Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

[Krazie4Acans]

Originally Posted by slief

You could set the reactor up so that you are pushing through it via the Cole Parmer which would quickly expose the source of the leak as you would more than likely find a puddle or water dripping before long.

Unless you restricted the output line from the reactor so that pressure would build up I don't think you would see any leaks. Pushing water would be the same as pulling unless there was a restriction on the output. The reason we use them in pulling direction is because these pumps can create lots of pressure. If there were an obstruction on the output line and the pump was pushing water in it could easily cause the seals of the reactor to leak. Pulling on a line that is blocked would just create a vacuum on that line but not create any leaks in the system.

I honestly believe that the reason that these reactors have issues with gas accumulation is due to the effluent fitting being sideways instead of vertical. The gas has to accumulate enough to reach the effluent line tubing in order to be vented from the reactor. If that fitting was turned vertical then the gas would naturally accumulate at the effluent line and be vented out of the reactor. Instead it starts to collect but before it can be vented it is sucked back into the pump and recirculated inside the reactor.

There are two fixes for this issue. First turn the T fitting on the existing plumbing so that it is vertical to allow the gas to vent naturally. or Second (the one most have chosen) move the effluent line to the top cover of the reactor so that gasses can be vented naturally without effecting the original plumbing.

Hope that gives a bit more detail of the issue. Krazie

[oshanickreef]

i will try that and post my results. thank you!

[tkeracer619]

Keep in mind the surface tension and molecule size of water is much larger than air. You can't assume if water doesn't leak that air won't enter the reactor when under vacuum.

[Sparky0028]

I have a GEO 612, tapped the lid to have the effluent pulled from this fitting and still couldn't get the pump to pull with it turned all the way up. I ended up with a recirc pump that wasn't working and a reactor filled with air. As of right now I have the input off the manifold with ball valve 90-95% closed and mf pump pulling from lid of reactor. It has been this way since monday and no gas build up at all. hth
Rich

[tkeracer619]

If you are pulling from the lid and still accumulating gas you more than not have a leak.

[oshanickreef]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

If you are pulling from the lid and still accumulating gas you more than not have a leak.

okay i will check it out tonight. thanks for all the help everyone!

[Krazie4Acans]

Originally Posted by Sparky0028

I have a GEO 612, tapped the lid to have the effluent pulled from this fitting and still couldn't get the pump to pull with it turned all the way up. I ended up with a recirc pump that wasn't working and a reactor filled with air. As of right now I have the input off the manifold with ball valve 90-95% closed and mf pump pulling from lid of reactor. It has been this way since monday and no gas build up at all. hth
Rich

If you can't get your mf pump to pull water from your reactor then you either have the wrong tubing or have a bad pump head. They will draw water upto 15 feet vertical with not much problem at all. Something is not right with your mf pump.

Can you pump water from your sump back into your sump with the pump? where did you have the input side of the reactor when you tried to pull water through with your MF pump? Which tubing and which pump head are you using? how is the tubing connected to the RO tubing of your reactor? Soooo many questions.

[slief]

Originally Posted by Krazie4Acans

Unless you restricted the output line from the reactor so that pressure would build up I don't think you would see any leaks. Pushing water would be the same as pulling unless there was a restriction on the output. The reason we use them in pulling direction is because these pumps can create lots of pressure. If there were an obstruction on the output line and the pump was pushing water in it could easily cause the seals of the reactor to leak. Pulling on a line that is blocked would just create a vacuum on that line but not create any leaks in the system.

I honestly believe that the reason that these reactors have issues with gas accumulation is due to the effluent fitting being sideways instead of vertical. The gas has to accumulate enough to reach the effluent line tubing in order to be vented from the reactor. If that fitting was turned vertical then the gas would naturally accumulate at the effluent line and be vented out of the reactor. Instead it starts to collect but before it can be vented it is sucked back into the pump and recirculated inside the reactor.

There are two fixes for this issue. First turn the T fitting on the existing plumbing so that it is vertical to allow the gas to vent naturally. or Second (the one most have chosen) move the effluent line to the top cover of the reactor so that gasses can be vented naturally without effecting the original plumbing.

Hope that gives a bit more detail of the issue. Krazie

FWIW.. Pressurizing the reactor by changing the flow and not closing the effluent line producted my leak. It was a slow leak but after a day or two, I was able to spot it. Granted, I run a second reactor down stream that probably creates some back pressure.

