starphire tank crack . stop laminated glass crack HELP - Page 5

BeanAnimal · 01/28/2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetblacksdart

I sell the things to do automotive glass repair. Cracks cannot let me repeat cannot be repaired on laminated glass. I know there is a nation wide company that claims if it's smaller than a dollar bill they can fix it. Not true. The repairs are for bullseyes in your windshield and the proper method involves drilling it out to remove any small cracks.
I wish you the best of luck!

I hate to start a tangent argument, but respectfully that is simply not true. There is no way that one can drill out "the cracks" of even the most modest bullseye crack with any reasonable size bit. visible and micro (not visible with the naked eye) cracks radiate from the bullseye. The resin helps to stabilize the movement (caused by vibration and thermal cycling) of the area and thus helps prevent the cracks from growing.

Lets not get stuck on the word "repair". If you can force resin into a crack, it creates a bond where there was not one and the crack can be prevented from growing or spreading.

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 03:58 PM

yes a crack can be stopped from spreading.. i have made enough calls to understand how the windshield guys do it. drilling a hole right before the end of the crack stops it.. then they fill in with resin.. but this is a tank with pressure that windshields do not have. having said that some of the guys say that tank is still strong.. if it is a crack it needs to be stopped.. of course in the back of my mind this is wish full thinking.

i am keeping a close eye on the crack if that is what it is.. i say this because some glass guys have told me to look through the glass from the side and try and see it.. i cannot.. i have spoken to mitch who built the tank.. he has suggested or has told me that the black rim on the tank does not do anything strength wise so i am going to cut a little of the rim trim off the top to see from the top down and see what this is..

here are some new pics .. i used a magnifying glass so the pics look pretty good.. you can see i believe the laminate being pulled. notice the spike like edges.. kinda like the barbs on fishing hook..

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...t=P1300504.jpg

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 03:58 PM

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 03:59 PM

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 03:59 PM

notice the spikes

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 04:00 PM

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 04:01 PM

close up of the tip.. will see in couple of days what it looks like

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 04:01 PM

last one for the day..

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 06:23 PM

here is pic after i cut open the top rim..you can see i razor bladed eteched into the trim two lines on the top of the photo you see them run top to bottom. in between these lines i am looking for signs of a crack on either piece of glass. in the middle you will see a line this is the laminate.

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 06:26 PM

ok in the above pic you cant see the two pieces of glass and laminte .. i will post a closer view same angle.. i am standing in in front of the tank taking shots down the top of the glass... so the tank is running from the left to the right in the pics. the white in the center is the lamanite.. the blue above and below is the glass pieces.

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 06:27 PM

close up of the laminate. notice the little bubble like areas in the lamanite in the center of the pic.. i think this may be the cause of the problem..

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 06:29 PM

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 06:32 PM

here is pic from inside tank of the center brace where it meets the inside front pane of glass notice the silcone is not attached that well to the front.. need to fix this..perhaps is what is causing the issue..

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 06:34 PM

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 06:35 PM

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 06:39 PM

so do we think it is laminate or crack.. will silicone to the center brace or re silcone the center brace help?

thanks all

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 08:02 PM

just opened up rim by the center brace... looks like some crude build up there.. will definitely have to do some thing to re silicone.. argggg..

iamwrasseman · 01/30/2010, 08:55 PM

have you had any one professional come over to look at it ? it seems as though this has been ongoing and i would have certainly tried to at least find out what the situation was much more quickly as the tank breaking is very serious .if it was a small one i wouldnt even bat an eyelash but this is much larger so why such a delay on getting a professional to look at it ?

Chicago · 01/30/2010, 10:57 PM

Had Some glass guys look at it. They suggested trying to use a glass adhesive and see if it would travel down the crack if it was one. Now not sure it is a crack. I have sent these new pics to tje tank buder on Canada to see what he says. He wa tje ont who said watch it for a couple of weeks. Still looking for a local tank builder to look at it.

iamwrasseman · 01/31/2010, 09:42 AM

the pictures are difficult to get a good idea of whats going on but they do look as though the glass is intact and the laminent is impared .except for the astetics i think your okay but im also scared because there is always a reason for breakage even if its that laminent you have to wonder what moved ,why it moved and what can happen because of the movement .that being said i am starting to lean in the direction of giving it more time and see what happens in the next few days ,weeks ,months .it would be great to mark exactly where it is so you can see if it starts moving again in the slightest amount .

