inefficient, or how he could replace all of those small bulbs with one large one. The reflectors this guy is using do EXACTLY what he wants, especially when used with small, aimable lights.

Ask yourself why people don't like perpendicular reflector mounting.

The reason is because it focuses the light much more than horizontal mounting. It's not that you lose so much intensity, but that the intensity of the lights is focused on a much smaller area. If you are trying to light your entire aquarium with one or two bulbs, then this sucks.

However, if you want to be able to control which areas of your tank get what light, this is perfect. This is the point of so many low wattage lights. Not only does he want perfect spread, but he wants to have control of it.

Imagine, instead of mounting a coral where it gets appropriate lighting and may not look best, mounting wherever you want and adjusting the focus of your lights to suit that location. Instead of having an all SPS reef and having too much light for anything else to live you could focus the light on the animals that need it and still have dimmer areas with different lights focused on them.

This also doesn't even begin to address the color issue either. In almost every single "I've switched bulbs" post I have read, the person mentions one coral that looks better, and one that looks worse. Maybe more. So why not have the best of all worlds?

You can call it a total waste, but then if you look at it that way, so is a 20K bulb. All it does is make things look better, it's not any better for the animal than a plain 5000K MH.

[gregt]

Yasuhiro,


To Reef Central

[Yasuhiro]

I am very thankful for many welcome messages from RC members.

Ewan,

As Bluereefs told about, Monaco or Jaubert style is a one of balanced aquarium which need no water exchange.
This method is used in Monaco National Aquarium. They have a patent of this method.
It is similar to Berlin method with plenum, but it has not a skimmer.
I think that the latest plenum system is developed from this method. It is suitable for soft coral.

I am also interested in deep sand bed style. Some of the reefer in Japan used deep sand bed.
But I have not use this style yet. Its demerit is to reduce height of tank inside.
A height of my tank is only 26 inches, so it is difficult for me to use deep sand bed.

Anathema,
I think that your opinion is very precious.

Gregt,
What a nice attractive fish met me! Thank you very much.

[Fourseahorsemen]

Sorry to see this thread die. Some great exploration and good to here from another international perspective. I am still interested in trying some dicomic sp? MR16's to help accent color. Anyway, I am an architect and sent this thread to a lighting vendor I use for buildings. I thought her perspective might be interesting to some others so here is the text:

"I just realized that the site you hyperlinked me to is a series of

e-mails on the discussion of certain lamps.



1st you might to inform your associates that when they selected their

lamps they need to be concerned with more factors than just wattage ( which

is an electrical measurement for HEAT) and “K’s� or Kelvin temperatures.



When selecting a lamp … especially the newer ‘designer’ lamps, which

some of you seem to be getting into … what they need to be looking

at is the “Lumen� package. This is the lighting worlds measurement of

how much TRUE light is being produced by the lamp. We now have

many energy efficient lamps which use less WATTAGE and produce

More LUMENS … they could actually be selling them selves short

otherwise. This could also help with some of the heat issues.



Regarding “k� or Kelvin temperature in lamps … this describes

the range of color this lamp will enhance …BUT again be careful,

only selecting a lamp for it’s Kelvin properties is very misleading.

Lighting designers are also very concerned with the CRI of lamps

( Color rendering index). This is a more accurate designation of

how the lamp enhances color … but the CRI is an AVERAGE…

and you must be careful with this information. I am attaching

a couple of simple lamp explanations, which you way wish to pass

on to your friends.



Your one associates comment on the reflected light “burning� his

Plants is very possible. Reflected light can be highly concentrated …

Thin of a magnifying glass and the son … when a ray of light

Is concentrated … which is what a reflector is designed to do,

If your plants are getting focused light … watch out !!



UV filters work wonders with lamps … but be aware, they have

a short life. Typically there is a UV coating on a lenses ..

either glass or acrylic. ( I highly recommend glass .. it

can withstand the heat better.) This UV coating will

circum to the heat as well and will break down over

time. Most art museums which utilize glass lenses replace

them about every 3-4 years. Acrylics will be lucky to last

1 year.



Last, but not least …. HQI is a manufacturer’s designation for

a double ended style metal halide lamp. That designation is also

used by OSRAM SYLVANNIA here in the states. These lamps

are usually considered more of a “designer� style and offer a

wide range of color temperatures. These lamps produce a

“blob’ of light that can be easily reflected with a small reflector

assembly. It’s compact size is probably beneficial in your

applications.



If any of you are seriously interested in learning more about lamps

GE ‘s lamp division has an awesome lighting development center

in Cleveland, Ohio … Nela Park. Everyone in the lighting industry

uses this as a staple for learning the latest technology on lamps.



Best regards.

Melinda

Now, lets discuss the effects of UV lighting on coral tissue. From what I have read in previous posts and let me preempt this comment by stating for all intensive purposes I am a novice to reef keeping see that some UV lighting is good for the colorization SPS corals. How would adding a fluorescent black light to your tank affect the corals? There is certainly enough UV light emitted by that kind of bulb. Actually and I could not tell you where, have heard some mention of that very subject. Has anyone else heard of this or tried it. I would be curious.

[Sweet N Sour]

Im currently doing a study on the effects of "black light" on a reef tank. Im running 2 tanks now. One with and one without. Black light emits mostly UV-A - non harmful radiation as compared to UV-B radiation, which is more harmful. Thus far, I have seen no ill-effects on the corals. The color in the corals are brighter. They also flouresce much brighter under the lights.

Basically a coral catches part of the spectrum, modifies it to a "color" it can use, and reflects that back, flouresces. Now, under black light, the colors are more intense because black light enhances this.

This all I have at this point that I can share.

Thank you for your comments sweet-n-sour. Please let me know what else you might find. I would be curious.

[pcmankey]

SweetnSour: What is the power output of the blacklights? Most blacklights are so weak there may be zero consequences of running them anyway.