Protocol for using antibiotics to treat infected anemones ~Added to 7/30/14 - Page 5

KCFITZ78 · 03/12/2014, 10:01 AM

Does Erythromycin work?

this is me · 03/13/2014, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by this is me

I'm planning on doing this treatment when I acquire a gigantea. What kind of light during the treatment process? Does it need to be strong MH light during the treatment? Wouldn't the strong light makes the cipro dissolve too fast and not give it enough time to treat the infection?

Does anyone actually check this thread? lol

OrionN · 03/13/2014, 07:26 PM

I used full light when I treat if I can. Other people seem to use less light.
I used a 40W LED plus morning sunlight before but now just use the 40W LED on top of my 20 gal tank
Light break down Cipro so treated and add med at begin of night cycle

AD87 · 03/13/2014, 09:33 PM

I have used a single household power compact screw light bulb in the past.

prior20 · 03/31/2014, 09:27 PM

I can get a Pharos led fixture to use but I'm not sure how to set the intensity to the news liking. Should I be worried about too much intensity? Is there an ideal PAR range?

ir_danno22 · 03/31/2014, 10:49 PM

Interesting read knowing Cipro kills off a wide range of good and bad bacteria.

prior20 · 03/31/2014, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prior20

I can get a Pharos led fixture to use but I'm not sure how to set the intensity to the news liking. Should I be worried about too much intensity? Is there an ideal PAR range?

Sorry for the autocorrect meant to say the nems liking not news.

OrionN · 04/01/2014, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ir_danno22

Interesting read knowing Cipro kills off a wide range of good and bad bacteria.

Antibiotic in the tank is bad. Because of this, they should be treat in the Bare treatment tank.

OrionN · 04/02/2014, 05:18 AM

The last two anemones I treated did not response well to Cipro. They continue to deflates for 3 days after on Cipro so I switch antibiotic.
I used co-trimazole (brand name Bactrum DS or Septra DS), each containing 800 mg sulfamethoxazole and 160 mg trimethoprim, to treat them.
Web search indicated that these medication also break down in the environment by photo-degradation. There is a Master Thesis at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, that look into degradation of various antibiotics in the environment.

In human, Septra DS excreted unchanged in the urine and goes down the sewage system. Dose in human is 1 tablet twice a day.

The regiment I used is 1 Septra DS for 10 gal of water. 100% water change every night as the light turn out. One week of treatment. The anemones did not deflate at all after the first day of switching antibiotic. I watch them for 3 days after I discontinue the antibiotic without problem. I put them back in the DT system last night.

rayn · 04/06/2014, 03:12 PM

I picked up a haddoni almost a week ago. Wondering what determines or justifies treating with cipro? Is it the mouth gaping, not attaching, constant deflating and reflating, combination? Read through the thread and didn't really see a answer other then don't treat just to treat at one point.

OrionN · 04/06/2014, 04:20 PM

I would encourage treatment if the anemone is sick
What constitute a sick anemone is your question. A veteran anemone keeper will know when an anemone is sick. This is variable and different for each species. If you don't know, your best bet is taken picture when he is at his worst and at his best. Post online and ask for advises.
There is not one or two or three thinks that would point out a sick anemone. However, repeat deflation is universally regard as sign of a sick anemone.

rayn · 04/06/2014, 04:41 PM

Thanks.

Mine attached within hours of going in the tank. It has yet to deflate, I believe that is a good sign. The mouth is open on occasion, but not by much. I don't think you could even fit a dime in there. So I presume that is good. The biggest issue I see so far is light. When they are off it is full with tentacles out. Lights come on and it kinda shrinks up as if trying to get away. They are led turned down as much as possible and three layers of egg crate to protect.

I had originally planned to great with cipro, but now I am second guessing the need to with this one.

prior20 · 04/10/2014, 10:12 PM

Mine also started off well so I put off ordering the cipro. Almost a week later it started to deflate and now I wish I had the cipro right away. Now I have the anemone in a treatment tank and have to wait until tomorrow for the cipro to arrive. My advice would be just to have it handy in case you ever need it.

