Bubble King Setup, Tuning and trouble shooting thread. Post your questions here!

[slief]

Originally Posted by biecacka

It is interesting to be because they go crazy with clean socks. The chamber is in an area that water level cannot be sustained at a height that changes without sock. I attribute it to maybe a sudden "gushing" of water towards the pump until it settles with a new sock put on. However it overflowed today which is why I ask. I am paying very close attention as I am still trying to find that sweet spot on my skimmer.

Corey

Not sure how you wash your socks but I use bleach and do it in the washing machine with an extra rinse cycle and a pre wash cycle. I also turn the socks inside out when they go into the wash to help get the waste out of them. New or clean socks can change the surface tension in the water which can have a direct impact on the skimmer. In my setup, I don't have any issues when I change my socks but I don't run my skimmer all that wet either. The wetter you run the skimmer, the great the chance of it overflowing. Finding the balance that works best it the tricking part. Especially when we try to judge our skimmers performance based on how much we see in the collection cup. I've learned that if my skimmer is running consistenly and always pulling out some skimmate, it's not how much it pulls out but instead the quality of what it pulls out.

[biecacka]

I wash mine that way too. I'm trying to dry mine up as far as skim goes. I just don't want it going days and not doing anything. I'm making small tweaks and letting it sit for a few hours.
On a separate note tho, once I get the nitrates more controlled i can feed more which will help the skimmer perform better

Corey

[himat]

hi

just what to know the increment settings on the RD3

Now I have got the DC 200 from a fellow reefer.
what i have read on this thread is mentioned to adjust power level 26-27, etc in 1 watt increments , the RD3 controller i have increments in 2 watts.
Is there a setting to adjust in 1 watt increments or is this fixed. its not very clear in the instructions what increments are for the RD3 50W controller.

[slief]

Originally Posted by himat

hi

just what to know the increment settings on the RD3

Now I have got the DC 200 from a fellow reefer.
what i have read on this thread is mentioned to adjust power level 26-27, etc in 1 watt increments , the RD3 controller i have increments in 2 watts.
Is there a setting to adjust in 1 watt increments or is this fixed. its not very clear in the instructions what increments are for the RD3 50W controller.

The latest European RD3 controllers are only adjustable in 2w increments as are the latest version of the RD3 pumps sold here in the US with the smaller controller. This is a recent change with the newest controllers. On your DC 200, I would suggest starting it at 28 watts. Depending on your load, you sweet spot will likely be either 26, 28 or 30 watts unless you have a very low load system.

[himat]

thanks,
will try at it at 28 and see how it goes, at present 30w and wedge pipe closed two lines
from fully open.

[slief]

Originally Posted by himat

thanks,
will try at it at 28 and see how it goes, at present 30w and wedge pipe closed two lines
from fully open.

You will likely need to close the wedge pipe slightly more once you reduce the speed. Give it several hours after you make the pump speed adjustment before making any wedge pipe adjustments just so you can get a feel for or the change in foam. The pump speed adjustment will result in increased contact time and smaller bubbles which should translate to a more dense foam. The change will also result in less water going into the skimmer which will lower the water level in the neck slightly. Thus the potential need to close the wedge pipe a bit if your foam isn't reaching the top edge of the neck after several hours.

[himat]

will do,
is it normal for the skimmer foam to collapse when feeding i always notice this on my prevues skimmer as well,

[slief]

Originally Posted by himat

will do,
is it normal for the skimmer foam to collapse when feeding i always notice this on my prevues skimmer as well,

Very normal. The oils in the food change the surface tension of the water and will collapse the foam head temporarily. This is particularly common when feeding oily foods such as mysis and rinsing in RODI water will help reduce that phenomenon. The same thing can happen if you place your hands in the water near the skimmer as the oil on your skin can have the same impact on some systems.