I have a GEO 818 with the standard effluent line setup and I have NO issues with gas accumulation. While in theory there may be better ways to have designed the plumbing on this reactor, I can tell you from first hand experience that it does work and when properly setup, gas doesn't accumulate in the reactor. I suppose if the Co2 rate was high compared to the water flow though the reactor, the results may be different. Under normal circumstances with a proper flow rate, the Co2 should not accumulate in the reactor regardless of where the effluent line is. The Co2 should be dissolved within the water and exit the reactor with the water via the effluent line. As I said, I have this reactor and once I figured out the source of my leak, I had no more trapped gas in the reactor.

One more thought on gas accumulation. If the location of the line that feeds the reactor is in a heavily aerated area of the sump or tank, air will be passed into the reactor and unlike Co2, air can remain trapped in the reactor.

[herring_fish]

After deciding to ditch my old steel 15 lb. CO2 tank, I went to the local Airgas USA facility which is down the street from where I work. I went in to buy that $150 new, filled 20 lb. aluminum cylinder and I realized that I had miss-understood that he wasn’t talking about a new unit. He doesn’t even sell them there. My mistake. He was talking about an exchange.

I was on my way out the door but started asking questions about refilling a new unit perhaps a year after I bought a new one. He showed me the drop offs and the choices of cylinders that their trade in customers have. There were a lot of them and some of them looked pretty good. Then I asked him about refill timing of customer owned cylinders. They do them in batches so that could mean one day to three weeks turnaround time. If you trade it in, you walk up, put your money down and walk off with a different one of your choice. I could keep looking around town but this works for me.

That was it. I bought a used unit right then and there.

Well, for better or worse, that is another part of my system that is done/re-done.

[tkeracer619]

Sweet. Any beer and tap or grow store can fill them while you wait.

[herring_fish]

Yeah it's just that they're so close, being right down the street. I know that many will do it but the couple of places that I called wouldn't mess with anything more than 5 pounds.

[tkeracer619]

I use airgas for work. Good company.

[Sparky0028]

After reading the recent posts and theories behind having leaks and surface tension I decided to try to pull through the reactor from the lid one more time. I shut off the ball valve on manifold and added 1/4" tubing to the sump and hook the mf pump to the new fitting on the lid. When I started the mf pump I had the co2 off so i wouldn't have gas and could purge any air in reactor, as the pump primed I noticed a air bubble forming inside the lid from the fitting that the recirc pump uses to pull water out of reactor. Where is this coming from??? I tighten up the JG fitting that was the old effluent line (put a ball valve on it until I find a plug) and the air bubble stopped. I let it run like this for thirty minutes and no more trapped air so I plugged the CO2 in also put a small shim under reactor so if gas/air does get trapped under the lid it will build up on the side I have the effluent fitting and get pulled out. As of this morning it is running just the way you guru's said it would. Thanks for your help and patience.
Rich

[oshanickreef]

[QUOTE=I let it run like this for thirty minutes and no more trapped air so I plugged the CO2 in also put a small shim under reactor so if gas/air does get trapped under the lid it will build up on the side I have the effluent fitting and get pulled out.[/QUOTE]

This shimming is a good idea! i will be doing this tonight. i reversed the flow in my reactor last night and i didnt find any leaks... in order for this to expose a leak, do i have to swithc out the tubing? or would just putting both effluent and feed lines in the water and hitting the reverse flow button work?

[machodik]

Hi there !

Peristaltic pump installed and pulling water from the reactor , no bubbles whatsoever hassles , crossing my fingers and hope this machine works well.

I set up my Watson - Marlow pump on a cabinet at my house balcony which is 12 feet away from my DT , well no place to have a big nice fish room like you guys

I use local made (may be china made silicone tubing which is a bit different in sizes as compare to original Watson - Marlow tube. Original tube specs #16 ( ID 3.2 mm x tube layer thickness 1.6 mm) which need me to use 15 rpm to give 15 ml/ min. While no brand local tube spec : 3 mm x 1.5 mm, which need to 17 rpm to give 15 ml/ min. But price is ten times cheaper than Watson - Marlow brand tube.

I am checking if it will last long or not ? But for safety reason , I will buy Watson - Marlow tube. Just making experiment between the cheaper tube from expensive one .



