Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

[ianrwesley]

For those who are interested I have a pump up for sale in the drygoods FS forum. It's a 77301-20 which is a digital brushless unit with pump and controller.

[machodik]

This should be a nice piece of pump , So pity , shipping cost from USA to Taiwan is way too high and not to mentioned some tax and duty too.

[herring_fish]

This is not a great idea. It's just a starting point. What to do and is it worth even worrying about?

So I have tried to follow protocol. I searched around on RC and the net.

Then I started a thread on The Reef Chemistry Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2497924but now I am back here. On RC, I did find this:

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

You will need to pay attention to magnesium levels. Once you get your alk stable, calcium should remain stable as long as you have the correct amounts of mag.

How do you keep the correct amounts of mag? This is an expensive system. Couldn't it address this? Should it?

Originally Posted by EnderG60

So i got to thinking....i know usually leads to bad things...

Since people have been adding dolomite(sp?) to the calc reactors in order to add mag, and since it requires a lower ph to dissolve it, which usually makes the calc media turn to mush why not to a separate reactor for it?

I was thinking have a separate chamber with recirc pump and run it off the same CO2 bottle as the calc reactor, just with its own solenoid / ph controller.
That way you can adjust the dosing separate of the calc.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by EnderG60

it wouldn’t be for an easier cheaper kinda thing, just more precise dosing. As opposed to trying to balance things by the amount of media in the reactor.

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

The only thing I would recommend above the AP Carbon Doser is the Aquarium Plants Carbon Doser add-on box with a digital screen

Could a second output stream of CO2 and another smaller reactor help or hurt? Is there a better way to go? Should anyone bother?

[herring_fish]

Originally Posted by herring_fish

I think that I want to eventually build a calcium reactor but I don’t know enough about them yet and I would like to get some help in planning. I want to build a reactor that will be out in the garage so height is not an issue. Let’s say that I will make a dual chamber system with the flow running from bottom to top. I might use 6 inch diameter tubes for the chambers because I already use them for another project.

Will having tall chambers allow the fine powder to settle out before going to the recirculating pump and therefore potentially increase its life? If so, when would it be over kill?

By the way, I did report about talking to the guy at Geo and besides his comments about a second chamber, I didn't get a chance to say that he said that he would be glad to build it for me but he didn't think that an overly tall chamber would help with the settling of dust.

[tkeracer619]

Originally Posted by herring_fish

Could a second output stream of CO2 and another smaller reactor help or hurt? Is there a better way to go? Should anyone bother?

No reason to bother. Some dolomite in the reactor does the trick but that is down the road and due to the difference in uptake you have to toy with it over time to get it dialed in. When I run dolomite I am only looking to supply maybe 50% of my total requirements and will use the mag recipe from randys 2 part to add the rest, this way I don't overshoot but the dolomite reduces the amount needed. Mag doesn't drop fast and if you do water changes you are likely fine. I add mag to my water change water and make the salt mix go further.

Originally Posted by herring_fish

I didn't get a chance to say that he said that he would be glad to build it for me but he didn't think that an overly tall chamber would help with the settling of dust.

What dust? If GEO is building you a reactor make sure to get the effluent output on the lid.

A calcium reactor is nothing but a tube with recirc pump. A custom with all the features will work no better than a 5 gallon bucket retrofitted (function vs form). It's just a chamber for a reaction to occur, the hardware you use to control it makes all the difference. There may be an amount of media that is ideal for any given tank size / demand level in regards to minimums. I've run reactors to the max where they just couldn't keep up. I have never though yet encountered a reactor that was too big unless the tank had no demand in which case they should have been using kalkwasser or two part until there was demand.

If you want the ultimate reactor you are in the right thread. You could turn a cowboy boot into a good reactor with this setup .

Originally Posted by machodik

This should be a nice piece of pump.

Didn't you get a pump already or no?

[herring_fish]

Yea, I know that building a reactor can be easy and that is why I was going to build one myself. I called GEO for info about several things including buying just the top plates with the quick change slotted eyelets and plastic screws.

Then I ran across a high end 7" by 19 tall reactor with the same features for 25 bucks. I also got a 15 lb. CO2 bottle for the same price. (Boy it's ugly. ...needs cosmetic work.) Once I buy the recirculation pump and some plumping, I will be done with that leg of the system.