Chicago · 01/31/2010, 09:52 AM

Ok. Removing more trim by the cetner brace. I think when cleaning the tank the razor blade got under the silicon and started to allow silicone to depert from the center of the top of the front glass. Looks like not attached 100 percent hard to describe. So plan is now to watch. Find a way to reduce the top water level a couple of inches. Find local glass guy to reattach the center brace. Needs to be fixed. Now issue will be all water out to do repair or not. I will find something to brace or clamp.

Chicago · 01/31/2010, 10:43 PM

Little update. The silcone ge 1200 is not holding the center brace to the top of the outside pane fro t of tank. I can see a pull it's weird if u look at the center brace edge where it attaches to the front two pieces it looks like it an 1/8 of inch short. Like it only covers half of the top edge of the front pane. I assumed imoved out and pulled away. But here us strange thing. I can see that the silicone attached to the top of the inner pane looks good. Will make some type of temp support. Large clamps to extend over the tank. And re silicone the supports.

hoffy02 · 02/01/2010, 08:03 AM

I still say not a crack but laminate damage/ existing flaw... hope it works out for you..

Chicago · 02/01/2010, 08:45 AM

yepp.. just noticed need to repair the other brace.. this should be a warning for all.. i really think this started because the water level got high and coralin algea started to effect the silicone.. and got some water salt whatever damage on the silicone seal and started to work over time at the joint of the center brace.. do not remove center braces is confirmed in my mind.. not that i did but this shows me how damage can start.. my search for a good glass guy in Chicago will go full steam ahead today.. ps i found a thread where some one was looking up info on silicone and ge rep said that this stuff does loss strength over time when under water... crazy.. seven years only.. or to much pressure.. along with algea salt creep ect.. will post updates if you guys want

Chicago · 02/04/2010, 09:37 PM

ok./. long day.. took off two braces after i piped clamp the tank.. no explosion.. pipe clamps still on. i removed all the black trim.. and removed two cross braces. the center one was not holding at all on the front and most likely was the cause of the issue.. anyways.. nice and clean now.. then installed a long brace across the cross braces and perimiter braces.. did this for the front and the back.. looks good.. lets see if it holds..

a question on side.. is 1/16 silicone the right size to try for.. also.. do we use clamps to hold in place or does this put to much pressure on the silicone so when you remove the clamps the silicone pulls apart..

will post pics when i get a chance...

by the way.. really looks like a delamination.. not a crack.. now we hope it stops..

01/30/2010, 03:58 PM	#102
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	yes a crack can be stopped from spreading.. i have made enough calls to understand how the windshield guys do it. drilling a hole right before the end of the crack stops it.. then they fill in with resin.. but this is a tank with pressure that windshields do not have. having said that some of the guys say that tank is still strong.. if it is a crack it needs to be stopped.. of course in the back of my mind this is wish full thinking. i am keeping a close eye on the crack if that is what it is.. i say this because some glass guys have told me to look through the glass from the side and try and see it.. i cannot.. i have spoken to mitch who built the tank.. he has suggested or has told me that the black rim on the tank does not do anything strength wise so i am going to cut a little of the rim trim off the top to see from the top down and see what this is.. here are some new pics .. i used a magnifying glass so the pics look pretty good.. you can see i believe the laminate being pulled. notice the spike like edges.. kinda like the barbs on fishing hook.. http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...t=P1300504.jpg __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 03:58 PM	#103
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	__________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 03:59 PM	#104
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	__________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 03:59 PM	#105
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	notice the spikes __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 04:00 PM	#106
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	__________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 04:01 PM	#107
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	close up of the tip.. will see in couple of days what it looks like __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 04:01 PM	#108
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	last one for the day.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 06:23 PM	#109
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	here is pic after i cut open the top rim..you can see i razor bladed eteched into the trim two lines on the top of the photo you see them run top to bottom. in between these lines i am looking for signs of a crack on either piece of glass. in the middle you will see a line this is the laminate. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 06:26 PM	#110
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	ok in the above pic you cant see the two pieces of glass and laminte .. i will post a closer view same angle.. i am standing in in front of the tank taking shots down the top of the glass... so the tank is running from the left to the right in the pics. the white in the center is the lamanite.. the blue above and below is the glass pieces. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 06:27 PM	#111
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	close up of the laminate. notice the little bubble like areas in the lamanite in the center of the pic.. i think this may be the cause of the problem.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 06:29 PM	#112
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	__________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 06:32 PM	#113
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	here is pic from inside tank of the center brace where it meets the inside front pane of glass notice the silcone is not attached that well to the front.. need to fix this..perhaps is what is causing the issue.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 06:34 PM	#114
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	__________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 06:35 PM	#115
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	__________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 06:39 PM	#116
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	so do we think it is laminate or crack.. will silicone to the center brace or re silcone the center brace help? thanks all __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 08:02 PM	#117
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	just opened up rim by the center brace... looks like some crude build up there.. will definitely have to do some thing to re silicone.. argggg.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/30/2010, 08:55 PM	#118
iamwrasseman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: syracuse Posts: 7,003	have you had any one professional come over to look at it ? it seems as though this has been ongoing and i would have certainly tried to at least find out what the situation was much more quickly as the tank breaking is very serious .if it was a small one i wouldnt even bat an eyelash but this is much larger so why such a delay on getting a professional to look at it ? __________________ This hobby certainly can put you in some weird positions ! Dave Current Tank Info: 40 freshwater,25saltwater 2000 gallons ,enough tanks for an army ?

