Microfood culture: phytoplanktons, Rotifers, ciliates, Artemia, and copepods - Page 5

GreshamH · 04/20/2006, 10:59 AM

It's an "L" type. "s" and "ss" are B. rotundiformis.

rutledgek · 04/20/2006, 11:35 AM

So I would want a different type for raising them to feed to Clown larvae.

NicoleC · 04/20/2006, 12:14 PM

B. plicatilus is perfect for clownfish.

rutledgek · 04/20/2006, 12:22 PM

Thanks for you help. What species of fish would the s and ss type be used for.

NicoleC · 04/20/2006, 12:29 PM

Anything with very small fry, like small gobies. The B. rotundiformis is a bit smaller than B. plicatilus.

rutledgek · 04/20/2006, 12:32 PM

Thanks for the help. I just wanted to make sure before I bought the wrong live food.

rutledgek · 04/22/2006, 03:46 PM

One last question. Does anyone know the size of rotifer cysts are?

rutledgek · 05/24/2006, 02:23 PM

Is there anyone with a calanoid culture that they can send me. I am looking to start a culture of these for dwarf seahorses.

spawner · 05/24/2006, 05:01 PM

Email Erik at Algagen: eriks@algagen.com

Do you have a good cutlure of microalgae? You'll need at least Iso; but would do better with a diatom as well. Nanno won't work.

rutledgek · 05/25/2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spawner
Email Erik at Algagen: eriks@algagen.com

Do you have a good cutlure of microalgae? You'll need at least Iso; but would do better with a diatom as well. Nanno won't work.

Nanno is suggested in the copepod culturing article at the beginning of this thread.

spawner · 05/25/2006, 12:57 PM

Nanno will not work for calanoid copepods, the seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about the different types of copepods and their food requirements.

Teremei · 06/23/2006, 11:15 AM

I just got myself a nice fancy stand mounted hatchery with drain on the bottom. I was so excited, I started my first culture. They are just starting to hatch now. If I read that guide right, I shouldn't even worry about feeding them for another 8 hours, because their mouth and anus aren't fully developed. Is this correct?

This is baby brine by the way. .

spk · 06/25/2006, 03:49 AM

Yes that is correct. The mouth and anus develop later. If you a feeding to fry, feed just after hatch.

Steve

mwp · 07/14/2006, 01:25 AM

There's probably stuff like this already in the thread, but hey, maybe not? Below are some pix and vids I shot with the QX5 for the Mandarin Thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...61#post7740361) - in a nutshell, I sampled 1 L-Strain Rotifer Culture and 1 SS-Strain Rotifer Culture. Seived both through 53 micron and seived the flow-through in a secondary 10 micron seive. It's really worth noting the amount of TINY life prospering in the L-Strain Culture; meanwhile the SS-Strain culture had virtually NOTHING other than rotifers....not even worth showing the pics and vids of what was collected via the 10 micron from the SS-Sample...again, literally NOTHING.

One other note, I chilled the samplings in the freezer for a minute or two to SLOW these tiny creatures WAY DOWN...normally they're almost a blur under the microscope, especially at 200X.

Videos are .avi; roughly 1 to 2.5 mb a shot.

L-Strain Rotifers at 60X - numerical measurments are 1 MM

Video - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...0X_chilled.avi

SS-Strain Rotifers at 60X - numerical measurments are 1 MM

Video - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...0X_chilled.avi

L-Strain Rotifers at 200X - numerical measurements are 200 um (microns, micrometers etc..)

Video -
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...0X_chilled.avi

SS-Strain Rotifers at 200X - numerical measurements are 200 um (microns, micrometers etc..)

Video - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...0X_chilled.avi

L-Strain Culture, smaller than 53 microns but larger than 10 @ 60X:

Video - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...0X_chilled.avi

FWIW,

Matt

jake levi · 07/20/2006, 08:07 AM

Frank do you know what they were culturing and feeding the Flame Angel larvae in Hawai ?

I am told they were half the size of rotifers. Personal communications with Martin Moe said his efforts were stalled out not having anything smaller then rotifers the first several days. He even spent time trolling with a plankton net trying to get enough small plankton to feed. But they starved out.

Any suggestions ?