So, I only have a couple of days left to finish my research on the AP model that I want to buy ...I'm thinking that I don't need to buy the $100 add-on box if I will only need one CO2 output.

If not, your advice on the mag chamber gets rid of that additional requirement/want'a have. Thanks That means that I'll just go with the $209 digital box without their regulator and go with an after market SS SGT500 regulator that just got done and is being shipped to AP.

Then I still need a controller. I plan on a higher end multi-functioning model so I won't get a dedicated controller just for the approx.6.5pH regulation.

[machodik]

I am about to get one soon , as per Scott advise on the 3 CP pump I presented here , I am narrowing down my selection and will be getting the 7520-00 with 7518-10 pump head. Analog and Bushed with 6-600 rpm.

Furthermore , As I was about to pick my choices , yesterday I have been offer by the same dealer with another one , a stock unused Watson - Marlow 323S with 313D pump head. I try to surf Internet to find out if it is brushed or brushless but no information on it except it is 400 rpm , digital. Can anyone give me some info about this pump ? I am in fact choosing between this one with the 7520-00/7518-10 CP pump I above mentioned .

Here is the picture of Watson - Marlow 323S;









Hope to hear from you guys

[machodik]

Further to my earlier post on Watson - Marlow 323s pump as picture shown earlier , I have found from their website that this pump is ;

"Zero maintenance Brushless DC motor"

I wonder what it mean about "DC motor" ??? As I believed all the CP pumps are AC. Sorry not so mix knowledge about motors ! here is the data (look on the 300 series);

[slief]

Originally Posted by machodik

I am about to get one soon , as per Scott advise on the 3 CP pump I presented here , I am narrowing down my selection and will be getting the 7520-00 with 7518-10 pump head. Analog and Bushed with 6-600 rpm.

Furthermore , As I was about to pick my choices , yesterday I have been offer by the same dealer with another one , a stock unused Watson - Marlow 323S with 313D pump head. I try to surf Internet to find out if it is brushed or brushless but no information on it except it is 400 rpm , digital. Can anyone give me some info about this pump ? I am in fact choosing between this one with the 7520-00/7518-10 CP pump I above mentioned .

Here is the picture of Watson - Marlow 323S;









Hope to hear from you guys

That Marlow looks like a decent pump. I read through the manual and the only issue I see is that it's only controllable in 1RPM increments which makes it a little tougher to dial in. The Cole Parmers can be controlled in 1/10th RPM increments. I also couldn't find out if it has a continuous mode but I think it does. If you choose that pump, make sure you enable the "Auto Start" feature so that if power goes out to the pump, it starts back up. You might want to try to call the manufacturer and see what they say about running it 24/7 at a low RPM. My guess is that you'd be running it around 10RPM but that will depending on the tubing size and flow rates which is something I couldn't find.

FWIW, there is NOTHING wrong with brushed pumps. They may not be as quiet as a brushless pump but brushed pumps are VERY reliable. The only maintenance is replacing the brushes ever so often. With our kind of usage, that could be every 6 months to a year if that. The brushes are cheap to at under $20 for the pair and it takes minutes to change them out. As such, don't worry about getting a brushed pump from a reliability standpoint.

Noise level is 70 dB at 1 meter which is fairly quiet. According to the manaul there are no user servicable parts which may indicate that it's brushless but then again, it may have a cheap motor and not have serviceable brushes.

Here is a manual on that pump.
http://www.watson-marlow.com/Documen...u-du-gb-06.pdf

[machodik]

Hi Scott , thanks as always for your very supported reply.

By the way , is all brushless pump are DC motor? I don't understand what it is as to AC motor (I guess our CP pumps are)

[slief]

Originally Posted by machodik

Hi Scott , thanks as always for your very supported reply.

By the way , is all brushless pump are DC motor? I don't understand what it is as to AC motor (I guess our CP pumps are)

DC means the motors don't run off of traditional alternating current (110 or 220v) and instead use direct current lower voltage to drive the motor. I think that all of these variable speed pumps are DC based as opposed to AC based. The DC power allows the pump motor to vary it's rpm as the voltage is increased or decreased. This would apply to brushed and brushless. That said, don't think of these pumps as being similar to the garbage DC pumps produced by companies such as Jebao, RLSS etc. Those are cheap motors with cheap power supplies and cheap electronics. These medical and lab grade Cole Parmer pumps are much higher quality with motors that really can't be compared to most of the DC style pumps we hear about on the forum. I'm guessing that the Marlow is also of decent quality. It's just not as fine tuneable down to the 10th of an RPM like the Cole Parmers but that doesn't mean it won't work well enough for a calcium reactor and do so reliably.

