Fish Health Through Proper Nutrition

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by Annarae

I have a 4+" porcupine puffer that's eating thawed chunks of octopus, squid, cuttlefish, shrimp, and scallops. I found the mix at a local international foods store, it's all human grade and raw. Before serving I soak the mix in Vita-Chem. My concern is I cannot get him to eat any type of seaweed/vegetable/green stuff whatsoever. I know he's a carnivore but I've read various places that they need some green in their lives, he seems healthy and has grown from 2" when I bought him in July to over 4" now.

He's basically my girlfriend's baby as I was reluctant to put a puffer in with my smaller fish and corals, but he's been extremely well behaved and has not even glanced at his tankmates as a food option. That being said I would really like to keep it that way, any thoughts / recommendations for other nutritional foods?

He was being fed rosies at the petstore we bought him from...which he loved but we quickly coaxed him off of them after reading about his dietary needs.

If all the meat you are eating is raw then it sounds like it is getting a good diet. I would add some chopped silver side minnows too---the inside organs contain fish oils that are very valuable for the long term health. I would not worry about him not wanting a salad side dish with his meal.

[Paul B]

Real man porcupine puffers don't eat keish

[Insane Reefer]

Originally Posted by Annarae

I have a 4+" porcupine puffer that's eating thawed chunks of octopus, squid, cuttlefish, shrimp, and scallops. I know he's a carnivore but I've read various places that they need some green in their lives...

Observations show that most land based carnivores do indeed eat and "need" some greens/roughage in their diets just like herbivores need a certain amount of protein (lots of bugs in forage after all). Studies lean both ways on the topic.

If you are really concerned, you can try a trick from the Seahorse community. Trying to get all the stuff a seahorse needs to be healthy, in captivity, can be trying. So SH keepers learned to "gutload" the live feeder critters with all the stuff the seahorse should get, but often don't.

What I did when I had my Spiny Boxfish was to convert Brackish Mollies to SW, and then used their offspring to feed once or twice a week. I'd fill the feeders up with weed based flakes soaked with vitamins, and immediately feed those to the Boxfish. The upside is any that he didn't catch and eat immediately would survive until he did catch them. Alternatively, if he won't "hunt", you could freeze the gutloads and feed mixed in with the seafood blend...

I don't think you will be doing a disservice to your fish if you expand his diet a little.

[Finsky]

Does anyone have any knowledge with Clown Tangs. Mine has been in the tank for 13 days and has not touched any of the multitude of different foods I have fed the other fish. It will swim around with the other fish while they eat the food from the surface and through the food although it only chews at the algae on the back glass and water pumps? It looks quite healthy at four inches and it is not being bullied as far as I can tell as it constantly swims the length of the tank?

[jjk_reef00]

Does anyone know where to get gel binding ingredients for DIY food?
I want my food to look like the Ocean Nutrition Angel formula when I'm done. Except bigger, the size of ice cubes.

[Finsky]

Does anyone have a thought on a good all round vitamin supplement for a reef tank with corals, invertabraes, and fish.

I am already using Kent Marine-C and Selcon(which has vitamin c and one vitamin b with some lipids).

Their is Vita-Chem for multiple vitamins and then their is Kent Zoe for multiple vitamins.

Kent Marine also sells a Zoecon which sounds like it has ingredients similar to Selcon?

I want to prevent LLHE and cure one fish which has improved from a very slight case of LLHE after four months of Kent Marine-C and Selcon.

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by Finsky

Does anyone have a thought on a good all round vitamin supplement for a reef tank with corals, invertabraes, and fish.

I am already using Kent Marine-C and Selcon(which has vitamin c and one vitamin b with some lipids).

Their is Vita-Chem for multiple vitamins and then their is Kent Zoe for multiple vitamins.

Kent Marine also sells a Zoecon which sounds like it has ingredients similar to Selcon?

I want to prevent LLHE and cure one fish which has improved from a very slight case of LLHE after four months of Kent Marine-C and Selcon.

I use Seachem Reef Plus

http://www.seachem.com/Products/prod.../ReefPlus.html

[Finsky]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

I use Seachem Reef Plus

http://www.seachem.com/Products/prod.../ReefPlus.html

In addition to the Vitamin C and Selcon, I dose with Kent Marine Essential Elements, Kent Marine Strontium & Molydenum, and Kent Marine Iodide.

I am wondering whether adding the Seachem Reef Plus would conflict with any of the Kent products if I added it to my line up.

