more tang arguments

[Angel*Fish]

Originally Posted by samdaman

The difference is that in my LFS someone dropped him off because he got "too big" now he is in search/NEED of a home suitable for him. he is in the normal fish cubicles...

The place I was talking about would take tangs that had gotten too big and put them in that tank. But now it's freshwater (Hurrican Ike I think)

[TampaReefer79]

Originally Posted by nanojg

Nope, fish are animals they dont have feelings, they just want to eat and ... have sexual relations, although even the [xxxx] deprive them of the latter due to the one tang per tank rule (well at least similar size/shape tangs)

Hobbyists deprive tangs of sexual relations? Did you read this thread at all? Do you have ANY idea how tangs mate? Not a single one of us on this board has a tank large enough for tangs to spawn. It's not the '1 tang per tiny tank rule'.

[Frogmanx82]

Originally Posted by TampaReefer79

Go ask the guys living in an 8'x4' cell 23 hours a day on death row if they feel cramped.

But a 12 x 6 cell, now you can really move. None of you have a tank big enough for a tang by this comparison. Tampareefer is making my point in the post above too.

[nanojg]

Originally Posted by TampaReefer79

Hobbyists deprive tangs of sexual relations? Did you read this thread at all? Do you have ANY idea how tangs mate? Not a single one of us on this board has a tank large enough for tangs to spawn. It's not the '1 tang per tiny tank rule'.

Then I guess every "single one of us on this board" provides an "unnatural living condition" for the tang...

[cubsFAN]

White Sox fans are twice as likely to put tangs in inappropriate size tanks. Just sayin...

[TampaReefer79]

Originally Posted by Frogmanx82

But a 12 x 6 cell, now you can really move. None of you have a tank big enough for a tang by this comparison. Tampareefer is making my point in the post above too.

Ah, but that's the point. While it still sucks, 12'x6' is BETTER THAN 8'x4'.

Originally Posted by nanojg

Then I guess every "single one of us on this board" provides an "unnatural living condition" for the tang...

YES, WE DO! Nobody is arguing that. Do YOU have an ocean in your house? No. Do I? No!! BUT, an 8'x4' box...while still not the ocean and still an ARTIFICIAL environment...is BETTER THAN a 3'x2' box.

[samdaman]

Ha ha, the cubs have been focusing on improper husbandry techniques with tangs since 1908, instead of winning a world series!

[samdaman]

Sorry we got a little of topic there..

[Metal Man 1221]

wow....

[username in use]

Read the first quote in Metal Man 1221's signature. Thats this whole thread in a nutshell.

[Frogmanx82]

Originally Posted by TampaReefer79

Ah, but that's the point. While it still sucks, 12'x6' is BETTER THAN 8'x4'.



YES, WE DO! Nobody is arguing that. Do YOU have an ocean in your house? No. Do I? No!! BUT, an 8'x4' box...while still not the ocean and still an ARTIFICIAL environment...is BETTER THAN a 3'x2' box.

I guess it comes down to how much better is it really. Is it better enough that you can justify what you do and criticize someone else? Apparently so, but somewhere I'd like to see a little less self righteousness when people have worked hard to keep these fish sometimes for many years.

The mortality rate for fish in this hobby is appalling, the money we spend we won't even admit to ourselves, the energy we waste is no consideration and yet people can still get on their high horse as champions for the very fish they imprison themselves. I'm just amused by the whole discussion.

[Angel*Fish]

Anybody know what this fish is up to?

[nanojg]

Originally Posted by Frogmanx82

I guess it comes down to how much better is it really. Is it better enough that you can justify what you do and criticize someone else? Apparently so, but somewhere I'd like to see a little less self righteousness when people have worked hard to keep these fish sometimes for many years.

The mortality rate for fish in this hobby is appalling, the money we spend we won't even admit to ourselves, the energy we waste is no consideration and yet people can still get on their high horse as champions for the very fish they imprison themselves. I'm just amused by the whole discussion.

You nailed it Frogman, consider this tampareefer:

Lets just say a tang has a swimming territory of 1000 yards in the wild (although it is probably way more than that):

An 8 foot tank is providing the tang with 0.27% of its natural habitat
A 3 foot tank is providing the tang with 0.10%

I cannot believe you would torcher the tang by squeezing him into a tiny glass box that is 1/4 of a 1 percent of its natural habitat...

[samdaman]

Originally Posted by Angel*Fish

Anybody know what this fish is up to?

Suicide my friend

[chumcrazy]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

chumcrazy, we CAN'T breed dwarf tangs because we can't breed tangs. Period. There ARE no captive-breds for most of the species in our tanks. The exceptions are clowns: huge exception. Dottybacks; cardinals; a couple of the very small gobies. There may be mandys. Not sure on that one. But in general, the fish you keep come from the ocean. Only. Period. THat's WHY we urge you to quarantine them. And why we try to inform you that you are buying infant fish, NOT fullgrown fish. Tangs are caught at very small size, because the spur of an adult would puncture a shipping bag, and stores could not stock these combative, fast-swimming fish in adult size without tanks to rival a public aquarium. Plus there is no way you could buy an 40" adult of some of these species and get it home in the car: you'd need a delivery truck. Movers. Four strong guys to get its shipping carton up the front steps. Ever seen tuna? Seen two guys struggling to lift a frozen tuna? That's about 40" of fish.

No, they're not bred, they're not manufactured, they're not made. They are a wild fish from the deep ocean.