[machodik]

Watson -Marlow pump test;



I think the digital display Only shows and only can adjusted with rpm but not the flow rate (Ml/Min), still studying its manual .

Cheers ,


MD

[machodik]

Any comment?

[machodik]

Hi everyone , congratulate me !

I Just pick up my Watson - Marlow 323S today , is very new unused.



I am also planning to buy the CP 7522-00 for my WC , I wonder anyone has ever use this pump for WC ? As I am tired of manual Water change and wish to use this pump to suck the old water from sump and filled back with fresh sea water in return . Hope anyone help me too how is your set up in this regard!



Cheers,


MD

[Krazie4Acans]

Originally Posted by machodik

Hi everyone , congratulate me !

I Just pick up my Watson - Marlow 323S today , is very new unused.



I am also planning to buy the CP 7522-00 for my WC , I wonder anyone has ever use this pump for WC ? As I am tired of manual Water change and wish to use this pump to suck the old water from sump and filled back with fresh sea water in return . Hope anyone help me too how is your set up in this regard!



Cheers,


MD

Looks like a good pickup on the Watson - Marlow. Nice find.

The AWC question is a bit off topic for this thread and should probably be asked in one of the many threads already discussing AWC setups. Hope you get it figured out and running. AWC does make the task of doing those water changes much easier. Krazie

[Sparky0028]

I have a Geo 618 and using the MF pump with ls/16 tubing. I mod the reactor to pull effluent from the top, turned the MF pump on full to prime the pump and get ride of all the air for over an hour. My CaRx is about 3' high from the sump and still this didn't work, pump never primed and nothing but air and a cloudy reactor. So i went back to manifold feed to reactor, ball valve 95% closed and works great. Has anyone got a Geo to work with using MF pump pulling through?
Thanks
Rich

[machodik]

I try this unit with L/S 16 tubing and it runs 1 ml / 1 rpm . I need 15 ml / min and at 15 rpm , she give me the right volume I need .



And very dead silent too. Now have to find a good connector as the ID is 1/8 and I don't think we have that small diameter here . Huh!

Cheers,


MD

[machodik]

Originally Posted by d2mini

So i noticed something was leaking in my garage last night.
Ends up it's my AWC pump that runs for about 45 mins every days.
The tubing split in the middle where the rollers contact it.
But unlike Brett, my clamps were down hard enough, the tubing didn't shift.

I understand and respect the main topic of this thread concentrating on CP pump mainly for Calcium reactor application . And please accept my sincere apology for having an off topic in my earlier posting with regard to questions on AWC.

But I would like to ask you guys to give me a little opportunity to post my question to people like D2mini or some one else have been using peristaltic pump for AWC application . Perhaps a guide on which thread or link that I need to following up or a PM to me as I would like to know how is the set up specially with my plan next buy - a CP 7522-00 as presented earlier for AWC purpose.

Thanks for your kind understanding and I will abide the request by letting this post purely discuss on the topic as it was initiated ! Thanks !

Cheers ,

MD

[slief]

Originally Posted by machodik

I understand and respect the main topic of this thread concentrating on CP pump mainly for Calcium reactor application . And please accept my sincere apology for having an off topic in my earlier posting with regard to questions on AWC.

But I would like to ask you guys to give me a little opportunity to post my question to people like D2mini or some one else have been using peristaltic pump for AWC application . Perhaps a guide on which thread or link that I need to following up or a PM to me as I would like to know how is the set up specially with my plan next buy - a CP 7522-00 as presented earlier for AWC purpose.

Thanks for your kind understanding and I will abide the request by letting this post purely discuss on the topic as it was initiated ! Thanks !

Cheers ,

MD

Here you go.. A great thread on different automatic water change approaches.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...c+water+change

[herring_fish]

As I mentioned before, I had a regulator build for me and had it sent to AP to get a digital box installed to it. I also said that I bought a very old CO2 tank and regulator. I was going to throw the slightly green regulator away and keep the cylinder.

In talking to Mark at AP, an old steel regulator can be the start of trouble. Internal rust dust and a probable requirement for re-certification on such an old unit could make for more trouble than it is worth.