BTW, a simple culture system I ran across at Scripps used f gal water jugs with bottoms removed, taps siliconed in the necks with airstones, and mounted in rack to make arrays, great for phytoplnakton, rotifers and artemia. You can grow a lot in this system. MUST keep rotifers from contaminating the phyto !

jake

GreshamH · 07/20/2006, 10:46 AM

If you do a search on RC, that information has been posted about the flames.

Luis A M · 07/20/2006, 11:45 AM

Hi Jake,youÂ´re the same olÂ´Jake of BR list?.

Yes,the species of pods Baensch (and other Hawaiians) used were posted,published lots of times.One of his articles in FAMA gives names and pics.
I always felt Martin deserved to be the first to crack pigmies.He worked a lot with cherubs in BR days and he was using pods.And he knows how to use them,how you think he raised large angels in the 70Â´s?.

jake levi · 07/20/2006, 02:11 PM

Hi Luis
yup, same ol same ol, but been out of the country awhile,

just getting re-setup,

I am sure Martin would have been first but it conflicted with getting his book finished and to the printer so he couldnt put the time into them that he wanted to,

do you know which back issue of FAMA ? I am ordering some anyhow. I'll see what I can find here.

how are your projects doing ?

jake

Luis A M · 07/21/2006, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jake levi
Hi Luis
yup, same ol same ol, but been out of the country awhile,

just getting re-setup,

I am sure Martin would have been first but it conflicted with getting his book finished and to the printer so he couldnt put the time into them that he wanted to,

do you know which back issue of FAMA ? I am ordering some anyhow. I'll see what I can find here.

how are your projects doing ?

jake

Good to have you back,Jake,you enjoyed diving the Red Sea?
Doing fine,thanks, always working new projects

FAMA 25(12):4-12 and especially 26(7):156-162

polypboy · 08/03/2006, 08:02 AM

Haven't ever done it so can't really comment but looks like copepod culture wouldn't be too much of a nightmare. How would one go about separating nauplii from other stages? Would you just have to maintain a very large culture and then strain through suitably sized media to get suffient numbers of sufficiently small nauplii?

Luis A M · 08/03/2006, 08:49 AM

ThatÂ´s right.YouÂ´ll need lots of phyto,though.

polypboy · 08/03/2006, 10:00 AM

Thanks. How big a culture do you think you'd need to provide a single hatch of centropye larvae with copepod nauplii through to ful size pods or rotifers? I guess this would depend largely on the culture density but are we talking 10 gallon tank or bathtub?

GreshamH · 08/03/2006, 10:21 AM

Depends on what copepods we're talking about. The ones I have the most experience with (Tigriopus californicus) would require quite a few 10g tanks, some 55ul, 100ul and 250-400ul screens. Do read up on the nutritional requirements of the particular copepod species your dealing with though, somes growth is inhibited by certain phytoplanktons.

spawner · 08/03/2006, 12:25 PM

Those aren't real copepods Gresham, You can't many culture any fish on harpacs. They are not worth much in regards to larval feeds, some will even eat your larvae.

Calanoids are very different, require much stricter culture protocols and food. You'd need a 20L or so of top quaility algae a day to maintain a good calanoid culture; and that is at small scales.

GreshamH · 08/06/2006, 11:16 AM

I can't many culture? At small scales? Tired and overworked?

So your saying herpacs are not real copepods? Do they know this?

Understood that not many will eat the hairy herpacs, but the system I use to grow them, was bastardized from a calanoid set-up, with a few modifications (screen sizes/vertical walls of window screen/feed)

Do you not distpute that certain algaes have shown to inhibit growth, even act as a prophylactic?

04/20/2006, 10:59 AM	#101
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	It's an "L" type. "s" and "ss" are B. rotundiformis. __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

04/20/2006, 11:35 AM	#102
rutledgek Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 395	So I would want a different type for raising them to feed to Clown larvae. __________________ WARNING: This product has been found hazardous to morons in laboratory tests. Current Tank Info: 29 gallon, 15g sump, Mag 9.5 return, 250W 14K MH, 65W Actinic PC.

04/20/2006, 12:14 PM	#103
NicoleC Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, AL Posts: 8,875	B. plicatilus is perfect for clownfish. __________________ Don't count your gobies before they've metamorphasized. Current Tank Info: 40g Indo-Pacific lagoon with tank bred livestock

04/20/2006, 12:22 PM	#104
rutledgek Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 395	Thanks for you help. What species of fish would the s and ss type be used for. __________________ WARNING: This product has been found hazardous to morons in laboratory tests. Current Tank Info: 29 gallon, 15g sump, Mag 9.5 return, 250W 14K MH, 65W Actinic PC.

04/20/2006, 12:29 PM	#105
NicoleC Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, AL Posts: 8,875	Anything with very small fry, like small gobies. The B. rotundiformis is a bit smaller than B. plicatilus. __________________ Don't count your gobies before they've metamorphasized. Current Tank Info: 40g Indo-Pacific lagoon with tank bred livestock

04/20/2006, 12:32 PM	#106
rutledgek Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 395	Thanks for the help. I just wanted to make sure before I bought the wrong live food. __________________ WARNING: This product has been found hazardous to morons in laboratory tests. Current Tank Info: 29 gallon, 15g sump, Mag 9.5 return, 250W 14K MH, 65W Actinic PC.

04/22/2006, 03:46 PM	#107
rutledgek Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 395	One last question. Does anyone know the size of rotifer cysts are? __________________ WARNING: This product has been found hazardous to morons in laboratory tests. Current Tank Info: 29 gallon, 15g sump, Mag 9.5 return, 250W 14K MH, 65W Actinic PC.

05/24/2006, 02:23 PM	#108
rutledgek Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 395	Is there anyone with a calanoid culture that they can send me. I am looking to start a culture of these for dwarf seahorses. __________________ WARNING: This product has been found hazardous to morons in laboratory tests. Current Tank Info: 29 gallon, 15g sump, Mag 9.5 return, 250W 14K MH, 65W Actinic PC.

05/24/2006, 05:01 PM	#109
spawner Reefer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: FL EAST COAST Posts: 517	Email Erik at Algagen: eriks@algagen.com Do you have a good cutlure of microalgae? You'll need at least Iso; but would do better with a diatom as well. Nanno won't work. __________________ Andy "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" Albert Einstein

05/25/2006, 12:57 PM	#111
spawner Reefer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: FL EAST COAST Posts: 517	Nanno will not work for calanoid copepods, the seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about the different types of copepods and their food requirements. __________________ Andy "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" Albert Einstein

06/23/2006, 11:15 AM	#112
Teremei Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Chicago (one hour west) Posts: 2,751	I just got myself a nice fancy stand mounted hatchery with drain on the bottom. I was so excited, I started my first culture. They are just starting to hatch now. If I read that guide right, I shouldn't even worry about feeding them for another 8 hours, because their mouth and anus aren't fully developed. Is this correct? This is baby brine by the way. .

06/25/2006, 03:49 AM	#113
spk Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wokingham, United Kingdom Posts: 499	Yes that is correct. The mouth and anus develop later. If you a feeding to fry, feed just after hatch. Steve

07/14/2006, 01:25 AM	#114
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	There's probably stuff like this already in the thread, but hey, maybe not? Below are some pix and vids I shot with the QX5 for the Mandarin Thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...61#post7740361) - in a nutshell, I sampled 1 L-Strain Rotifer Culture and 1 SS-Strain Rotifer Culture. Seived both through 53 micron and seived the flow-through in a secondary 10 micron seive. It's really worth noting the amount of TINY life prospering in the L-Strain Culture; meanwhile the SS-Strain culture had virtually NOTHING other than rotifers....not even worth showing the pics and vids of what was collected via the 10 micron from the SS-Sample...again, literally NOTHING. One other note, I chilled the samplings in the freezer for a minute or two to SLOW these tiny creatures WAY DOWN...normally they're almost a blur under the microscope, especially at 200X. Videos are .avi; roughly 1 to 2.5 mb a shot. L-Strain Rotifers at 60X - numerical measurments are 1 MM Video - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...0X_chilled.avi SS-Strain Rotifers at 60X - numerical measurments are 1 MM Video - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...0X_chilled.avi L-Strain Rotifers at 200X - numerical measurements are 200 um (microns, micrometers etc..) Video - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...0X_chilled.avi SS-Strain Rotifers at 200X - numerical measurements are 200 um (microns, micrometers etc..) Video - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...0X_chilled.avi L-Strain Culture, smaller than 53 microns but larger than 10 @ 60X: Video - http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...0X_chilled.avi FWIW, Matt