[himat]

hi
slief

update on skimmer after one week
my Total display tanks are 745 litres display and frag tank
total fish stock at present 37 fish tangs, angels, wrasses , clowns
mainly SPS.
Display Pic
DSC_0310.jpg
skimmer in water depth of 22.5cm max i can do in my sump.
see photo of skimmer one week running at 30w wedge pipe at 1/3 to 1/2 closed
DSC_0307.jpg

skimate is dark and grubby in the neck
want to try for little wetter, will try at 32 with wedge pipe closed at 2 line from fully open,
not sure if skimmer is broke in yet.

[slief]

Originally Posted by himat

hi
slief

update on skimmer after one week
my Total display tanks are 745 litres display and frag tank
total fish stock at present 37 fish tangs, angels, wrasses , clowns
mainly SPS.
Display Pic
Attachment 340607
skimmer in water depth of 22.5cm max i can do in my sump.
see photo of skimmer one week running at 30w wedge pipe at 1/3 to 1/2 closed
Attachment 340606

skimate is dark and grubby in the neck
want to try for little wetter, will try at 32 with wedge pipe closed at 2 line from fully open,
not sure if skimmer is broke in yet.

It won't hurt to bump the flow up but that skimmer looks like it's working great based on the skimmate. Running wetter won't really remove any more waste from the water. It will just produce lighter colored skimmate and remove more water from the system. You will also decrease the contact time slightly which will result in the skimmer not being as efficient in remove the waste meaning that the water will potentially have to pass through the skimmer more times to remove the organics. Then again, experimenting is part of learning the skimmer so you know how well these settings work now, adjusting it a bit higher and even a bit lower (will necessitate closing the wedge pipe a bit more) will help you better understand your skimmer as well as help you in finding your sweet spot.

Please report back so we can and let us know how it works and post some more pictures so we see your results.

[autodave]

Hi Scott, I am hoping you can provide some insight for me.

I am running a Double Cone 150, water depth is 6.25 in., wedge pipe is 25% closed, pump nozzle is 1 turn out. It has been running a little over 4 weeks.

My tank is a 93g, 5 year old established reef with a medium/light load.

My issue is that I get the skimmer setup running fine, producing a good foam and collecting a good color absorbate. It will skim great for a day or two then the water level in the skimmer will rise on it's own, usually resulting in the skimmer overflowing.
Any help why it might be doing this would be great! -Dave

[slief]

Originally Posted by autodave

Hi Scott, I am hoping you can provide some insight for me.

I am running a Double Cone 150, water depth is 6.25 in., wedge pipe is 25% closed, pump nozzle is 1 turn out. It has been running a little over 4 weeks.

My tank is a 93g, 5 year old established reef with a medium/light load.

My issue is that I get the skimmer setup running fine, producing a good foam and collecting a good color absorbate. It will skim great for a day or two then the water level in the skimmer will rise on it's own, usually resulting in the skimmer overflowing.
Any help why it might be doing this would be great! -Dave

You're pushing too much water and not enough air into that skimmer which is why it's rising and overflowing after it settles in. Opening the nozzle will decrease the flow of water into the skimmer, increase the air and increasing the contact time. The reduction in flow will lower the water level in the skimmer and stop the overflowing and also prevent surging which happens when the water comes into the skimmer faster than it can drain out. The level will rise until a siphon is created out of the drain line. You may need to raise your sump level a bit after making the adjustment because you don't want to have to close the wedge pipe more than 50% to adjust the water level.


Open the volute/nozzle to 4.5 full turns from closed as a starting point for the Double Cone 150. I suggest closing the nozzle all the way and marking the nozzle with a sharpie so you have a clear line across the nozzle and the part it threads into on the volume. This way you have a good reference point as to where you are in terms of fine tuning. The sweet spot for the Double Cone 150 skimmer will be some place between 4 and 5 turns out on the nozzle but generally about 4.5 turns on the nozzle is real close and in most cases perfect. If the load in the tank is really low (for the skimmer), you will be closer to 4 turns out where as with a heavy load, closer to 5 turns out. Either way, I'd start at 4.5 turns, let it settle in for a day. Adjust the sump level to get the transition from water to foam up into the neck right at the top of the threaded collar where the neck attaches to the body. My guess is that you will need to raise the sump level about 1/2". Use the wedge pipe to adjust from there but avoid closing the wedge pipe more than 50%. If you need to close it more than 50%, increase the sump level slightly.