Chrisq0904 · 04/12/2014, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prior20

Mine also started off well so I put off ordering the cipro. Almost a week later it started to deflate and now I wish I had the cipro right away. Now I have the anemone in a treatment tank and have to wait until tomorrow for the cipro to arrive. My advice would be just to have it handy in case you ever need it.

I agree with you on this. I almost was in the same situation but I was able to get some cipro from a local reefer. I ordered fish flox for when I ran out but what I got before seems to be enough. But I now have a full bottle in case this ever happens again.

hypnoj · 04/18/2014, 09:41 AM

Bactrim DS is also a pretty inexpensive antibiotic with better coverage then Cipro. I'm glad to see that someone has already tried it out. I'm picking up a H. Mag today and I plan on putting a quarter tablet of Bactrim right in the bag before I bring it home. I'll then acclimate it to my DT and place it in. If it starts going down hill after this, then I'll pull it back out, place in QT and begin medicating it. Wish me luck!

OrionN · 04/18/2014, 02:05 PM

If you look at the spectrum of activity, Cipro is better at taken care of water related infections in HUMAN. In anemones who know. I just choose Cipro becasue it is effective in human for water related infection, cheap and easy to get. Septra DS is OK but not as broad spectrum.
I used it before also and it seem effective the one time I used it. I added 1 Septra DS for 10 gal of water and change 100% of the water each day. Septra did not disolves as easy as Cipro in salt water. I got clumps in the water for 4 hrs after trying to disolves it in the QT. By the next morning everything have disolved.

TinManx · 04/18/2014, 02:20 PM

I am currently treating a large S. gignatea with cipro. I am on the 5th day of treatment. The anemone hasn't deflated in 3 days, and the amount of black pellets being released has diminished significantly. However there is still some black pellets being released. Should I continue treatment until the pellets stop, or do you think I am OK to cease treatment and return to the DT? Are the pellets just dead symbiotic bacteria, or something else do you think?

hypnoj · 04/18/2014, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionN

If you look at the spectrum of activity, Cipro is better at taken care of water related infections in HUMAN. In anemones who know. I just choose Cipro becasue it is effective in human for water related infection, cheap and easy to get. Septra DS is OK but not as broad spectrum.
I used it before also and it seem effective the one time I used it. I added 1 Septra DS for 10 gal of water and change 100% of the water each day. Septra did not disolves as easy as Cipro in salt water. I got clumps in the water for 4 hrs after trying to disolves it in the QT. By the next morning everything have disolved.

It won't matter what species it's in. Assuming that the medication can get into the tissues it will kill the organisms that it is designed to kill. Cipro can kill lots of organisms, but they're mostly in one family (Gram -). Bactrim can't kill as many Gram - species as Cipro, but it has greater Gram + killing potential. I will admit though, when you look at what's species are Gram -, they're the kind that you'd expect to find in water (proteus etc); so Cipro more then likely is more effective for saltwater bacteria types

OrionN · 04/18/2014, 02:48 PM

Microorganisms that infect one species or related group of species often do not infect animals of another species. What infect human does not necessary infect anemone.
For example, bird flu does not normally infect human but can wipe out a bird population. When through mutation it jumps to infect human, it can be very virulent because human never been exposed to similar virus before.
Waterborne infections in humans are mostly gram negative bacterial.

hypnoj · 04/18/2014, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionN

Microorganisms that infect one species or related group of species often do not infect animals of another species. What infect human does not necessary infect anemone.
For example, bird flu does not normally infect human but can wipe out a bird population. When through mutation it jumps to infect human, it can be very virulent because human never been exposed to similar virus before.
Waterborne infections in humans are mostly gram negative bacterial.

I'm not talking about what infects humans and what infects other creatures, I'm merely stating which antibiotics kills which organisms. It's obvious that certain bacteria infect certain creatures; whether it's human/anemone or not, has nothing to do with it. Certain antibiotics kill certain bacteria; since no one on this forum has cultured these bacterial strains, it's wise to use broad spectrum antibiotics. Broad spectrum means that it kills multiple different strains of bacteria in different species groups, ie, gram -, gram +, aerobic, anaerobic, etc.