Connector use ;



Cheers,

MD

[slief]

Originally Posted by Sparky0028

After reading the recent posts and theories behind having leaks and surface tension I decided to try to pull through the reactor from the lid one more time. I shut off the ball valve on manifold and added 1/4" tubing to the sump and hook the mf pump to the new fitting on the lid. When I started the mf pump I had the co2 off so i wouldn't have gas and could purge any air in reactor, as the pump primed I noticed a air bubble forming inside the lid from the fitting that the recirc pump uses to pull water out of reactor. Where is this coming from??? I tighten up the JG fitting that was the old effluent line (put a ball valve on it until I find a plug) and the air bubble stopped. I let it run like this for thirty minutes and no more trapped air so I plugged the CO2 in also put a small shim under reactor so if gas/air does get trapped under the lid it will build up on the side I have the effluent fitting and get pulled out. As of this morning it is running just the way you guru's said it would. Thanks for your help and patience.
Rich

Sounds like you found your leak.. For kicks and giggles, perhaps you should put the effluent line back where it was originally. Rest assured, it should work just fine. Geo makes good stuff and my guess is that there is a reason why they put the effluent line there instead of in the lid.

Originally Posted by machodik

Hi there !

Peristaltic pump installed and pulling water from the reactor , no bubbles whatsoever hassles , crossing my fingers and hope this machine works well.

I set up my Watson - Marlow pump on a cabinet at my house balcony which is 12 feet away from my DT , well no place to have a big nice fish room like you guys

I use local made (may be china made silicone tubing which is a bit different in sizes as compare to original Watson - Marlow tube. Original tube specs #16 ( ID 3.2 mm x tube layer thickness 1.6 mm) which need me to use 15 rpm to give 15 ml/ min. While no brand local tube spec : 3 mm x 1.5 mm, which need to 17 rpm to give 15 ml/ min. But price is ten times cheaper than Watson - Marlow brand tube.

I am checking if it will last long or not ? But for safety reason , I will buy Watson - Marlow tube. Just making experiment between the cheaper tube from expensive one .



Connector use ;



Cheers,

MD

It's about damn time! Congrats on the new pump! I'm sure you will love the stability of the reactor with that thing running it!

[machodik]

Originally Posted by slief

It's about damn time! Congrats on the new pump! I'm sure you will love the stability of the reactor with that thing running it!

Thanks Scott,

It will not be better without you and lot more people here giving me guidelines during this period of selecting the right pump.

I am now exploring for my next piece for my AWC system .

By the way, what is the different between Tygon from the rest of tubings?

Cheers,

MD

[machodik]

I also wish to thanks TKeracer 619 for initiating this thread and I can see in spite of its more than 2 years , this thread still has a long way to go.

And surely a lot of people will gained more knowledge in stabilizing the calcium reactor plus finding the right pump !

Cheers ,

MD

[tkeracer619]

You're welcome. Those watson pumps are great too. Glad you were able to get one!

Tygon is a brand of Saint-Gobain Performance Plastics. They have a bunch of different tubings. We tend to use tygon pharmed bpt or food grade tygon norprene. The pharmed BPT will last over a year at our speeds but I still recommend once every 3 months.

[machodik]

Thanks TK,

I ask this because I saw this one ;



Price is lot cheaper than Watson - Marlow tubes

What is the different from Phramed tube to that of Tygon?

Cheers,


MD

[tkeracer619]

Tygon is the brand. IE Sony, Panasonic, Honda. Pharmed is the type of tube IE Walkman, Plasma TVs, Accords. Can't read the label so no idea what you actually have. Many of them are not suitable.

[herring_fish]

OK, I finally bought a Pan World 30PX as a recirculating pump for the reactor. I saw it on bulk reef supply for $99 plus shipping. Then I found the pump for $65 plus shipping on Ebay being sold by aquariumsupply. I sure don’t know anything about bidding but I waited until the last twenty some seconds and entered a bid for $70 and confirmed it. Ebay accepted my not-bid at $65. Then via e-mail, Bulk Reef confirmed the order at $65. Hmmmm

I also went ahead and bought a Masterflex Easy Load pump 7518-10. Now I just need a motor and controller to drive it.

Of course I am still putting molding and trim on the cabinet. I don’t even have water in the tank yet so I have some time left.

[janey]

Hey Guys ..

Got a question , I have my unit MFlex running for 2 weeks ,But when i test my alk .it keeps dropping to 7.3. I have to keep adding alk manually to bring my levels up.

My cal is high like 500.

[machodik]

Hi there!

Just to share with you guys out there! I just got my second unit of Watson - Marlow pumps (323S) with 2 pumps heads (313X , 313D) to be use for my AWC.

Just sharing with you guys and start working on that said thread concerning this subject.

Thanks again a million for guiding me more thoughts about Peristaltic pump .





Cheers,

MD

[herring_fish]

Do the CO2 bubbles get completely broken up by the recirculating pump? I don’t see anybody using a venturi or anything. That might not help either but I read about bubbles pooling at the top of the reactor. Do they just coalesce up there or do they come through the media whole?