Once it settles in for a day or two and you get a good idea of how the foam looks, you can experiment a bit with the nozzle by closing it a fraction of a turn. A tiny bit at this point will make a big difference so don't turn it 1/4 turn at a time but instead 1/16th or so at a time and note how the change effects the skimmer by looking at the density of the foam. Also keep in mind that every time you reach into the sump to adjust the nozzle, the oils from your skin will impact the surface tension of the water. As such, it will take several hours for the skimmer to settle back before you really know the impact of the adjustment. As such, be sure to allow plenty of time between adjustments so you really know the full impact of them.

[autodave]

I am confused about the nozzle. You said opening it (I'm assuming you mean turning it counter- clockwise) will decrease the flow of water. But on the instruction manual they say the opposite...
The water intake screw-on nozzle is designed to control the amount of water pumped into the mixing chamber. Turning the nozzle counter-clockwise will increase the water pumping capacity and screwing it clockwise will reduce the throughput (about 500 litres per turn).

[ranger2806]

I am having A hard time understanding adjusting the DC 151 it talks about adjusting the white nozzle and having it to turns out does that mean with it all away screwed tight and backing it out to turns if that's the case why is there like 15 turns that it can come out or is it when u start to see actual threads showing? and where are you wanting to have the water level inside the cone?and are they saying to have where the bubbles go to foam right at the bottom of the neck where the wet foam goes to dry foam?

[slief]

Originally Posted by autodave

I am confused about the nozzle. You said opening it (I'm assuming you mean turning it counter- clockwise) will decrease the flow of water. But on the instruction manual they say the opposite...
The water intake screw-on nozzle is designed to control the amount of water pumped into the mixing chamber. Turning the nozzle counter-clockwise will increase the water pumping capacity and screwing it clockwise will reduce the throughput (about 500 litres per turn).

The Nozzle when screwed all the way in (clockwise) will restrict the airflow. These pumps spin at one speed and don't know the difference between water and air. The less air it draws in, the more water it will pump into the skimmer. When you open the nozzle by turning it counter clockwise, it allows more air into the pump which reduces the water flow because air is displacing the water contrary to what the manual states. And contrary to what the manual states, start at 4.5 full turns out. I will have to have a discussion with the guys in Germany regarding the manual because it's counterintuitive and not really correct.

[slief]

Originally Posted by ranger2806

I am having A hard time understanding adjusting the DC 151 it talks about adjusting the white nozzle and having it to turns out does that mean with it all away screwed tight and backing it out to turns if that's the case why is there like 15 turns that it can come out or is it when u start to see actual threads showing? and where are you wanting to have the water level inside the cone?and are they saying to have where the bubbles go to foam right at the bottom of the neck where the wet foam goes to dry foam?

See my posts above. Screw it in clockwise until it's tight. Mark it with a sharpie pen with a straight line across the top of the nozzle and the part it threads into so you have a reference point. Unscrew the nozzle 4 1/2 full turns out from fully closed and start there. The manual states a starting point of 1.5 turns out and in my experience, that is not a good setting for this skimmer. The ideal setting is anywhere from 4 to 5 full turns out from fully closed and a sump depth of 6.5" - 7.5" depending on the load. I would normally suggest a starting depth of 6.75" with the wedge pipe wide open.