This is kinda the whole point of my post. I believe that our hobby needs to work on being as self sustaining as possible. When you have a fish that out sells more than others, then thats the one that needs worked on for breeding. (same with corals) But when you want to tell someone they cant have a yellow tang for there 36/48" tank, its wrong. They have the same right as you do to have that hippo in a 300 gal. All the reasons its not ok for the smaller tanks are the same it isnt ok for the larger tanks. Nothing about what we do in our box of water is natural 30 gal or 300. These fish dont spend there life in any kind of confined area. And they can swim alot further in five minutes than any size tank I have ever seen in any house. I have the pleasure of diving and sport fishing out of boynton inlet florida, I have had the opportunity to see some of these fish first hand in there own environment and have been lucky enough to catch a few fish bigger than 40". I am not trying to say its ok to put a hippo in a nano tank but if the fish are being cared for and its some what reasonable then back off. Does anyone know what the average life span of a tang in the wild is? I know that with dorado (mahi-mahi) its less than one year and these fish can grow an inch a month.

[geaux xman]

a bunch of huge angels and blue tang in a 3ft tank.

i've seen videos of his with the same livestock dating back since june..

http://www.youtube.com/user/SPmaxell#p/u/2/AXiPW1mqsKM

[syrinx]

I think the end all- since there is no data involved here- only emotion- would be there needs to be a poll of longevity of tangs and their respective tank size. I am sorry if lifespan doesn`t denote health or happiness- but its all the reliable data we can get- without necropsies or psychotherapy. I love big tank sizes- used to keep neon tetras in a 180-we should do the best we can-but arbitrary "rules" do nothing but cause division. "Wheres the beef"!

[airplanes1016]

Originally Posted by jkeim1974

Read the whole post it was not my fish for 12 years. It was done growing when I got it if you would have read the whole thing I also said I would not add another tang to the tank once this one is gone. I realize his growth was stunted but I didn't cause it. Don't get mad though because you can't keep fish that long. I take very good care of my tank and I took this fish because the guy was going to throw him out. Sorry you feel it was better for him to be tossed.

Don't get mad though because you can't keep fish that long

really? well then.......

[geaux xman]

haha man yall kill me.

i think its about time this thread gets shut down. i dont see any good coming from it.

[Angel*Fish]

Originally Posted by syrinx

I think the end all- since there is no data involved here- only emotion- would be there needs to be a poll of longevity of tangs and their respective tank size. I am sorry if lifespan doesn`t denote health or happiness- but its all the reliable data we can get- without necropsies or psychotherapy. I love big tank sizes- used to keep neon tetras in a 180-we should do the best we can-but arbitrary "rules" do nothing but cause division. "Wheres the beef"!

There's lots of info out there already. Your post is an example of why people who don't understand the subject should put their egos aside and listen to the really good advice that's out there on this subject. It's ridiculous to go back to square one with this tang argument with every new thread as if we are breaking new ground and are suddenly discovering that tangs have certain requirements.

It saddens me to see that so many people think they know it all and won't listen to experts. (not referring to myself as an expert)

[Beaun]

Originally Posted by Frogmanx82

I guess it comes down to how much better is it really. Is it better enough that you can justify what you do and criticize someone else? Apparently so, but somewhere I'd like to see a little less self righteousness when people have worked hard to keep these fish sometimes for many years.

The mortality rate for fish in this hobby is appalling, the money we spend we won't even admit to ourselves, the energy we waste is no consideration and yet people can still get on their high horse as champions for the very fish they imprison themselves. I'm just amused by the whole discussion.

First, it's not about criticizing anyone else, it is about putting out good, sound advice to people looking at buying tangs.

Second, the mortality rate is so high because people are putting fish in unsuitable situations. Putting a tang in an appropriate sized tank ensures that it will live longer and another wont be purchased to replace it.

Honestly, your entire point seems like a convenient way to move away from the topic at hand. These tank sizes are not just pulled out of a hat, they are thoughtfully considered by top tier hobbyists, aquarists and professionals; people who have way more experience and knowledge then most do.

[Sk8r]

I think it's a good idea we talk---talk!---out some of these issues, because a lot of info floating around the hobby is on the same level as the cat-breeders who thought bearing a litter of alley cats would 'ruin' a pedigreed cat forever and make all her future offspring 'tainted' with alley-cat.
So I'm willing to be patient with this thread in the hopes that even the absolutely off-the-wall notions can get an airing, and perhaps make some new hobbyists think more deeply on their plans, their tanks, their proposed fishes.
What would I like to see happen? I'd like to see people plan the tank they actually have, have success with it, and just as we all do, limit the fish we keep to those appropriate to the tank we can afford. I keep gobies. I'd love to have some damsels, but I won't put them, or tangs, into a 54 gallon. Period.

[syrinx]

[QUOTE=Angel*Fish;18050766]There's lots of info out there already. Your post is an example of why people who don't understand the subject should put their egos aside and listen to the really good advice that's out there on this subject. It's ridiculous to go back to square one with this tang argument with every new thread as if we are breaking new ground and are suddenly discovering that tangs have certain requirements.

It saddens me to see that so many people think they know it all and won't listen to experts. (not referring to myself as an expert)[/QUOT

I think you need to back off on me there mister! I fully understand the issue- and have said bigger is better- if there is the data you state- direct me to it- I want to see numbers. I have no ego to deal with here- I am always open to learning- which is why I have experience as opposed to a limited view. There is always an exception to every rule and we need to be flexible in our opinions.

[mthomp]

Originally Posted by Angel*Fish

There's lots of info out there already. Your post is an example of why people who don't understand the subject should put their egos aside and listen to the really good advice that's out there on this subject. It's ridiculous to go back to square one with this tang argument with every new thread as if we are breaking new ground and are suddenly discovering that tangs have certain requirements.

It saddens me to see that so many people think they know it all and won't listen to experts. (not referring to myself as an expert)

there is not a single expert on this thread. and if there is please show your credentials as such.

[jkeim1974]

I found this on a local reef club. I think you guys should stop complaining about 55 and 75 gallon tanks and look for this one its a 10 gallon.