Palytoxin Poisoning

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by E.intheC

I'm going to bump this thread.. this morning when I was removing corals from frag plugs (including zoas) I accidentally hit one of the zoas and some brownish liquid came out. None of it (or anything else actually) came up and hit me, but it was in the water bin that I was using to hold the frags.

I've read that the palytoxin is a white substance.. My question is.. what is normally done to clean up surfaces and hands/etc? I've read that soap/water is the best bet.. Also, how long does the toxin stay in the air/on dry surfaces? Let's say the plug got some toxin on there, and it's on my work bench in the basement (dry).. I read the half-life is 55-85 minutes.

How about the tank.. when is it "safe" to put your hands back in the tank after introducing freshly cut zoas, or ones that have been removed from frag plugs?

Those are hard questions!! It'll all depend on the concentration found in that particular colony/frag and the exposure.

To clean the surfaces where I've fragged them I first remove the excess with a wet paper towel and I use clorox spray. After the clorox I also give it a wet cloth treat to remove excess clorox. The clorox will kill bacteria also, so that's a plus on cleaning.

It is so important to keep your mind on the project and place all the instruments and table away from children and pets!! Also you should use the table only for the aquarium purposes, not food or such.

To clean my hands I simply use regular detergent and wash/rinse really well.

To clean the instruments I use running water only and place them in a safe place.

I believe the toxin won't be in the air unless you boil water and hit the zoanthids, "released as a gas". I guess it will actually bound with the water molecules and be suspended in the air. It will be dissipated and not concentrated after a while, settling somewhere, depending on the environment. Again that will all depend on the situation, but you won't do that after knowing, right? So, basically there will be no toxins in the air if you are only fragging in normal conditions. No boiling water on the zoas, please!

Most of the time the toxin is in the fluid that comes out of the polyps and you'll need to discard your gloves and clean really well the table where you did the fragging or handled the polyps.

The polyps can release the toxin when you touch them, yes, and even if you won't see any white substances it could be present on the outside of the polyps (wet or dry).

I do believe the skimmer removes the toxins from the tank water after a while and that is another reason to keep them running and doing their great job!! The time for the skimmer to remove will depend on the system as well, besides the amount/concentration of the toxin, of course.

Keep it safe and have fun!

Grandis.

[Fishypapa]

I'm bumping this thread also.

Another reminder to all those who don't necessarily mess with Zoas or others but last night I was moving a new rose bubbletip anemone into the DT without gloves (of stupidly course for me) I noticed a kind of slime coming off it but didn't think anything of it and put it down into the tank. When I pulled my hand out it was now completely covered it as I call it "slime." I immediately went to wash my hands and it took a while to get it all off.

Later in the evening I was feeling a bit ill (feverish and dizzy) so I went to bed early. A little bit afterward (even with fans off and a warm house) I was feeling so cold I had a down-filled blanket on and was shivering and sweating profusely at the same time.

This morning when I awoke I still felt strange and light-headed but the fever wasn't there. Around 1:00 pm this afternoon I felt a fever coming back and the dizziness starting again so went to take a nap. Right now at 9:43 PM while I'm writing this I still have the dizziness.

I've handled my green BTA before with no issue at all. The rose didn't sting me at all, just coated my hand in slime. I can only guess that I had some type of allergic reaction to whatever it was and am glad at least that it wasn't worse. Usually I wear rubber gloves with gauntlets to the shoulder but I was trying to be gentle and don't have very good sensation in those so I just left them off. (ran out of Nitrile gloves)

So, as many have said before....use gloves and eye protection and wash immediately after messing with the tank. We may think we know what's in there and the water may look crystal but it's not..

Take care and thanks for surviving the post long enough to read this.

[BlazinNitro16]

This is incredible! I'm so glad you put this together to show what can really happen. It's such a serious thing. I will never forget to wash my hands now. I hope your eye returns to 100 percent!

[ClippersTown]

hey guys, I had a question. I had a Zoa frag the other day, and the hand that i used to put it into the tank started tingling a bit after placing the frag into the tank. I always thought that these things are only bad if they are cut open?

[TampaSnooker]

Certain zoas always get my fingers tingling even without a cut or other entrypoint. My fruitloops are the worst and will leave my fingertips numb/tingly for a day and a half if I'm not careful. Others, nothing. You never know...

[reelsilly]

For those that have seen Venom ER, the doctor on that show is now here in Greenville, NC. I have sent word to him about doing a study on the paly toxins so I'm hoping I can use this thread as a go to for him to read effects on folks. It would be neat for him to dive into it and come up with some info for us.

Off topic: I am going to ask about poisonous fish as well.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Another example of palytoxin poisoning - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2321868

[650-IS350]

When I fragged lots of Z's and P's for freebies to friends and fellow local members, I would remember the air start getting thick with Zoa Fumes, to the point that I would start getting headaches or lightheadness. So ever since then I would have all windows open venting the air in the house the whole time im fragging and after im done until all the smell is done. I now do this as precaution while wearing breathing mask.

http://209.200.67.149/aosafety.com/lg/images/93030.jpg

but since i work for biotech I use the one with dual breather and face protection in case I get squirted in the eye.

[A. Grandis]

http://www.palytoxin.com

I just want to share these links.
There is a print out for doctors if you need to go to the ER:

http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Palytoxin.html

Be safe!!

Grandis.

[kkoch]

What gloves are suggested to protect myself and my aquarium?

[Fishypapa]

Originally Posted by kkoch

What gloves are suggested to protect myself and my aquarium?

I use Nitrile gloves. That's what we use in the lab here where I work and we handle some pretty nasty (toxic) stuff.

[650-IS350]

I use Nitrile gloves as well, since I work for biotech I get them there.

[kkoch]

So I went and got some gloves last night to move some things. They really only protect your hand from coming in contact with the coral, rock, etc. Water still leaks in around the wrist area.

[EllieSuz]

I use a rubber band at the wrist and it seems to keep water out pretty successfully. Save a rubber band from the next bunch of celery and try it.

[Fishypapa]

Originally Posted by EllieSuz

I use a rubber band at the wrist and it seems to keep water out pretty successfully. Save a rubber band from the next bunch of celery and try it.

+1 yep I've done this and it does work.

[alexmir]

I was cutting some Zoa frags up a few years ago, and one of them shot right up and hit me straight in the eyeball. It didn't burn real bad at first, but the eye quickly started to swell, and got a milky film over it. It was red and inflamed for 3 days. Always wear eye protection when cutting zoa frags!!

[Boston21]

As a fellow Michigander Im hoping I never have to go to U of M for this sort of thing. Thank you for sharing.

[bdeibler]

Wow never would I have thought this could happen from a coral. Good information to know!

[coryclay]

This happened to me a couple times. Needed steroid antibiotic eye drops. I wear nitrile gloves and sometimes goggles now. Its definitely the zoos.

[Guntert]

Originally Posted by coryclay

This happened to me a couple times. Needed steroid antibiotic eye drops. I wear nitrile gloves and sometimes goggles now. Its definitely the zoos.

Where can I find gloves that ur talking about? Would like some that goes all the way to shoulder. I get stomach cramps and live in the bathroom for 24 to 48 hours. I would say 75% of the time I get sick. I wash 90% of the time. I have started taking showers right after and that does help but not a cure.

[living_waters]

Wow thanks this thread funny thing is I always wash my hands before I go into my tank but not always after I'm done lol

[applejk]

Thanks for sharing the stories. Looks like I'll be wearing gloves from now on.

[Gavin288]

looked though whole Thread, passed on info to friends and family members im going to print out the Palytoxin Poisoning chart just in case you never know

[sanchezdamin]

Good to see you got to keep your eye sight! Great thread. I got blood poisoning myself after moving one tank to a larger one. There's no two ways around it. I forgot to wash thoroughly after I got the tiniest flesh wound.

[Joe0813]

yikes.... im keeping this thread handy just in case. you never know if something like that can happen to you