Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks, and welcome, rick12!

I read your thread on going skimmer-less. I think for most marine aquariums, skimmers are a useful tool. There's no arguing they do remove some nasty gunk! I forget who said it, but I love this quote (I'm paraphrasing): "For those who doubt the efficacy of skimmers, I invite you to drink from my collection cup."

For tanks like mine, with massive plant growth and a growing number of filter feeders, they are unnecessary. A skimmer is really just a man made substitute for what Mother Nature would be happy to do for you. I am free from the noise, adjustments and cleaning, and I like it!

[Xeniaamore]

I generally agree that it is dangerous to add a bunch of fish to a saltwater planted system, especially if still fine tuning. I personally lost my two fish when I first started injecting CO2. This was because I was trying to make the CO2 dissolve as efficiently as possible, and my first ended up getting gas bubble disease. Since then I have gone fisheless.

Animals and plants need different conditions to survive. What is good for animals in an aquarium can be deadly for plants and vice versa. That being said, once a balance is established, it can be a beautiful thing to see fish amongst the seagrass. But seagrass is demanding, and that often means no fish (for now).

If you are trying to get macros to grow along side your seagrass, this is even difficult. Yes, seagrass do well in nature with low nutrients due to their ability to out compete algae in these situations, but in the aquarium, growth will be heavily accelerated by nutrient dosing.

I am very happy to say that the Seachem Flourish product is working wonders. I can dose the tank as much as I want but rarely have algae issues I raised my nitrate to 60 the other day. It was back to zero today. The seagrass is growing very fast; however, this is a relatively fast growing species to start with.

I am happy to read the you are having success with your manatee grass. I would guess that manatee grass would be more challenging than Halophilla sp., which is tolerant to many variables. Are you dosing iron?

[nawilson89]

Originally Posted by Xeniaamore

I generally agree that it is dangerous to add a bunch of fish to a saltwater planted system, especially if still fine tuning. I personally lost my two fish when I first started injecting CO2. This was because I was trying to make the CO2 dissolve as efficiently as possible, and my first ended up getting gas bubble disease. Since then I have gone fisheless.

Animals and plants need different conditions to survive. What is good for animals in an aquarium can be deadly for plants and vice versa. That being said, once a balance is established, it can be a beautiful thing to see fish amongst the seagrass. But seagrass is demanding, and that often means no fish (for now).

If you are trying to get macros to grow along side your seagrass, this is even difficult. Yes, seagrass do well in nature with low nutrients due to their ability to out compete algae in these situations, but in the aquarium, growth will be heavily accelerated by nutrient dosing.

I am very happy to say that the Seachem Flourish product is working wonders. I can dose the tank as much as I want but rarely have algae issues I raised my nitrate to 60 the other day. It was back to zero today. The seagrass is growing very fast; however, this is a relatively fast growing species to start with.

I am happy to read the you are having success with your manatee grass. I would guess that manatee grass would be more challenging than Halophilla sp., which is tolerant to many variables. Are you dosing iron?

You're dosing with seachem flourish? That's a first I've heard of that outside of freshwater. That's super cool.

[karimwassef]

Never said it wasn't doing well. Fish poo is plant food. You can have poo and pristine water, by the way.

You just need worms.

I admit that I'm no authority on planted tanks. But every project needs someone to inject chaos. It allows you to consider leaps that are non-incremental.

http://www.fivefacesofgenius.com

I love your tank, by the way. From back when it was plastic bottles and putty...

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks for stopping by, Xeniaamore. That's the plan, to keep the fish load low, while I tweak the dosing. I hoped to get a tang, to crop my caulerpa back, but it hasn't happened yet. I have been dosing potassium nitrate and iron, but I have backed off a bit while I experiment with substrate fertilizing. I am working with glutamic acid. I have been injecting CO2 throughout.

It just seems likely, given that these plants grow in pristine waters, but with massive buildup of detritus around their roots, that they'd favor root uptake. And since they favor ammonia over nitrate, I'm giving them ammonia. I'm pushing it about two inches into the sand. So far, no algae uptick. I'm trying to get nutrients to the grasses, rather than the macros. The caulerpa in particular seems to gobble up everything I dose the water column. I've noticed a slowing of their growth rate since I've been substrate dosing. I may not have to prune caulerpa this weekend!

You said you had less success substrate dosing. What did you use, plant tabs?

The manatee grass has been the most challenging. I have had a breakthrough with it (see previous page), with two plants splitting and forming new rhizomes and plants. I'm pretty sure this was due to substrate dosing, so I have hope.