01/30/2010, 10:57 PM	#119
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	Had Some glass guys look at it. They suggested trying to use a glass adhesive and see if it would travel down the crack if it was one. Now not sure it is a crack. I have sent these new pics to tje tank buder on Canada to see what he says. He wa tje ont who said watch it for a couple of weeks. Still looking for a local tank builder to look at it. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/31/2010, 09:42 AM	#120
iamwrasseman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: syracuse Posts: 7,003	the pictures are difficult to get a good idea of whats going on but they do look as though the glass is intact and the laminent is impared .except for the astetics i think your okay but im also scared because there is always a reason for breakage even if its that laminent you have to wonder what moved ,why it moved and what can happen because of the movement .that being said i am starting to lean in the direction of giving it more time and see what happens in the next few days ,weeks ,months .it would be great to mark exactly where it is so you can see if it starts moving again in the slightest amount . __________________ This hobby certainly can put you in some weird positions ! Dave Current Tank Info: 40 freshwater,25saltwater 2000 gallons ,enough tanks for an army ?

01/31/2010, 09:52 AM	#121
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	Ok. Removing more trim by the cetner brace. I think when cleaning the tank the razor blade got under the silicon and started to allow silicone to depert from the center of the top of the front glass. Looks like not attached 100 percent hard to describe. So plan is now to watch. Find a way to reduce the top water level a couple of inches. Find local glass guy to reattach the center brace. Needs to be fixed. Now issue will be all water out to do repair or not. I will find something to brace or clamp. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/31/2010, 10:43 PM	#122
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	Little update. The silcone ge 1200 is not holding the center brace to the top of the outside pane fro t of tank. I can see a pull it's weird if u look at the center brace edge where it attaches to the front two pieces it looks like it an 1/8 of inch short. Like it only covers half of the top edge of the front pane. I assumed imoved out and pulled away. But here us strange thing. I can see that the silicone attached to the top of the inner pane looks good. Will make some type of temp support. Large clamps to extend over the tank. And re silicone the supports. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

02/01/2010, 08:03 AM	#123
hoffy02 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Crosby, TX. Posts: 399	I still say not a crack but laminate damage/ existing flaw... hope it works out for you..

02/01/2010, 08:45 AM	#124
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	yepp.. just noticed need to repair the other brace.. this should be a warning for all.. i really think this started because the water level got high and coralin algea started to effect the silicone.. and got some water salt whatever damage on the silicone seal and started to work over time at the joint of the center brace.. do not remove center braces is confirmed in my mind.. not that i did but this shows me how damage can start.. my search for a good glass guy in Chicago will go full steam ahead today.. ps i found a thread where some one was looking up info on silicone and ge rep said that this stuff does loss strength over time when under water... crazy.. seven years only.. or to much pressure.. along with algea salt creep ect.. will post updates if you guys want __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

02/04/2010, 09:37 PM	#125
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	ok./. long day.. took off two braces after i piped clamp the tank.. no explosion.. pipe clamps still on. i removed all the black trim.. and removed two cross braces. the center one was not holding at all on the front and most likely was the cause of the issue.. anyways.. nice and clean now.. then installed a long brace across the cross braces and perimiter braces.. did this for the front and the back.. looks good.. lets see if it holds.. a question on side.. is 1/16 silicone the right size to try for.. also.. do we use clamps to hold in place or does this put to much pressure on the silicone so when you remove the clamps the silicone pulls apart.. will post pics when i get a chance... by the way.. really looks like a delamination.. not a crack.. now we hope it stops.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator