120 Gallon In Wall Mixed Reef Build

[sn4265]

Originally Posted by Reu2

Great advise. I think I will get what is needed to dose Limewater, but I'm not going to start unless levels get dangerous. This early in the chemistry and with no corals I'm hoping to avoid dosing anything until the tank has had some time to stabilize. If I'm lucky I'll be able to go straight to Two-Part when it's needed and skip the limewater all together.

I haven't tested Calcium levels yet.... I know; what reefer doesn't check his calcium levels? But I knew I wasn't placing corals in anytime soon so I haven't taken the time to learn to use my new Hanna Meter yet. I'm sure that'll happen this week. But with only snails using it, I can't imagine it's depleting at any noticeable rate.

Now I have to research limewater as it's not something I've used.

Limewater is dead simple to use. I think most of us use Mrs Wages Pickling Lime for additive. It will reach saturation so you really can't overdose the ATO water. Personally, I go for the super saturated route by adding about 125ml of vinegar to the ATO also. I figure a little carbon dosing can't hurt either.

Right now I'm all softies and LPS plus one rather large clam. My limewater is keeping up fine on Ca and Alk. Currently I'm dosing some Alk also every few days to try and boost the Alk level as it's a bit low for introducing SPS or so I've read. My thought is that running the limewater is cheaper and easier than dealing with dosing so I really don't see any downside to it.

[Reu2]

Okay, I pulled out the camera tonight and gave it a shot. I only have a couple corals in a holding tank and a few fish in my DT to work with. Feel free to hit the Reef Tank Set link to see the other 3 images I took tonight. http://www.flickr.com/photos/reu214/...7630684596740/ At the end.

This shot is a Ribbon Brain Coral's tentacles under two Purple Plus T5 bulbs with my Nikon DLSR and a budget Tamron 90mm Macro Lens @ f3.5. Shutter speed was 1/250th sec and ISO 1600 from about 6" away. I shot it in a RAW file format and warmed the color temperature a bunch in Adobe Lightroom.


Brain Coral by Reuben Neese, on Flickr

I used the high ISO to bring up the shutter speed but I guess I could have slowed the powerbeads to get less movement too.

[sn4265]

Originally Posted by Reu2

Okay, I pulled out the camera tonight and gave it a shot. I only have a couple corals in a holding tank and a few fish in my DT to work with. Feel free to hit the Reef Tank Set link to see the other 3 images I took tonight. http://www.flickr.com/photos/reu214/...7630684596740/ At the end.

This shot is a Ribbon Brain Coral's tentacles under two Purple Plus T5 bulbs with my Nikon DLSR and a budget Tamron 90mm Macro Lens @ f3.5. Shutter speed was 1/250th sec and ISO 1600 from about 6" away. I shot it in a RAW file format and warmed the color temperature a bunch in Adobe Lightroom.


Brain Coral by Reuben Neese, on Flickr

I used the high ISO to bring up the shutter speed but I guess I could have slowed the powerbeads to get less movement too.

Wow... It just became painfully obvious that I don't speak camera. You lost me right after T5.

[woodnaquanut]

Originally Posted by sn4265

Wow... It just became painfully obvious that I don't speak camera. You lost me right after T5.

Macro photography is not for the faint of heart. His 'budget' lens is about $500!

Camera equipment makes reefing look like a cheap hobby.

[Reu2]

Originally Posted by sn4265

Wow... It just became painfully obvious that I don't speak camera. You lost me right after T5.

T5 isn't camera tech, it's the type of florescent light bulb over the aquarium. I mention it as the color of the bulb greatly affects what the camera's limited sensor can reproduce.

Originally Posted by woodnaquanut

Macro photography is not for the faint of heart. His 'budget' lens is about $500!

Camera equipment makes reefing look like a cheap hobby.

Photography can cost a lot of money, and good lenses cost a lot. But you can convert your current lenses (assuming you have a DSLR) with the use of Extension tubes, or by using diopters which can get you into macro for much less money. Most compact cameras these days even have a Macro mode. The Macros the Pros use run $1200~$3000, that's why I used the term "Budget".

Either way, nothing beats what you have. If it's a camera phone, you can still get really nice photos with some trial and error. Just like reefing, it's not all about the equipment, it's mostly about the effort and attention.

[Reu2]

Here are a couple more I took over the weekend.


Ribbon Brain Coral by Reuben Neese, on Flickr


SA Vivid Fancy Clown by Reuben Neese, on Flickr


Also I've cleaned up my wall some more. Although I'm going to have to add another EB8 for the Apex soon. I'm adding two Dosing pumps. I just can't keep the Alkalinity up, and decided to skip Kalwasser and go straight to the planned Two-Part Dosing.

Observation Tank by Reuben Neese, on Flickr

[Reu2]

Can't seem to get Alkalinity up and the time has come to decide how to correct it. Many suggested kalkwasser, which is a logical step, but I have been planning to start Two-Part in the future. So I want to skip kalkwasser and go straight to Two-Part.

Bulk Reef Supply has a Two-Part kit with Parasitic Pumps and Magnesium for what seems like a decent price, and they ship practically over night even with ground shipping from the Twin Cities to Milwaukee. Not to mention my wife still has no idea how much I've spent on this setup :-s


Bulk Reef Supply Two-Part Kit with Parasitic Pumps by Reuben Neese, on Flickr

So to get this straight, I dose equal amounts of two-Part based on the lowest parameter?