I'm happy to hear you're having success with Flourish. I just checked it out online. It looks like a good source of minor and trace elements. I see chlorine, potassium and iron (and sulfur!) are the largest components. Are you adding a nitrogen source? I wonder if I'm lacking any trace elements that could be limiting growth. I've got some Sachem Equilibrium, from my freshwater planted tank days. It's more of a mineral balance, general hardness supplement. I doubt I need it, with coralline algae popping up around the tank. I'm running the CO2 through my canister filter, which has calcium carbonate in one chamber, acting as a mild calcium reactor.

I'd love to hear more from you!

[Michael Hoaster]

So, for the first time, I'm seeing a lot of new blades of manatee grass! I counted sixteen young leaves.

I'm pretty sure it's due to the substrate dosing.

For the last few weeks I have reduced water column dosing (nitrate, iron) to the point I can see a reduction in caulerpa growth. At the start of this reduced water dosing, I started substrate dosing, but only near manatee grass plants. Since the manatee grasses are the only plants showing marked improvement, I conclude that manatee grass responds well to substrate dosing.

I have more things to test. I've been substrate dosing using two different things-regular plant tabs and glutamic acid pills. I'd like to find out if one works better than the other, and I want to test it on the turtle grass as well.

Still so much to learn!

[sam.basye]

I like karim's fish poo theory except for my own selfish reasons.


The more the fish poo = the more the fish!


Currently, this thread -
Is like watching grass grow...


Some of us are ready for some fish swimming action! Those caves need grammas and a tang with a school o' fish to herd.


Your conch needs things to look at.

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

[Michael Hoaster]

I know, I want more fish too! Hopefully, my LFS can get me the tang I want. I'm watching a couple of online venders for the gramma harem. Some day…

Yeah, just watching grass grow. Not a lot here if you're not into seagrass. (Personally, I'm super stoked on my manatee grass breakthrough) It must be frustrating, coming here, only to find more news on seagrass. Now that I think about it, I have no idea why anyone comes by at all. I'm like the weird cousin, doing something odd with an aquarium, in the basement, and nobody cares… poor me! No need to console me. I like being that guy!

I'm pulled in two directions. It'd be nice to have more fish, which would make for more entertaining viewing. On the other hand, this is a very exciting time for me. I'm starting to get a feel for what I can do to for the seagrass, which is my primary focus. I need to be able to experiment without having to worry about killing fish.

So hang in there, patient visitors! Tomorrow I may be able to report another new blade of grass…

[nawilson89]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

I know, I want more fish too! Hopefully, my LFS can get me the tang I want. I'm watching a couple of online venders for the gramma harem. Some day…

Yeah, just watching grass grow. Not a lot here if you're not into seagrass. (Personally, I'm super stoked on my manatee grass breakthrough) It must be frustrating, coming here, only to find more news on seagrass. Now that I think about it, I have no idea why anyone comes by at all. I'm like the weird cousin, doing something odd with an aquarium, in the basement, and nobody cares… poor me! No need to console me. I like being that guy!

I'm pulled in two directions. It'd be nice to have more fish, which would make for more entertaining viewing. On the other hand, this is a very exciting time for me. I'm starting to get a feel for what I can do to for the seagrass, which is my primary focus. I need to be able to experiment without having to worry about killing fish.

So hang in there, patient visitors! Tomorrow I may be able to report another new blade of grass…

Aren't we all the weird cousins though? Us aquarists. Not many people in my family understand my aquarium obsession; which I don't really mind. I love my hobbies. I'm desperately waiting to see which one of your substrate additives are working for you, I for one were thinking of purchasing some root tabs and adding it to my seagrass bed and seeing if that prompts growth on their end.

[Michael Hoaster]

I guess you could say we're all weirdos, if you like. I just thought of myself being a bit further out there, with this seagrass thing, and very few fish.

I never did ask you, what are you dosing? It would be great to hear your experience using plant tabs. But you may want to take it easy, so early in your tank's life. The ones I chose are pretty low in phosphate. I did this to discourage algae growth. They are not even aquarium-specific.

Anyway, welcome to the basement!

[nawilson89]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

I guess you could say we're all weirdos, if you like. I just thought of myself being a bit further out there, with this seagrass thing, and very few fish.

I never did ask you, what are you dosing? It would be great to hear your experience using plant tabs. But you may want to take it easy, so early in your tank's life. The ones I chose are pretty low in phosphate. I did this to discourage algae growth. They are not even aquarium-specific.

Anyway, welcome to the basement!

I'm dosing Kents marine lugols solution which seems like iodine with a few others and iron with manganese. It's what someone else I was following last year used to dose with.


If I do anything with plant tabs I'll probably go seachem. I'll check it once my laptop is done resetting.

[karimwassef]

adding a bit of fish for color

[Michael Hoaster]

Still watching grass grow.

I've had a total of three manatee grass 'splits', where they fork off into new rhizomes and new plants. I know it doesn't sound like much, with plants like caulerpa growing much faster, but this is the holy grail for me. Finally seeing real progress with my pivotal species is very nice!