OrionN · 04/18/2014, 11:38 PM

No, but all the pathogen for human that associated with water are gram negative. I would guess that bacterial that infect anemones are likely gram negative also. Also Cipro have good gram positive coverage also.

hypnoj · 04/19/2014, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionN

No, but all the pathogen for human that associated with water are gram negative. I would guess that bacterial that infect anemones are likely gram negative also. Also Cipro have good gram positive coverage also.

Yup, I agree. That's why Cipro is such a good choice.

KindCorals · 04/25/2014, 11:42 PM

Do you think this might work for treating infected ricordea yumas? Everyone seems to think its a bacterial infection when yuma (especially pink yumas like mine) start with brown jelly, get a hole near the mouth and melt away. It went from 2 pinks to a green and now another green yuma. I might try cipro since these are anemone corals.

OrionN · 04/26/2014, 06:25 AM

Why not try it and let us know.
Somebody should try to treat an infected Elegance also

MachPilot · 04/30/2014, 10:56 AM

It should not be a problem. Infection is infection. Organisms are not selective for which they infect.

Bacteria gets a foothold in traumatic wounds and stressful conditions just like people.

Cipro is better then E-mycin because it has a broader spectrum of coverage.
You could also use Bactrim (would need ot treat in the nighttime cycle due ot light degradation)

In a perfect world, dripping vancomycin would be THE definitive drug of choice for any anemone/invert but its not available outside of the hospital and requires dripping and maintenance of peaks and troughs.

Cipro is really the easist to use.

03/12/2014, 10:01 AM	#101
KCFITZ78 Top Prospect Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Northwest Ohio Posts: 260	Does Erythromycin work? __________________ Saltwater - Reef Tank - 65 Gallon Acrylic Hexagon by AquaView Freshwater - Discus - 45 Gallon Glass Rectangular by Marineland

03/13/2014, 07:26 PM	#103
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	I used full light when I treat if I can. Other people seem to use less light. I used a 40W LED plus morning sunlight before but now just use the 40W LED on top of my 20 gal tank Light break down Cipro so treated and add med at begin of night cycle __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

03/31/2014, 10:49 PM	#106
ir_danno22 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Northern Cali Posts: 288	Interesting read knowing Cipro kills off a wide range of good and bad bacteria. __________________ Nano Cube DX, 40 Breeder. Current Tank Info: Nanocube 28DX reef with AI sol, Aqueon 40 gallon breeder Feb 2011.

04/02/2014, 05:18 AM	#109
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	The last two anemones I treated did not response well to Cipro. They continue to deflates for 3 days after on Cipro so I switch antibiotic. I used co-trimazole (brand name Bactrum DS or Septra DS), each containing 800 mg sulfamethoxazole and 160 mg trimethoprim, to treat them. Web search indicated that these medication also break down in the environment by photo-degradation. There is a Master Thesis at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, that look into degradation of various antibiotics in the environment. In human, Septra DS excreted unchanged in the urine and goes down the sewage system. Dose in human is 1 tablet twice a day. The regiment I used is 1 Septra DS for 10 gal of water. 100% water change every night as the light turn out. One week of treatment. The anemones did not deflate at all after the first day of switching antibiotic. I watch them for 3 days after I discontinue the antibiotic without problem. I put them back in the DT system last night. __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

04/06/2014, 03:12 PM	#110
rayn Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pekin, Il Posts: 2,864	I picked up a haddoni almost a week ago. Wondering what determines or justifies treating with cipro? Is it the mouth gaping, not attaching, constant deflating and reflating, combination? Read through the thread and didn't really see a answer other then don't treat just to treat at one point. __________________ Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...

03/13/2014, 09:33 PM	#104
AD87 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,819	I have used a single household power compact screw light bulb in the past.

03/31/2014, 09:27 PM	#105
prior20 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: STL Posts: 192	I can get a Pharos led fixture to use but I'm not sure how to set the intensity to the news liking. Should I be worried about too much intensity? Is there an ideal PAR range?