You want the water/fast moving bubbles to transition to foam right around to top side of the white flange where the neck threads to the skimmer body. You should see a solid obvious line in the neck where this transition from bubbles to foam occurs. If the load is light or if you want a wetter skim, you will raise that line up higher in the neck. If the skimmate is too wet or if you are having issues with it overflowing then you may need that transition line to be lower. It's heavily dependent on the load. In a heavy load, the skimmer will generate more foam and that necessates a lower level in the skimmer. Once the skimmer catches up and reduces the amount of dissolved organics, you will likely need to make an adjustment in the level inside the skimmer to fine tune it so it remains consistent.

[autodave]

Thank you for the clarification. I have turned the nozzle out 4.5 turns, set my water level at 7 inches, and I am running the wedge 100% open, unfortunately now the skimmer just overflows at those settings.
It seems like everything is running proper with the skimmer and I have not upset my water chemistry at all. Any suggestions? I was just going to let it run.

[slief]

Originally Posted by autodave

Thank you for the clarification. I have turned the nozzle out 4.5 turns, set my water level at 7 inches, and I am running the wedge 100% open, unfortunately now the skimmer just overflows at those settings.
It seems like everything is running proper with the skimmer and I have not upset my water chemistry at all. Any suggestions? I was just going to let it run.

You could let it run like it is but I suspect you will need to lower your water level. If you decide to ride it out for a day, remove the drain plug in the collection cup so it can overflow back into the sump and not fill your cup. Like I said in my original reply to you. Open the volute to 4.5 turns and wait a day. That waiting a day part gives the skimmer a chance to settle down with the new setting. This helps avoid the overflowing like you are seeing now. Then you adjust the sump level so that the transition from bubbles to foam is at at the top of the threaded collar. I also told you that you will probably need to raise your sump level 1/2". You were at 6.25" before. That would mean 6.75" and not 7" but again, you make the first adjustment (nozzle) and let it settle in for a day. Then you make the sump level adjustment and you should do it incrementally as a little bit of sump level increase can make a substantial difference in the level inside the skimmer. The more you raise your sump level, the higher the water will rise in the skimmer and there will be a point at which it will overflow if you have it too deep. If you are overflowing, you have the sump level too high. Either way, I don't think you let the skimmer settle in for long enough before making the sump level adjustment. In the mean time, drop the sump level to 6.5" and leave it overnight. If you are worried about it overflowing, remove the drain plug from the collection cup so it can drain into the sump while it settles in. The foam in the skimmer should change over the next several hours anyways so adjustments you make now to your sump level will likely be a bit futile. I am however reasonably certain that at 6.5" you will be able to use your wedge pipe to adjust it up from there without needing to go past 1/2 closed on the wedge. That is speculation though because the amount of dissolved organics and your saility have a direct impact on that and no two tanks are the same.

You use the volute nozzle to create the most dense foam you can while keeping the skimmer as stable as possible. For the 150, that is generally around 4.5 turns out. The kind of foam that doesn't just create bubbles that burst at the surface but instead is slow churning and cloud like. Keep in mind that it takes dissolved organics to achieve that. A brand new tank will generally not have enough dissolved organics to produce great foam as the whole principle of a protein skimmer is based on foam fractioning which depends on there being adequate proteins in the water to make the bubbles stick together as they collect the proteins. Once you get the foam dialed in, then you use the sump level to get the water level inside the skimmer into the "ballpark" which is the base of the neck at the collar. From there you use the wedge pipe to adjust the level so that you are collecting skimmate in the cup. The higher you raise the water level, the wetter the skimmer which means it will be lighter in color. The lower the level in the neck, the drier and darker the skim will be. In our case, we are setting the skimmers nozzle to 4.5 turns out because I know that is pretty close to sweet spot for most tanks. Once we get that settled in and the sump level to the ballpark, then you can play with the nozzle a bit more to fine tune the foam if it even needs any fine tuning.