07/20/2006, 08:07 AM	#115
jake levi Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Central Michigan Posts: 543	Frank do you know what they were culturing and feeding the Flame Angel larvae in Hawai ? I am told they were half the size of rotifers. Personal communications with Martin Moe said his efforts were stalled out not having anything smaller then rotifers the first several days. He even spent time trolling with a plankton net trying to get enough small plankton to feed. But they starved out. Any suggestions ? BTW, a simple culture system I ran across at Scripps used f gal water jugs with bottoms removed, taps siliconed in the necks with airstones, and mounted in rack to make arrays, great for phytoplnakton, rotifers and artemia. You can grow a lot in this system. MUST keep rotifers from contaminating the phyto ! jake __________________ Jake We are all in this together Current Tank Info: reef tanks oriented towards pairs of reef fish

07/20/2006, 10:46 AM	#116
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	If you do a search on RC, that information has been posted about the flames. __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

07/20/2006, 11:45 AM	#117
Luis A M Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina Posts: 1,689	Hi Jake,youÂ´re the same olÂ´Jake of BR list?. Yes,the species of pods Baensch (and other Hawaiians) used were posted,published lots of times.One of his articles in FAMA gives names and pics. I always felt Martin deserved to be the first to crack pigmies.He worked a lot with cherubs in BR days and he was using pods.And he knows how to use them,how you think he raised large angels in the 70Â´s?. __________________ Luis A M Current Tank Info: I keep about 40 tanks,for breeding and larval raising.Most are 10 gallons.

07/20/2006, 02:11 PM	#118
jake levi Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Central Michigan Posts: 543	laval food for centropyge Hi Luis yup, same ol same ol, but been out of the country awhile, just getting re-setup, I am sure Martin would have been first but it conflicted with getting his book finished and to the printer so he couldnt put the time into them that he wanted to, do you know which back issue of FAMA ? I am ordering some anyhow. I'll see what I can find here. how are your projects doing ? jake __________________ Jake We are all in this together Current Tank Info: reef tanks oriented towards pairs of reef fish

08/03/2006, 08:02 AM	#120
polypboy Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 31	Haven't ever done it so can't really comment but looks like copepod culture wouldn't be too much of a nightmare. How would one go about separating nauplii from other stages? Would you just have to maintain a very large culture and then strain through suitably sized media to get suffient numbers of sufficiently small nauplii?

08/03/2006, 08:49 AM	#121
Luis A M Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina Posts: 1,689	ThatÂ´s right.YouÂ´ll need lots of phyto,though. __________________ Luis A M Current Tank Info: I keep about 40 tanks,for breeding and larval raising.Most are 10 gallons.

08/03/2006, 10:00 AM	#122
polypboy Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 31	Thanks. How big a culture do you think you'd need to provide a single hatch of centropye larvae with copepod nauplii through to ful size pods or rotifers? I guess this would depend largely on the culture density but are we talking 10 gallon tank or bathtub?

08/03/2006, 10:21 AM	#123
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	Depends on what copepods we're talking about. The ones I have the most experience with (Tigriopus californicus) would require quite a few 10g tanks, some 55ul, 100ul and 250-400ul screens. Do read up on the nutritional requirements of the particular copepod species your dealing with though, somes growth is inhibited by certain phytoplanktons. __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

08/03/2006, 12:25 PM	#124
spawner Reefer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: FL EAST COAST Posts: 517	Those aren't real copepods Gresham, You can't many culture any fish on harpacs. They are not worth much in regards to larval feeds, some will even eat your larvae. Calanoids are very different, require much stricter culture protocols and food. You'd need a 20L or so of top quaility algae a day to maintain a good calanoid culture; and that is at small scales. __________________ Andy "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" Albert Einstein

08/06/2006, 11:16 AM	#125
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	I can't many culture? At small scales? Tired and overworked? So your saying herpacs are not real copepods? Do they know this? Understood that not many will eat the hairy herpacs, but the system I use to grow them, was bastardized from a calanoid set-up, with a few modifications (screen sizes/vertical walls of window screen/feed) Do you not distpute that certain algaes have shown to inhibit growth, even act as a prophylactic? __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time