I guess that I will start looking for another cylinder now and I have to make a decision by Thursday or Friday when the finished regulator ships.

Mark offers free shipping on his cylinders and he feels that his prices can’t be beaten. I don’t know if his is the best but if he is close, the free shipping on such a heavy product could make it attractive. Another thing to look at is should I buy something that is pre-filled or not?

Should I seriously look at buying one from him or are there other ways to go, new or used, that might work out better for me?

I guess that it's my turn to get into a few details.

AP cyclinder Prices
Size Capacity Height Diameter
2.5 lbs 2.5 lbs compressed CO2 14.1" 4.38"
5 lbs 5 lbs compressed CO2 17.5" 5.25"
10 lbs 10 lbs compressed CO2 20.25" 6.9"
20 lbs 20 lbs compressed CO2 27.13" 8.0"
50 lbs 50 lbs compressed CO2 52.63" 7.25"

T2.5E Aluminum Co2 Cylinders(new)(2.5 lbs empty) $51.99
T2.5F Aluminum Co2 Cylinders(new)(2.5 lbs) (full) $99.99
T10E Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (new)(10 lbs)(empty) $79.99
T10F Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (new)(10 lbs)(full) $149.99
T5E Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (new)(5 lbs)(empty) $57.99
T5F Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (new)(5 lbs)(full) $129.99
T20E Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (with handle)(new)(20 lbs)(empty) $121.99
T20F Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (with handle)(new)(20 lbs)(full) $199.99
T50E Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (with handle)(new)(50 lbs)(empty) $309.99
TDT-1 Fill tube, Siphon tube, dip tube (for dispensing liquid/filling other tanks)(includes FREE installation) $19.99
pr-098789 Perma-Seal (co2 cylinder to regulator seal) $3.99

[slief]

Originally Posted by herring_fish

As I mentioned before, I had a regulator build for me and had it sent to AP to get a digital box installed to it. I also said that I bought a very old CO2 tank and regulator. I was going to throw the slightly green regulator away and keep the cylinder.

In talking to Mark at AP, an old steel regulator can be the start of trouble. Internal rust dust and a probable requirement for re-certification on such an old unit could make for more trouble than it is worth.

I guess that I will start looking for another cylinder now and I have to make a decision by Thursday or Friday when the finished regulator ships.

Mark offers free shipping on his cylinders and he feels that his prices can’t be beaten. I don’t know if his is the best but if he is close, the free shipping on such a heavy product could make it attractive. Another thing to look at is should I buy something that is pre-filled or not?

Should I seriously look at buying one from him or are there other ways to go, new or used, that might work out better for me?

I guess that it's my turn to get into a few details.

AP cyclinder Prices
Size Capacity Height Diameter
2.5 lbs 2.5 lbs compressed CO2 14.1" 4.38"
5 lbs 5 lbs compressed CO2 17.5" 5.25"
10 lbs 10 lbs compressed CO2 20.25" 6.9"
20 lbs 20 lbs compressed CO2 27.13" 8.0"
50 lbs 50 lbs compressed CO2 52.63" 7.25"

T2.5E Aluminum Co2 Cylinders(new)(2.5 lbs empty) $51.99
T2.5F Aluminum Co2 Cylinders(new)(2.5 lbs) (full) $99.99
T10E Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (new)(10 lbs)(empty) $79.99
T10F Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (new)(10 lbs)(full) $149.99
T5E Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (new)(5 lbs)(empty) $57.99
T5F Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (new)(5 lbs)(full) $129.99
T20E Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (with handle)(new)(20 lbs)(empty) $121.99
T20F Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (with handle)(new)(20 lbs)(full) $199.99
T50E Aluminum Co2 Cylinders (with handle)(new)(50 lbs)(empty) $309.99
TDT-1 Fill tube, Siphon tube, dip tube (for dispensing liquid/filling other tanks)(includes FREE installation) $19.99
pr-098789 Perma-Seal (co2 cylinder to regulator seal) $3.99

I have a couple old 20 pound steel tanks myself and will be trading them in at the local Co2 exchange place for an extra 20 pound aluminum one. It is true that the steel ones corrode inside and the corrosion can get into the regulator and damage it. As such, I only use aluminum ones with my AP regulator and have a 20 pound aluminum tank that I am running now. You might want to check locally to see if there is a place that exchanges empty Co2 tanks with filled ones. I've found that exchanging them is usually cheaper than filling them and most of the exchange places are pretty amicable to trading steel ones (for a small fee) for aluminum ones. You just need to bring your steel one in and ask. many welding supply places as well as beverage supply places will exchange the tanks.

[herring_fish]

Thanks slief for the advice. I called locally and found that the 15 lb. steel, if it is out of date, has no trade in value but a new brushed aluminum 20 lb. cylinder would be about 150 with tax so it looks like a good deal right up the street.

[slief]

Originally Posted by herring_fish

Thanks slief for the advice. I called locally and found that the 15 lb. steel, if it is out of date, has no trade in value but a new brushed aluminum 20 lb. cylinder would be about 150 with tax so it looks like a good deal right up the street.

Yea, the steel tanks need hydro testing after a certain amount of time. Some places will still take them in depending on if they pass inspection. That said, good deal or not, you may want to call around and check some other places. I did a check for you in Winston Salem and you have a lot of Co2 refill places around there for the beverage industry alone. I'd bet with a bit of searching you could find other options as well. I scanned Craigslist in your area and there are several Co2 tanks listed there as well but it's hard to tell if the painted ones are aluminum. In most cases they aren't. That said, here is one that might still be available for a good price.
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/app/4941327254.html

[oshanickreef]

Originally Posted by oshanickreef

GREAT NEWS!!! I am very please to say that it is plumbed into my tank! and i am very very pleased that I am yet to deal with the air getting trapped in the top of the system like i anticipated, since apparently GEO reactors have this issue.





first off... i know it is a cluster f so i am going to home depot and installing another shelf to put all this stuff on tonight.

I hooked it all up and i am very surprised that there is no more air bubbling. the CO2 is running at about 1 bubble every 3 seconds and my effluent flow is at 30 ml. i tested alk last night and it was 8.3 and this morning it was 8.3. i will test again tonight but i am please so far.

here is my only question as of now. here is my apex CO2 coding (I renamed my pH2 to pHR because it wasnt saving with pH2 for some reason):

Fallback OFF
If pHR > 6.7 Then ON
If pHR < 6.5 Then OFF
If pH < 7.8 Then OFF

the thing i notice is that my pHR will drop till it hits 6.5 and then shut off until it goes back up to 6.7 then on then off then on then off..... how should i level this out?

So after a few weeks of having this running, I am having issues with air getting trapped at the top of the reactor, which then is recirculated, and then eventually stops the recirculating pump. I can get all of the air out but then once i turn the co2 back on, air gets recirculated very quickly. My reactor is a GEO 618 and i am pulling through the reactor. when i dont have the Co2 on and it is recirculating, there is no air issues... I spoke with GEO and he said that with a pump pushing the water through, the reactor is fine and there will not be any air, but he didnt say anything about using one of these pumps.. i dont see why using one of these pumps would cause air to get trapped but i assume that it has something to do with the pulling vs. the pushing. any suggestions? I really want to avoid drilling through the top of the reactor... lol

thanks,

[slief]

Originally Posted by oshanickreef

So after a few weeks of having this running, I am having issues with air getting trapped at the top of the reactor, which then is recirculated, and then eventually stops the recirculating pump. I can get all of the air out but then once i turn the co2 back on, air gets recirculated very quickly. My reactor is a GEO 618 and i am pulling through the reactor. when i dont have the Co2 on and it is recirculating, there is no air issues... I spoke with GEO and he said that with a pump pushing the water through, the reactor is fine and there will not be any air, but he didnt say anything about using one of these pumps.. i dont see why using one of these pumps would cause air to get trapped but i assume that it has something to do with the pulling vs. the pushing. any suggestions? I really want to avoid drilling through the top of the reactor... lol

thanks,

Generally speaking, when you use a pump to pull through the reactor and continually find air building up in the reactor, it is a sign of a leak which is allowing air to be pulled into the reactor. I have a Geo 818 and experienced a similar issue. I found that the drain valve that is threaded on to my reactor was slightly loose and I also removed the Uniseal and added some silicone grease to the seal and reinstalled it. Between the two, that solved my issue. You could set the reactor up so that you are pushing through it via the Cole Parmer which would quickly expose the source of the leak as you would more than likely find a puddle or water dripping before long. You mentioned that the issue seems to only occur when the Co2 is on. You might check the Co2 lines as well as the seal where the regulator meets the Co2 tank. If you have a leak there and are using a standard solenoid based regulator, your leak could by the regulator.