Any skimmer presents a bit of a learning curve and you are getting speed schooling here! The good thing about making these adjustments is that you will get a feel for what these adjustments do in a real hurry and I will help keep you informed but despite the overflow, rest assured you are on the right track and you/we will have that skimmer dialed in no time. Just take it slow so you can see the results of the incremental adjustments.


Ranger2706,
I hope you are taking notes because you and autodave have the same skimmer.

[ranger2806]

Thank you very much this has helped a ton

[autodave]

I have been running my skimmer at 6.5 water depth, 4.5 turns out on the nozzle and the wedge pipe 100% open for the last 36 hours and it still continuously overflows. Do you have any recommendations? Thanks

[slief]

Originally Posted by autodave

I have been running my skimmer at 6.5 water depth, 4.5 turns out on the nozzle and the wedge pipe 100% open for the last 36 hours and it still continuously overflows. Do you have any recommendations? Thanks

You may need to lower the sump level more but the next thing I would check is to make sure there isn't salt creep in the Venturi port on the pump where the air line connects to the block. Also, if a snail or any debris made it into the pump impeller area, that could cause the issue too. Pull the airline off and remove the pump and look down into the port where the airline connects to the pump. If you see what build up in there, clean it with a tooth pick. If salt builds up in there, it has the same effect as closing the nozzle which sends more water into the skimmer. Also, look into the intake and make sure there isn't anything that made it into the pump. If there isn't, then open the nozzle a bit more or raise the skimmer 1/4". I'd probably raise the skimmer first. If you have a lot of dissolved organics in the system, that can drive the skimmer nuts until it catches up. The minimum depth for that skimmer is just under 6" and skimmers in general are very sensitive to water level. The smaller the skimmer, the more sensitive they are. As such, finding the right water level is critical. So double check the Venturi for salt creep, if there isn't any and nothing in the pump, then raise the skimmer up 1/4" or lower the sump level 1/4". If you can't raise the skimmer or lower the water level, then open the volute/nozzle 1/4 turn more and let me know what you find.

While I haven't asked this, I figure I might as well. Have you used any red slime removers or epoxy in your system recently or anything else? My guess is no but I figured I would ask.

[biecacka]

Slief here is mine now. How's it look to you? It's on 31 according to the pump. In about 9.25 inches of water. Skim is good, could maybe be a little darker tho maybe?? I'm not sure.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m...A6F6F1523.mp4]

Corey

[slief]

Originally Posted by biecacka

Slief here is mine now. How's it look to you? It's on 31 according to the pump. In about 9.25 inches of water. Skim is good, could maybe be a little darker tho maybe?? I'm not sure.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m...A6F6F1523.mp4]

Corey

It looks OK.. Bubbles looking like I would expect from the higher pump speed. That said, my guess is that the skimmer has caught up with the load so you are probably just fine there though I prefer the lower speeds as I mentioned to you earlier but that may necessitate the higher sump level.

[autodave]

After making that adjustment on the nozzle and seeing how much it overflowed, I actually disassembled the pump and inspected the volute, which was clean. I will double check it again tonight. I am sure my DOC's are rising since this skimmer really hasn't done much in the last 5 weeks.
The only thing I have added to my tank other than food and 2-part, is a frag glued down with superglue about 4 weeks ago. I do not use filter socks, GFO, carbon or biopellets. I have not done any painting in my house or anything similar. Trust me, I have been reefkeeping for over 20 yrs., I know what will set a skimmer off, lol. That's not to say I know it all, so I was considering putting my old skimmer back in and see how it reacts.
I understand what you are saying with the height but I feel I would need to raise the skimmer well more than a inch above what I have already done to get some control, so I am thinking that the water height is not the problem. I am thinking either it is a contaminate in the water or a air intake issue on the skimmer??... And I really do appreciate all of your help!

[biecacka]

Could I have went with the dc180?
For the most part, I've reached my limit of fish-30. Now once my ATS gets growing, I can feed more which should increase some doc.
Some of my fish will eventually be larger tho, so I'm sure that'll help too.

Corey