04/06/2014, 04:20 PM	#111
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	I would encourage treatment if the anemone is sick What constitute a sick anemone is your question. A veteran anemone keeper will know when an anemone is sick. This is variable and different for each species. If you don't know, your best bet is taken picture when he is at his worst and at his best. Post online and ask for advises. There is not one or two or three thinks that would point out a sick anemone. However, repeat deflation is universally regard as sign of a sick anemone. __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

04/06/2014, 04:41 PM	#112
rayn Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pekin, Il Posts: 2,864	Thanks. Mine attached within hours of going in the tank. It has yet to deflate, I believe that is a good sign. The mouth is open on occasion, but not by much. I don't think you could even fit a dime in there. So I presume that is good. The biggest issue I see so far is light. When they are off it is full with tentacles out. Lights come on and it kinda shrinks up as if trying to get away. They are led turned down as much as possible and three layers of egg crate to protect. I had originally planned to great with cipro, but now I am second guessing the need to with this one. __________________ Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...

04/10/2014, 10:12 PM	#113
prior20 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: STL Posts: 192	Mine also started off well so I put off ordering the cipro. Almost a week later it started to deflate and now I wish I had the cipro right away. Now I have the anemone in a treatment tank and have to wait until tomorrow for the cipro to arrive. My advice would be just to have it handy in case you ever need it.

04/18/2014, 09:41 AM	#115
hypnoj Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 952	Bactrim DS is also a pretty inexpensive antibiotic with better coverage then Cipro. I'm glad to see that someone has already tried it out. I'm picking up a H. Mag today and I plan on putting a quarter tablet of Bactrim right in the bag before I bring it home. I'll then acclimate it to my DT and place it in. If it starts going down hill after this, then I'll pull it back out, place in QT and begin medicating it. Wish me luck!

04/18/2014, 02:05 PM	#116
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	If you look at the spectrum of activity, Cipro is better at taken care of water related infections in HUMAN. In anemones who know. I just choose Cipro becasue it is effective in human for water related infection, cheap and easy to get. Septra DS is OK but not as broad spectrum. I used it before also and it seem effective the one time I used it. I added 1 Septra DS for 10 gal of water and change 100% of the water each day. Septra did not disolves as easy as Cipro in salt water. I got clumps in the water for 4 hrs after trying to disolves it in the QT. By the next morning everything have disolved. __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

04/18/2014, 02:20 PM	#117
TinManx Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 126	I am currently treating a large S. gignatea with cipro. I am on the 5th day of treatment. The anemone hasn't deflated in 3 days, and the amount of black pellets being released has diminished significantly. However there is still some black pellets being released. Should I continue treatment until the pellets stop, or do you think I am OK to cease treatment and return to the DT? Are the pellets just dead symbiotic bacteria, or something else do you think?

04/18/2014, 02:48 PM	#119
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	Microorganisms that infect one species or related group of species often do not infect animals of another species. What infect human does not necessary infect anemone. For example, bird flu does not normally infect human but can wipe out a bird population. When through mutation it jumps to infect human, it can be very virulent because human never been exposed to similar virus before. Waterborne infections in humans are mostly gram negative bacterial. __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

04/18/2014, 11:38 PM	#121
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	No, but all the pathogen for human that associated with water are gram negative. I would guess that bacterial that infect anemones are likely gram negative also. Also Cipro have good gram positive coverage also. __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

04/25/2014, 11:42 PM	#123
KindCorals Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Surfers Paradise, Australia Posts: 568	Do you think this might work for treating infected ricordea yumas? Everyone seems to think its a bacterial infection when yuma (especially pink yumas like mine) start with brown jelly, get a hole near the mouth and melt away. It went from 2 pinks to a green and now another green yuma. I might try cipro since these are anemone corals.

04/26/2014, 06:25 AM	#124
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	Why not try it and let us know. Somebody should try to treat an infected Elegance also __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

04/30/2014, 10:56 AM	#125
MachPilot Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 37	It should not be a problem. Infection is infection. Organisms are not selective for which they infect. Bacteria gets a foothold in traumatic wounds and stressful conditions just like people. Cipro is better then E-mycin because it has a broader spectrum of coverage. You could also use Bactrim (would need ot treat in the nighttime cycle due ot light degradation) In a perfect world, dripping vancomycin would be THE definitive drug of choice for any anemone/invert but its not available outside of the hospital and requires dripping and maintenance of peaks and troughs. Cipro is really the easist to use.