I actually had a bottle of Seachem Reef Complete in my refrigerator a year or two ago until I used it up and got away from dosing vitamins until my Regal started the very beginnings of LLHE. The LLHE has starting to recede as the tissue around its eyes is almost completely normal grayish. There are still smaller white lines above each the eyes which are turning grayish as well. I was told LLHE is a long time coming and a long time going.

I use Seachem Reef Complete and Seachem Reef Buffer on a regular basis so I do like their products.

[Coralgasm]

an ounce of good diet is worth 2 pounds of copper!

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by Finsky

In addition to the Vitamin C and Selcon, I dose with Kent Marine Essential Elements, Kent Marine Strontium & Molydenum, and Kent Marine Iodide.

I am wondering whether adding the Seachem Reef Plus would conflict with any of the Kent products if I added it to my line up.

I actually had a bottle of Seachem Reef Complete in my refrigerator a year or two ago until I used it up and got away from dosing vitamins until my Regal started the very beginnings of LLHE. The LLHE has starting to recede as the tissue around its eyes is almost completely normal grayish. There are still smaller white lines above each the eyes which are turning grayish as well. I was told LLHE is a long time coming and a long time going.

I use Seachem Reef Complete and Seachem Reef Buffer on a regular basis so I do like their products.

Glad to hear you are having some long term success with LLHE
IMO
If you are doing regular water changes with a quality salt mix then you don't need to trace dose for iodine and strontium etc. So you could get rid of those
Similarily you don't need to dose with seachem reef buffer.

The vitamens are good but again the vitamens, and selcon would be over kill(excuse the pun) with Seachem Reef Complete.

And as far as the vitamens and selcon are concerned--regular feed of a good oil based meaty food like silver side minnows would be much more effective then adding vitamens etc to the water.

[Finsky]

I prefer to keep my pH in the 8.1 to 8.4 range and follow Seachems instructions on using a pair of their products togeather, Seachem Reef Complete and Seachem Reef Buffer. I got an email from someone at Seachem who takes care of their 250 gallon SPS tank with a pH of 7.9 to 8.2 and he did not have a problem with my using both products which keeps my pH and alkalinity a little higher than with just using Seachen Reef Complete for calcium as he said their are many successful reef keepers who use both products.

I just received a 16 oz bottle of Vita-Chem which is a multiple vitamin.

I soak freeze dried mysis shrimp, freeze dried brine shrimp, red(softer for soft angel mouths) and green algae bite sized flakes made by cutting up sheets with my aquarium scissors, red and green Ocean Nutrition One and Two pellets and flakes. It is in a 1/4 measuring cup and I add a little tank water after adding vitamins and then I turn my two Hydor 8's (3,250 gph) and protein skimmer off while the fish eat up the food and then I turn the propeller pumps back on while leave the protein skimmer off for a while to let residual vitamins blow around the tank for the benefit of the invertebraes, corals, etc.

I also feed fresh squid, sea bass, razor clam, and tiger prawn meat which cut up and freeze for later thawing and feeding. I used to feed my five bubble tips razor clams exclusively as they did not go for the squid and sea bass as enthusiastically and these two left an oily film on the surface for my protein skimmer to work on.

I did find my anemones really went for the softer although not greasy tiger prawn meat which came at a decent price at the local grocery store. They were $.40 each and I bought four and cut them up and feed the anemones and some to the fish who would eat it. After this I froze the rest. I seems the fish really prefer razor clam in bite sized pieces to anything else as far as my Regal and Majestic Angels, Powder Blue and Purple Tangs, and pair of Cinnamon Clowns and various damsels and one six lined wrasse(carnivore).

My small carnivore section needs to be hand fed and it includes two smaller angler species, one Fu Manchu Dwarf Lion fish and a Redfin Waspfish prefer frozen silver sides or in the case of the waspfish he prefers frozen krill.

I am going to soak food with Vita-Chem although Reef Plus (which I have used in the past and stored on the door of my refrigertator) is also a multiple vitamin and I may pick up a bottle of that on sale at Petco who is not going to stock it anymore.

Then I could alternate or use half a dose of each along with Selcon. whose maker toats as containing fatty acids more than any other product or some such type of email to me, to soak the food. I also have a Brightwell 16 oz bottle of Vita-Marine Vitamin C which goes a long way even when I dose 24 drops a day in a five foot 120 reef tank.

I personally take a multiple vitamin and also a vitamin D, a vitamin C and a vitamin E, and a vitamin B complext on a daily basis so I figure it does not hurt to error on the more vitamin side as long as the water quality is not effected.

I turn off my protein skimmer for a couple of hours after feeding food soaked in Selcon, Vita-Chem, and Vitamin C. Selcon does have a tan creamy texture to it like Vita-Chem.

I have contacted a person from Kent Marine who personally uses Kent Marine Essential Elements every two or three weeks. There is no harm in using the Kent Marine Iodide every week and Essential Elements does not have any conflicts with other products if used as directed. The Kent Marine Strontium (dosing instructions on bottle say every four days). I was told strontium is used up in three days, is the only product which needs to be dosed at least three days apart from the Seachem Reef Complete to prevent overdosing strontium as Reef Complete consists mainly of calcium although it contains small amounts of Magnesium and Strontium.

I suppose I could just go with Reef Crystals and Vita-Chem multiple vitamin, and cut out the Iodide, Strontium, Essential Elements, Selcon, and Vitamin C although I figure the more vitamins, essential elements, and nutrients I can soak into food and thus the fish and into my filter feeders the better for them.

I stopped using the Essential Elements, Iodide and Strontium at one time and decided to restart their use.

I figure dosing with these products and the vitamins if used properly it cannot hurt and therefore can only help in a "closed system."

Also, I am one of those persons who "doses" a bacteria additive every water change although it may not be absolutely necessary.

I read somewhere about an article coming up about dosing with nitrate reducers, biological products, etc. as a wave of the future with more and more Reef Keepers going in that direction?

[Finsky]

I forgot to mention I have a plug and play German made Aqua-Medic Turboflotor Multi-1000 protein skimmer hanging off the back of my five foot 120 gallon Reef Tank with 150 lbs or live rock

Each day it typically fractions out one inch of "black" liquid into the collection cup. I empty the collection cup everyday if possible to keep the efficiency at the highest level.

This skimmer is rated for up to a 250 gallon tank.

I also have two Rena XP4 Canister filters with the top basket of their four baskets fillled with four 10 oz bags of Chemi-Pure and a bag of six tablespoons of Doctors Foster and Smith Phospure.

These are each rated for up to a 265 gallon tank.

I do not know how much vitamins and essential elements these filters remove.

[Finsky]

Fed silversides and razor clam to five bubble tip anemones ranging in age from one two year old red rose, one one year old red rose, and three green bubble tips ranging in age from three to six months.

Pair of Yellow Hawaiian Leaf fish 3 1/2" to 3 3/4" eating live ghost shrimp acquired from Drs. Foster and Smith Diver's Den on August 27, 2010.

Tonight cut up and thawed pieces of silverside and raw razor clam. I also thawed some frozen krill.

I fed a large piece of krill to my 2 1/2" Redfin Waspfish which is his favorite. I then approached the larger of the two leaf fish with a fair sized piece of frozen krill on the end of a wooden feeding stick and he snapped it right off the end!!!!

I then went to the other leaf fish and he took a snap at another piece of krill I put on the stick only by this time the Purple Tang and Powder Blue Tang barged in and snapped at the krill at the same time.

I satiated the tangs and went back to the second leaf fish with a piece of krill tickling her nose for ten minutes with no feeding reponse.

One down and one to go.

The Fu Manchu ate silversides, the Maroon and Cream Wartsking Angler had silverside, the Orange Indonesian Angler was not hungry as last feeding he snapped a silverside head off the feeding stick.

Now I have my two anglers, one lion fish, one waspfish, and one leaf fish eating frozen food.

I decided to let the leaf fish go hungry for a week after a multiple day feeding spree a week ago.

This feeding at 8:00 pm was preceded by two hour earlier feeding of the angels, tangs, clowns, damsels with Vita-Chem and Vitamin C soaked freeze dried mysis and brine shrimp and cut up sea weed.

Wednesday evening I fed the tank with Kent Marine Microvert and Kent Marine Photoplex along with Selcon. I also dosed the tank with Kent Marine Iodide and Strontium and Molybdenum. I came home today with all anemones wide and swaying in the moderate current provided by two Hydor 8 propeller pumps arranged in the upper front ends of the tank. I turn off the protein skimmer for an hour or two when feeding liquid food and vitamin soaked food and also turn off the Hydor 8's for 15 minutes when feeding the Omnivores and Herbivores.

After this I turn the pumps back on and what little is left blows around to get stuck in the anemones, flowerpot corals, fish eating on the fly, and crabs, sea stars, etc.

[sneakerpimp]

In my opinion dosing minerals is just creating a risky balancing act. And doing this will not benefit fish in any significant way, if at all. Adding supplements like garlic, amino acids and vitamins seems to be a waste of time and money. Take some of the money you saved on snake oil and buy a more expensive high quality pellet food like New Life spectrum.

The most you gain from these additives is the satisfaction of administering the snake oil to your animals.

[Paul B]

Adding supplements like garlic, amino acids and vitamins seems to be a waste of time and money.

This is true. And none of it will stick to wet or frozen food.

[reefworldaq]

that's right, thats why if want use selcon or vit or garlic use it pellet or flake.
Can't be use to frozen or wet brine shrimp. if you want use a silverside use it shrink to inject selcon to inside the body of silverside.

[chechilo1051972]

listen guys i have a 35 gallon long ihave 4 fish 1 red devil i convict and 2 jack dempseys
i rinsed my cartridge out but it seems my red devil looks like he's peeling white a little he was fine sunday he's not dying ithe tempature is 78 and the water is clear.

[REEF-n-Chicago]

Curious about the various kinds of seaweed/NORI

I live in Los Angeles and have looked high and low for anything other than the reg "green"
nori.

Anyone find red ,brown, or other kinds of algaes at an asian market or elsewhere?

[REEF-n-Chicago]

Besides the brand names of course!

Looking for bulk packages....

BTW, great sticky. The OP and the guy a few pages in. Seems to me most people would do much better for there fish by reading either or both!

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by chechilo1051972

listen guys i have a 35 gallon long ihave 4 fish 1 red devil i convict and 2 jack dempseys
i rinsed my cartridge out but it seems my red devil looks like he's peeling white a little he was fine sunday he's not dying ithe tempature is 78 and the water is clear.

If you rinse out the cartridge make sure you use water from the tank or you destroy the bacteria bed in the filter. You might also want to add some
Seachem Stabilizer when you do this(bacteria)

[Finsky]

Green Marine Algae
Optimal food source for all species of marine Tangs, Angels, Wrasses, Damsels, and some Butterflyfish.
Ingredients: 100% Natural Dried Seaweeds (marine macroalgae).
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein
33.9% min.
Crude Fat
3.2% min.
Crude Fiber
2.5% max.
Moisture
6.8% max.

Brown Marine Algae
Optimal food source for all species of marine Tangs, Angels, Wrasses, Damsels, and some Butterflyfish.
Ingredients: 100% Natural Dried Seaweeds (marine macroalgae).
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein
31.6% min.
Crude Fat
2.2% min.
Crude Fiber
6.5% max.
Moisture
6.8% max.

Red Marine Algae
Optimal food source and color enhancer for Damselfish, small Angelfish, Sponge Feeders, and other marine fish with softer mouth parts.
Ingredients: 100% Natural Dried Seaweeds (marine macroalgae).
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein
33.2% min.
Crude Fat
2.2% min.
Crude Fiber
4.5% max.
Moisture
9.6% max.

Green 100 ct, CD-10976
$29.99

I have a 100 count from San Francisco Bay which is human edible. I taked a few 10"x10" sheets and cut them into bite size pieces with scissors as well as the red algae above from Ocean Nurtition. I have them in left over freeze dried mysis shrimp or brine shrimp containers.

I sprinkle them in a measuring cup along with freeze dried mysis, brine, bloodworms, and Ocean Nutrition pellets. I them soak them in Vita-Chem, Selcon, and Kent Marine C. for fifteen minutes to half an hour with a bit of aquarium water added. My three yellow Hawaiian tangs and other fish like these nutrition packed meals. Of course I start out with a sprinkling of Ocean Nutrition Formula One Flakes and Ocean Nutrition Two Flakes to wet their appetite.

My three Yellow Hawaiian Tangs are in imaculate condition with this Monday, Wednesday, Friday feedings.

I never thought seaweed clips with large pieces of algae were a very efficient feeding method as the seaweed sheets get pulled apart and sucked into filter and circulation pump intakes.

================================

In my second story loft/bedroom, this year I had a new 65 gallon tank with stand delivered up 13 flights of steps. My Amazon tank I has two Hagen 70 Aquaclear Powerfilters with two Hydor Koralia Evolution 750 propeller pumps(one on each upper front end facing the back corner). The 125 gallon mixed reef tank is down stairs in the living room thank heavens.

I also performed a weekly 10-15% weekly water change this past weekend and I rinsed the sponges, 10 oz chem-pures, and course filter bags with Eheim Efisubstrate Pro pea sized sintered glass biomedia in the siphoned out tank water. I would never rinse out my filter media in tap water. No way, no how. I also rinse out all the media in my two Rena XP4 canisters on the 125 mixed reef tank in three five gallon buckets of siphoned tank water. Must keep that good bacteria. Stability helped me with Amquel Plus on a three day power outage during winter time three years ago with batter air pumps and hot water changes, I did not lose one saltwater fish and the only thing lost was a small long tentacled anemone. Recently I have been using Drs Foster and Smith colonize for bacteria.

I kept all the good bacteria and got a real clean tank with two happy discus, two happy green severum, two happy firemouths, and two happy red blood parrots along with a some happy cori cats and happy schools of black skirt tetras and serpae tetras along with some immigrant clown loaches in my "Amazon" tank.

[chechilo1051972]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

If you rinse out the cartridge make sure you use water from the tank or you destroy the bacteria bed in the filter. You might also want to add some
Seachem Stabilizer when you do this(bacteria)

thanks for the heads up good to know. actally he looks like he is eating as well. could i buy this Seachem Stabilizer at petco or any other fish store. so far so good

[Finsky]

I have restocked my tank after a crash last August in my five year old tank.

I have two Rena XP4 canisters, two Hydor 8's, and one AquaMedic turboflotor multi-1000 protein skimmer.

The Hydor's and the protein skimmer were on a powerstrip and I forgot to turn it back on after feeding one evening. The two canisters were running the entire time and in the morning I had lost most of my fish and the concensus was oxygen deprivation.

I have now restocked with only reef safe fish and alot of corals I could not keep with angels. I do have a pair of yellow hawaiian tangs, two Pacific Blue Tangs, and one Powder Blue tang which are doing quite well with my Monday, Wednesday, Friday feeding. I turn off the canisters and unplug the protein skimmer and leave the Hydor 8's on while I feed the fish. Ocean Nutrition one and two flakes first. The I put cut up seaweed/freeze dried mysis/brine/bloodworms in a measuring cup and soak in Vita-Chem, Selcon, Kent Marine-C along with a bit of aquarium water. I then pour this in after the flakes are gone and wait until they eat all of this vitamin soaked food. I then turn the canisters back on when the food disappears only leaving the skimmer unplugged.

I add Kent Marine Phytoplex, Chromoplex, Zooplex, and Microvert.

I just had my 21 month old red rose bubble tip anmone divide into two 6 inch anemones form one 12 inch red rose bubble tip anemone. I also have a four and a half year pair of Tomato clowns laying eggs every week to two weeks.

The larger fish I entered last and they included two medium yellow hawaiian tangs three months ago. A five inch Powder Blue and a 3 1/2" and 5 1/2" Blue Tang were added a week ago. So far everyone is chowing down and maintaining quite the civility.

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by Finsky

I have restocked my tank after a crash last August in my five year old tank.

I have two Rena XP4 canisters, two Hydor 8's, and one AquaMedic turboflotor multi-1000 protein skimmer.

The Hydor's and the protein skimmer were on a powerstrip and I forgot to turn it back on after feeding one evening. The two canisters were running the entire time and in the morning I had lost most of my fish and the concensus was oxygen deprivation.

I have now restocked with only reef safe fish and alot of corals I could not keep with angels. I do have a pair of yellow hawaiian tangs, two Pacific Blue Tangs, and one Powder Blue tang which are doing quite well with my Monday, Wednesday, Friday feeding. I turn off the canisters and unplug the protein skimmer and leave the Hydor 8's on while I feed the fish. Ocean Nutrition one and two flakes first. The I put cut up seaweed/freeze dried mysis/brine/bloodworms in a measuring cup and soak in Vita-Chem, Selcon, Kent Marine-C along with a bit of aquarium water. I then pour this in after the flakes are gone and wait until they eat all of this vitamin soaked food. I then turn the canisters back on when the food disappears only leaving the skimmer unplugged.

I add Kent Marine Phytoplex, Chromoplex, Zooplex, and Microvert.

I just had my 21 month old red rose bubble tip anmone divide into two 6 inch anemones form one 12 inch red rose bubble tip anemone. I also have a four and a half year pair of Tomato clowns laying eggs every week to two weeks.

The larger fish I entered last and they included two medium yellow hawaiian tangs three months ago. A five inch Powder Blue and a 3 1/2" and 5 1/2" Blue Tang were added a week ago. So far everyone is chowing down and maintaining quite the civility.

With all that feeding have you considered carbon dosing

[Finsky]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

With all that feeding have you considered carbon dosing

I have been dosing Seachem Reef Carbonate and it has helped level out my pH 8.0-8.4 since I started using it as Seachem thought I might have more bi-carbonate alkalinity than carbonate alkalinity.

I have to say they were right.

I am going to start dosing Tropic Science Marine-Max after each weekly water change when it arrives on Friday from Drs Foster and Smith.

Back to carbon dosing. I would not want to try anything which might jepardize our Doree and her younger sister Doreena and their friends?