My JBJ 28gal Nano Build Thread

[martinphillip03]

Ange, instead of using dry sand, why not add the packaged cycled sand. Also you can go to the pet store and get some of their sand to innoculate your sand. Good luck, and maybe a new tank and SPS only will be great. A challange though.

Marty

[MSeg]

Originally Posted by ange062

Im debating whether to start a new thread or just continue in this one as an "ange062 history of reefing" journal, lol. The RL30 is so similar to the NC28 that it doesn't make much difference.

Start a new thread! I think it would make sense as a guide for others, anyway. If they have a question on how you did one specific thing, in one specific tank, then they can look at your progress in it without going through another tank's information.

On the other hand, I suppose it's nice to have the entire experience in one thread, if only so that even more can be learned from it?


Will there be pictures of the moving process? I know it's already started, but I hope there are..

[ange062]

Originally Posted by martinphillip03

Ange, instead of using dry sand, why not add the packaged cycled sand. Also you can go to the pet store and get some of their sand to innoculate your sand. Good luck, and maybe a new tank and SPS only will be great. A challange though.

Marty

I want to start dry on everything in the new tank, less chance of pests that way. I love the challenge of SPS

Originally Posted by MSeg

Start a new thread! I think it would make sense as a guide for others, anyway. If they have a question on how you did one specific thing, in one specific tank, then they can look at your progress in it without going through another tank's information.

On the other hand, I suppose it's nice to have the entire experience in one thread, if only so that even more can be learned from it?


Will there be pictures of the moving process? I know it's already started, but I hope there are..

At this point there may not be a "next" thread. The move started out well, got everything sectioned into buckets and all looked no worse for wear...











While everything was apart I cleaned EVERYTHING from pumps to skimmer to stand. The old sand was discarded and the tank also fully cleaned.

Fish, clams, and corals all looked normal in there transport buckets. And then the move. To be continued....

[ange062]

So let me take a step back. Before the move, I figured out a plan for ghetto rigging the Radion over the NC28. Some 1/4" threaded rod (10ft length) looked easy to setup so I picked that up and some of the sticky zip tie mounts (i.e. those that come with the MP10 to fasten the cord in place). Figured 3 for each side of the mount attached to the rear of the tank would suffice. Picked up a bunch of buckets with lids while I was there as well.

The last pics of the setup as it originally existed. Sorry for the awful quality, was too hectic a day to spend time on photog skills, haha.





So I moved the stand and tank to the new location first, no problem. Ghetto rigged the light up, and that seems to be working great so far. So where did things start going wrong? My mistakes:

1) Not getting 25gal of extra SW like I had originally planned (dumb)
2) Getting CaribSea Pukani sand instead of the reef sand I originally used
3) Putting the aggressive CBS in with the fish without thinking

Moving the buckets of livestock also went over well. One bucket had all fish, shrimp, a couple of lbs of LR, and my ORA kelley green. Another had my clams, rics, a plate coral recently taken from my work pico, along with some LR. Another had a ton of LR and all my snails. And the last had my big stylo and a bunch of zoas.

In the new setup I dumped some of the chunky shell based pukani sand in, and covered with what I had left from the bag of reef sand from the original setup, so far so good.

So the plan for draining and removing livestock from the top worked well. I hadn't thought far ahead enough to work out how I would refill the tank in the same fashion, it just straight up didn't work and I was scavenging for water to get filtration running. First I added the non-coral inhabited LR from one bucket, and threw in all the snails. I only had 7g extra SW on hand, but added that next. After that, I had to throw in all the soft corals so get the water out of the buckets to get the tank filled. I didn't quite get there, so had to scavenge from the clam bucket, then finally stockpile all my most important livestock (clams/fish) into a single bucket. With this I finally managed to get enough to get a single Eheim running again, as well as the skimmer.

The skimmer went nuts for 2 cups, then finally started to settle down. The skimmate smelled like straight up ****ed off coral, if you know what I mean. Decided I needed to get the reactors going (especially the GAC) to filter out whatever junk was in the water. The tank was a bit cloudy at first (I washed all the dry sand thoroughly first), and cleared quickly. The soft corals were ****ED though. Slime everywhere, and my rics have all enclosed on themselves just like if you have ever used aptasia-X on a mojano or aptasia. Not a good sign. Further, the nassarius and cerith snails can't borrow into the shell based sand, so they are just wondering around aimlessly. Stylo showed a bit of PE for a while, but now is also looking equally ****ed. The BN was just about dead so I tossed it.

I figured it was best to leave my important stuff in the 5g bucket for the next few hours. I'll see how the tank is looking in the AM and decide from there. LFS doesn't open till 12, but will be waiting at the door for some extra water. Good news is that water tests for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate all still are coming up zero on both the bucket and the tank.

And as to the comment on "no next tank", after this 14-hr moving debacle which is far from complete, the thought of setting up another tank in a 6-mo temporary residence seems absolutely insane to me. At this point I'm ready to sell everything off and start from scratch once I have a permanent residence.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm sure most won't read, but that's my overview of the happenings today.

[Gagonzalez]

I understand your frustration having done a move 8 weeks ago myself. I did something that I thought worked out great, especially after thinking about it after I moved.

I used a 10g to hold all my fish, coral and as much rock that would fit along with an HOB filter w/rox carbon, purigen, sponge, heater set to same temp, etc.... I transferred 5g of tank water to it and had another 5g of new SW made up for it. I set it up on the counter at the new place and moved everything into it the day before the move. After that, it was pretty smooth. I moved the tank, water, rock and anything else that was there over in 5g buckets as quickly as possible. Once I setup the tank and stand, ditched old sand, put new sand in,, etc...... I then waited 24hrs for the sand to settle with whatever rock I had left over in my buckets along with about 10g of new made up saltwater. Meanwhile all my critters and stuff were safe and sound in my 10g hiding away in pretty much perfect water conditions with all that rock in a 10g. I must say the water was crystal clear!

Once everything was stable in the new tank location, I moved all the rock back, scaped and waited another 4 hrs or so for the sand to settle again. After that, I moved everything else over. Done.

I must say, it was much easier to work and think straight without having to worry about all my critters and fish. And everyone survived except for all my nassarius snails which became lethargic and didn't eat after the move. They all ended up dying about 3 weeks after the move. Very weird considering my florida ceriths are all ok.

Oh well. It happens. I think your next move will probably be a lot better now that you know what your dealing with so I wouldn't worry too much about moving again. I would, however, keep from adding anything new in the next 6 months and just wait it out until your back in to your place on a much more permanent basis to start your new tank up. You could get it up and cycle it with all your sand, rock and equipment but not get any livestock into it until you move. It is only 6 months and if you could possibly overlap your move-in with your move-out by a week, you could move the new cycled tank up and use it as the transfer tank. Would make it much easier. Good Luck!

[martinphillip03]

And as to the comment on "no next tank", after this 14-hr moving debacle which is far from complete, the thought of setting up another tank in a 6-mo temporary residence seems absolutely insane to me. At this point I'm ready to sell everything off and start from scratch once I have a permanent residence.

That isn't a bad idea. maybe you can get store credit from your local fish store.
Just keep the equiptment for the next tank. You can relax for six months and plan your next tank. Maybe a small sump is in your future.


Sorry for the ramble, I'm sure most won't read, but that's my overview of the happenings today.

I doubt that. This is a great thread. Every saltwater person has had their share of problems. I am sure the is alot of empthy for you at this time.

Good luck, Stay strong.

Marty


You will be suprised. This is a great thread.

[MSeg]

As far as I'm concerned, this has been a great -and highly educational- thread. The outcome's pretty unfortunate, but the experience was good, right? Martinphillip03's right, you can store the equipment for next time. And if, in the next six months, you give in to temptation and start a (hopefully simple) tank, it'll all be there!

I'm looking forward to your starting up again!

[ange062]

Thanks for the kind words guys, glad to hear the thread has had some kind of positive impact on people. All said and done, after the 14-hr move I was pretty frazzled and didnt react well to things looking poor. The skimmer eventually settled, and the fish, clams, and shrimp stayed in the bucket for about 24-hr. Today the main tank looked just about normal, and all the corals were back at it even with just household light (havent hooked the Radion back up yet). So I may have overreacted some as I feared the worst.

I got some more fresh SW at the LFS today, then drip acclimated the remaining bucket for about 45 min and tossed everything back in. Things seem to have gone back to normal. The clowns are in their corner, angel and dottyback doing their usual thing, snails have borrowed into sand, clams look normal, etc... Scape is a total mess, but whatever.

So at this point the only real casualty is my scarlet cleaner shrimp. His antennae and some front legs are all but missing. I don't know if the CBS got him or he got too familiar with the Eheim powerhead he was hiding under. Not sure if he will make it, but still eating and moving around, so there is a chance.

I'm feeling reinvigorated with the house move mostly over and what seems at this point to be a very successful tank move overall. I've got the Radion succesfully ghetto rigged onto my "holding tank" but not yet connected. The chiller and ATO are also not in place, but tank is hovering at a perfect 78 oddly enough.

So, RL30 is again sounding sexy, lol. May venture over to the LFS in a few days time.

And Marty, drfinitely agree every tank has it's ups and down, but this was by far the most challenging to date for me even though I've been through countless problems with the tank over the years.

Tank as it exists today:

[Raptor72]

Is that the Aquamaxx HOB skimmer? If so, how do you like it? I've been looking for a new skimmer for my JBJ 30RL and have been eyeing that one.

[MSeg]

I'm gonna have to say it: I got a little too excited at the fact that your tank is still doing (relatively) well!

I'm really glad to hear it! And I look forward to the updates! You'll be keeping the tank for now, right? If anything, now you know what not to do when you move in six months!

Congrats on getting it more or less set up again! And +1 to the waiting for it to cycle--hope that goes well, too!

[TprMoore]

Hey my friend,

Just caught up on your thread and I'm sorry about the move. It reminds me of my several weeks away from my tank to come back and see all my hard work and money down the drain. As you know, I started up a nano to keep my interest in the hobby, however, with time life got in the way and after about a year that too took a turn for the worst. As one mentioned a few posts earlier maybe taking a few months off isn't a bad idea. I start my first job after school in January and thought about starting my dream 60 gal cube build, however, the fact that I'll be living in an apartment, of which I'll eventually move out of, and be faced with the same obstacles as you makes me apprehensive to even start it in the first place. So, I guess the question you need to really ask yourself is will it all be worth it? Especially if you have to move in another 6mo-1yr, etc..


Wishing you the best my old friend!

SM

[ange062]

Originally Posted by Raptor72

Is that the Aquamaxx HOB skimmer? If so, how do you like it? I've been looking for a new skimmer for my JBJ 30RL and have been eyeing that one.

Love it, been using for over 2yrs now and have no complaints. I havent rigged it up on an RL30 yet becuase I havent bought an RL30 yet. Will let you know how that turns out shortly

For NC28 and HOB-1, check this thread out: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2027481

Originally Posted by MSeg

I'm gonna have to say it: I got a little too excited at the fact that your tank is still doing (relatively) well!

I'm really glad to hear it! And I look forward to the updates! You'll be keeping the tank for now, right? If anything, now you know what not to do when you move in six months!

Congrats on getting it more or less set up again! And +1 to the waiting for it to cycle--hope that goes well, too!

Yup, keeping it for now! Light and chiller are both setup again on the NC28 "holding tank" until I get the RL30 setup and cycled. Ill be working on selling off a lot of stuff until then so I can mostly start from scratch.

Originally Posted by moore1811

Hey my friend,

Just caught up on your thread and I'm sorry about the move. It reminds me of my several weeks away from my tank to come back and see all my hard work and money down the drain. As you know, I started up a nano to keep my interest in the hobby, however, with time life got in the way and after about a year that too took a turn for the worst. As one mentioned a few posts earlier maybe taking a few months off isn't a bad idea. I start my first job after school in January and thought about starting my dream 60 gal cube build, however, the fact that I'll be living in an apartment, of which I'll eventually move out of, and be faced with the same obstacles as you makes me apprehensive to even start it in the first place. So, I guess the question you need to really ask yourself is will it all be worth it? Especially if you have to move in another 6mo-1yr, etc..


Wishing you the best my old friend!

SM

What's up fella, long time no talk! Overall in retrospect, the move went pretty dang well. Lost the cleaner shrimp today but everything else looks happy and healthy after I got the Radion running again. Fish even ate a ton and have resumed their normal territories and behavior despite the drastically changed scape.

*fingers crossed* but I think I may have actually pulled the move off. Now to sell of some things, get the RL30 rolling, and start a new!

[Whysoserious]

Hey Ange, just read up on your status update. Seems everything is looking good so far with the transfer. I'll be looking forward to your update on the 30! Good luck again

[ange062]

Originally Posted by Whysoserious

Hey Ange, just read up on your status update. Seems everything is looking good so far with the transfer. I'll be looking forward to your update on the 30! Good luck again

Thanks! Ultimately everything but my cleaner shrimp pulled through the move. The whole tank, although totally rearranged, is looking very good. One lesson learned is that I'll be changing out the sand bed often on the next tank. Per previous research I'll use the Steve Weast method of vacuuming out and replacing about 1/8 of the sand bed with each water change. It was INSANE how nasty the sand was and I'm sure it at least partially contributed to my phosphate problems.

Anyway, a new chapter starts!

[martinphillip03]

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...psd959fd01.jpg

Ange, one thing I don't have is mad computer skills. I can delete this if you want.

Marty

[chad p]

Uh oh. The journey begins. Are you setting it up to cycle in your regular place or you going to move it back when it's all renovated?

What are your plans for the new cube? Give us a sneak peak into your vision for it.

[calistyle]

Can you give me more info on your sand swap? I hate my sand, would like to slowly remove it all and maybe add something not as fine.

In regards to your move, I found building a check list before hand, helped keep my on track during the process, especially if dealing with stressful situation.

Tank Move
On final water change before move, blow off rocks for any loose debris and siphon out during water change.

Supplies:

• 5 – 5 Gallon buckets w/ egg crate at bottom, lids for top
• 3 – 5 Gallon jugs of new salt water
• 2 – Air pumps w/ hose and air stones
• 2 – Heaters
• Shims / Level
• Prodibio Bio Digest & Prodibio STOP Ammo (to help control any ammonia/nitrate spike)

Plan:

Prior to Breakdown:
• Box up and supplies and un-used equipment in advance

Breakdown:
• Unplug and remove all equipment from aquarium
• Siphon 3 gallons of water at a time into 5 gallon buckets. As rock is exposed transfer to buckets (leaving corals attached), carefully placing on egg crate to keep from moving around
• Carefully remove fish using clear cups to a bucket with 3G of tank water and insert air stone
• Leave sand bed (30-35 lbs.), base rock (15-20 lbs.), and about 1 inch of water in tank

Once rock, coral, fish are secure in buckets:
• Transfer tank from stand to moving stand (custom build one w/ wheels, same height)
• Move the tank on the moving stand to truck
• Carefully move from moving stand to 2x4’s in back of SUV. Secure
• Have car running at 77 degrees
• Bring out buckets and secure in SUV
• Drive to new eco-stadium (house) very carefully, minding turns and proper route

Once at new location:
• First unload buckets of livestock into controlled temperature house and use heaters if temperature has dropped below 75 degrees.
• Setup stand in new location, verify tank is level (If not, use shims)
• Add 5G-10G of new salt water (due to loss of water)
• Test for leaks
• Stack rock back in place, adding old tank water as needed
• Setup equipment (pumps, skimmer, media)
• Use Prodibio Bio Digest & Prodibio STOP Ammo (if needed)
• Add fish and remaining 3G of tank water
• Monitor parameters
• Perform a system check on equipment
• Pray

[ange062]

Originally Posted by martinphillip03

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...psd959fd01.jpg

Ange, one thing I don't have is mad computer skills. I can delete this if you want.

Marty

Haha, thanks, but according to Family Guy "It's a party". Why stop now?

Originally Posted by chad p

Uh oh. The journey begins. Are you setting it up to cycle in your regular place or you going to move it back when it's all renovated?

What are your plans for the new cube? Give us a sneak peak into your vision for it.

It'll cycle in the new place, old place is out of the picture at this point. Right now, it's only a 6-mo lease but it'll probably end up going longer. No need to waste time! I pulled of a mostly successful move so when time comes again, I'll just figure it out.

Vision has an epic tank from "Best Tanks in the World" thread with a lot of open space and rock floating over sand. The only question is if I can pull something similar off in a nano. Rock will definitely be minimal.

Originally Posted by calistyle

Can you give me more info on your sand swap? I hate my sand, would like to slowly remove it all and maybe add something not as fine.

In regards to your move, I found building a check list before hand, helped keep my on track during the process, especially if dealing with stressful situation.

Tank Move
On final water change before move, blow off rocks for any loose debris and siphon out during water change.

Supplies:

• 5 – 5 Gallon buckets w/ egg crate at bottom, lids for top
• 3 – 5 Gallon jugs of new salt water
• 2 – Air pumps w/ hose and air stones
• 2 – Heaters
• Shims / Level
• Prodibio Bio Digest & Prodibio STOP Ammo (to help control any ammonia/nitrate spike)

Plan:

Prior to Breakdown:
• Box up and supplies and un-used equipment in advance

Breakdown:
• Unplug and remove all equipment from aquarium
• Siphon 3 gallons of water at a time into 5 gallon buckets. As rock is exposed transfer to buckets (leaving corals attached), carefully placing on egg crate to keep from moving around
• Carefully remove fish using clear cups to a bucket with 3G of tank water and insert air stone
• Leave sand bed (30-35 lbs.), base rock (15-20 lbs.), and about 1 inch of water in tank