No pics for now, but maybe this weekend. With so many new blades, the meadow grows more lush.

[karimwassef]

You could run a time-lapse video to make the grass growing a lot more exciting.

[Michael Hoaster]

Big caulerpa export today. I have been able to slow its growth, but it still accumulates.

I am very excited with new grass growth! I now count four manatee grasses splitting. Each plant turns into five plants, to start. That's a significant number of new blades popping up! They're still short, for now, less than a foot tall. But they are growing! Getting these plants to multiply has been my goal for a year now. I hope this is the start of some real progress!

I've been experimenting with dosing for the past few months. Water column dosing seemed to have only a small effect on the manatee grass. They grew taller, but did not multiply. Substrate fertilization appears to have triggered reproduction. I will continue to test and confirm. This method is easier for me. No more daily dosing the water. It also has the benefit of not feeding the wrong plants, like caulerpa. And the anemone is happier-it's not a fan of nitrate dosing.

So, things are good!

[Michael Hoaster]

Here are some pics of the manatee grass. Lot's of new blades!












And one of the anemone and shrimp.

[karimwassef]

What's the red bundle in the second pic?

[saltwater sam]

Wow, it looks great Michael, the manatee grass is awesome! Watching grass grow is the name of the game at this point, nothing wrong with that!

[rick12]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Thanks, and welcome, rick12!

I read your thread on going skimmer-less. I think for most marine aquariums, skimmers are a useful tool. There's no arguing they do remove some nasty gunk! I forget who said it, but I love this quote (I'm paraphrasing): "For those who doubt the efficacy of skimmers, I invite you to drink from my collection cup."

For tanks like mine, with massive plant growth and a growing number of filter feeders, they are unnecessary. A skimmer is really just a man made substitute for what Mother Nature would be happy to do for you. I am free from the noise, adjustments and cleaning, and I like it!

I agree, that skimmers are not necessary for your set up. I have multiple tanks and do not use skimmers on anything 50 g or less. Waterchange works well.
Love the macros and grasses. These are just not obtainable here in Canada. It's a chance to even get mangrove pods over the border. Lol.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks, Sam. Getting these plants to multiply is very gratifying! I know visually it's not that obvious, but once all these new blades grow tall, it'll have more impact. Can't wait!

[Michael Hoaster]

Right on, rick12! I've been in a simplifying mode with this tank. I am surprised how much I like it.

That's weird, you can't get plants. I assume you can get fish and corals?

[rick12]

Yeah we get it all, but sea grass hardly likely, and macros are rare. Suppliers have a big expense to bring these over the border. Sea grasses especially wouldn't show profits. I spend yearly vacations in Florida and well, can't bring any of this home. So many restrictions. I laugh at the mangrove pods lying on the beach every morning.

Mangrove pods are about $16 per pod at the LFS here.
I did get 80 pods shipped from Hawaii at a reasonable cost once but it was actually a long story with border agents. (Seeds are allowed but plants need complicated and expensive paperwork.) agents don't know if mangrove pods are seeds or plants. Take your chance
Some agents allow them, while others toss them in the bin.

[Michael Hoaster]

More manatee grass blades sprouting up! Everyday I check, there's more! Not much to show, pic-wise, but when they get taller, it should look pretty cool.

As for the current dosing scheme, I have suspended nitrate and iron. I'm continuing with CO2, and sodium silicate. There are several small fragments of plant tabs and glutamic acid pills pushed into the substrate. I'll probably re-dose them after a month. These appear to be the catalyst for the manatee grass' current burst of reproduction. As an added bonus, it's much less stressful to the other tank inhabitants. I think the anemone was getting tired of being my canary-in-a-coalmine.

I'm dosing the silicate for sponges and snails. If all goes well, I'll be getting some new sponges from my future Colorado neighborino, Griffin Marsh! I'm super stoked!

Last but not least is the canister filter. I'm currently running some aragonite for calcium. Remember I'm running the CO2 through it. I've got a bit of coralline algae here and there-even on the grasses. I'm also running some bio-ball-type stuff in there as a half a$$ed nitrate factory.

Peace!

[sam.basye]

Everything sounds like it is going great! How's the weird cousin thing working out in the basement? lol

Any update on the tang from the lfs?

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks, Sam. Exciting times for this weirdo! Yes, I do feel isolated occasionally. I may be getting weirder.

The tang still is a possibility. I just want to make sure that it's the right fish for my situation. The owner of my LFS said he doubted it would eat much caulerpa. If that's true, I may want a different fish or invert. Anyway, they can get me one, if I want it. I've managed to slow the caulerpa's growth, so it's a bit less urgent now. When I was dosing nitrate, it was getting out of hand!