Once rock, coral, fish are secure in buckets:
• Transfer tank from stand to moving stand (custom build one w/ wheels, same height)
• Move the tank on the moving stand to truck
• Carefully move from moving stand to 2x4’s in back of SUV. Secure
• Have car running at 77 degrees
• Bring out buckets and secure in SUV
• Drive to new eco-stadium (house) very carefully, minding turns and proper route

Once at new location:
• First unload buckets of livestock into controlled temperature house and use heaters if temperature has dropped below 75 degrees.
• Setup stand in new location, verify tank is level (If not, use shims)
• Add 5G-10G of new salt water (due to loss of water)
• Test for leaks
• Stack rock back in place, adding old tank water as needed
• Setup equipment (pumps, skimmer, media)
• Use Prodibio Bio Digest & Prodibio STOP Ammo (if needed)
• Add fish and remaining 3G of tank water
• Monitor parameters
• Perform a system check on equipment
• Pray

Thanks for the tips man, the move worked out already using some of the points you mentioned. It was very close (and hot in Texas) so a lot of considerations were not needed. My only lacking foresight was having a ton of extra SW and FW on hand, lesson learned.

[ange062]

So Restoration Hardware isn't exactly the long term lighting I had in mind, but will serve it's purpose for now.

Leak test was critical for me considering my recent crap (non-fish-tank-related) experiences with flooding. Got the new bad boy RL30 filled up with about 27g of fresh water and all is well.



The new back chamber, in comparison to the NC28, is interesting. I love the extra space for maintenance:


That being said, only one chamber is constant volume which is on the right (from a front stance). The other falls directly to the pump chamber, which creates some oddities. First, the right chamber receives substantially more flow at normal operation volume. The other chamber technically is "constant volume" but drains to the same level as the center chamber. It's not a bad design, just creates some new challenges. I foresee very inconsistent media changes between the two overflows. Here are pics from behind the overflow on left (non-constant) vs. right chambers respectively:






The two overflow design definitely seems to cope with the flow from the two monstrous (IMO) 266gph Acella's. And the new format of overflow and outflow is going to be tremendous for reducing surface scum and getting that crap to the skimmer IMO, just check this out:

[Charley Diesing]

Awesome upgrade, I always loved your 28g. But whats keeping you from going sump?

[TprMoore]

Love it! That's a sweet looking tank!

[ange062]

Originally Posted by Charley Diesing

Awesome upgrade, I always loved your 28g. But whats keeping you from going sump?

Just dont have the room for a sump IMO, nor a real need. When I eventually build out my custom build 100 it'll be sumped though. No point in an AIO.

Originally Posted by moore1811

Love it! That's a sweet looking tank!

Thanks dood!


So I've run into numerous setbacks. First my MP10 dry side went out, and right after that the chiller blew a coolant line. MP10 is still working but making a lot of noise, and I havent had time to determine if I can fix the chiller since I've been in and out of town nonstop. Sucks having to run my house at 74 nonstop during the Texas summer just to keep the tank at 82. Inhabitants dont seem to like the increased temp from the normal 77.

And all that to boot I broke my toe bad enough to where they thought I'd need surgery, which after a couple weeks looks like I wont. That being said I've been too incapacitated to concentrate on the new tank. At this point just trying to hold things together for a bit until I can figure everything out. Just hoping for an upswing in my luck, lol!

[martinphillip03]

Ange. I am afraid to say anything less I jinx you more. But here it goes,

May the Force be with you!

Marty

Originally Posted by ange062

So I've run into numerous setbacks. First my MP10 dry side went out, and right after that the chiller blew a coolant line. MP10 is still working but making a lot of noise, and I havent had time to determine if I can fix the chiller since I've been in and out of town nonstop. Sucks having to run my house at 74 nonstop during the Texas summer just to keep the tank at 82. Inhabitants dont seem to like the increased temp from the normal 77.

And all that to boot I broke my toe bad enough to where they thought I'd need surgery, which after a couple weeks looks like I wont. That being said I've been too incapacitated to concentrate on the new tank. At this point just trying to hold things together for a bit until I can figure everything out. Just hoping for an upswing in my luck, lol!

[martinphillip03]

Ange, I think I saw your tank of the future. "Reef in the Sky" by V1...Rotate. Wow what a tank.
I saw the JBG 28 next to the JBG 30. Boy what a difference. I really like the 30.
Question on the 30. Since the water level in the back overflow is not level. Is there anyway a small alge scrubber could be incorporated? (I have been reading the alge scrubber thread and for whatever reason I thought of your 30.
Hope everything is ok.

Marty

[waddwadd]

Is this JBJ the intermediate version or the expert version? Thanks!