Alkalinity is at 6.4 dkh and Calcium is 519ppm. I don't need to raise calcium but want to get dkh up between 8-9dkh (some say 10-12 for SPS heavy tanks).

According to the BRS Calculator based on an estimated 180 Gallons water volume I need to add 205.7ml of two-part.
So to add this much Two-Part with 1.1ml per minute pumps I need to run them for 187 Minutes each. From what I read, I should only add this when the DT lights are out and at different times (add Ash, then Calcium). I thought it'd be better to alternate, opinions?

Now to further complicate things, I'm assuming I want to add this ever 24 hours and adjust the amount as needed. So let's say lights out in the DT is 10 hours, that leaves five hours for each part meaning I want a pump running for 37:15 per hour between the hours of 10pm - 8am (theoretical 10hr period).

So is this math right? It seems like a lot of two-part....
How do I program the Apex for this (This may need to get posted over in the Apex forum)? I found examples, but I am not sure I fully understand it.
Please feel free to tell me I'm way off on any of this....

[Mr. Wiggles]

But that is just your corrective dose, not your daily consumption. What I would do is adjust your alk independently to the value you want with either the bicarbonate or carbonate solution. I would do this without the dosing pump because it will take forever to get there and there really isn't a point in doing it that slow, just add some alk solution a few different times. Then once the alk is at your target value monitor the drop in dKH over a few days or a week without changing anything else. Then divide the drop in alk over the number of days (more days helps to average out testing errors), and that becomes your daily consumption that you have to add each day with the dosing pump. Hope that helps!

[woodnaquanut]

Your alk is low and Ca high. Don't dose Ca until you get alk up.

I'd start dosing the alk at 10 minutes/hour. On the Apex that would be a OSC command for the outlet the pump is connected to. Something like (comments are in <>):

Fallback OFF
OSC 030:00/010:00/020:00 Then ON
If pH > 08.30 Then OFF
If FeedA 000 Then OFF
If Time 12:00 to 22:00 Then OFF

This will turn the dosing pump on for ten minutes starting at half past the hour, every hour till the 'If Time' statement shuts it down. You might have to increase the time a bit to account for what is used plus what you need to add extra to get it to normal range. If you need to increase time make the last time equally smaller.

If you have an EB8, the dosing pump needs to be on either the 4 or 8 outlet.

Once you get the alk up, wait till Ca comes down (420ppm?), then dose both.

My Ca program is almost the same except the OSC is:

OSC 000:00/010:00/050:00 Then ON

So Ca dosing starts on the hour and runs for 10 minutes. There is a 20 minute gap between Ca and alk dosing.

Do you test Mg?

[woodnaquanut]

Dang Mr. Wiggles types fast!

I'd use the dosing pump. It will give you practice and only takes two days to get alk up going at the max recommended by BRS.

My BIG caution is make sure you use either outlet #4 or #8. They are mechanical and will turn off a low draw pump like the dosing. On another outlet, they might not turn off!!

I'd be checking alk every day to make sure all is well.

For an excellent article (not sure I can post here), I googled 'craig bingman calcium' and found it at MAAST site. PM me if you can't find it.

[Reu2]

I've been tracking dkh from water changes. It starts at 8.9 and drops to 6.1 over 5 days giving me an average drop of .56 a day.

So with that math I need 205.7 ml to correct and 68.1 ml to maintain daily consumption?

I haven't measured Magnesium yet as I haven't had to dose it yet. The Kent Marine salt I'm using list it's contents as 1,350 to 1,450 ppm Magnesium. I'll pick up a test kit before I start dosing.

woodnaquanut you are using alternating Alk Calc schedule which makes since to me. I understand why not to add them at the same time, but it doesn't make since to me to add them at entirely different times.

So if I manually, and slowly add 205.7 ml Alk part, and setup the Pumps to add 68.1ml per day of two-part on a similar schedule I should be all set with exception on getting it dialed in?

[woodnaquanut]

Originally Posted by Reu2

I've been tracking dkh from water changes. It starts at 8.9 and drops to 6.1 over 5 days giving me an average drop of .56 a day.

So with that math I need 205.7 ml to correct and 68.1 ml to maintain daily consumption?

I haven't measured Magnesium yet as I haven't had to dose it yet. The Kent Marine salt I'm using list it's contents as 1,350 to 1,450 ppm Magnesium. I'll pick up a test kit before I start dosing.

woodnaquanut you are using alternating Alk Calc schedule which makes since to me. I understand why not to add them at the same time, but it doesn't make since to me to add them at entirely different times.

So if I manually, and slowly add 205.7 ml Alk part, and setup the Pumps to add 68.1ml per day of two-part on a similar schedule I should be all set with exception on getting it dialed in?

I got a whopping 180ml on the BRS dosing calculator. Must be doing something wrong.

I dose at the top of the hour and half past because it's easy to set up in the OSC command. I find that command confusing so this lessens my errors. I can increase dosing up to 30 minutes per hour before I have to think harder for a solution. As the system grows I will have to increase dosing so now I have some 'headroom' with simple math.

[Mr. Wiggles]

Assuming that the math gets straightened out (I haven't done it myself) then it sounds like you are on track.

I recommended dosing manually to get the number set because I always feel nervous running the peristaltic pumps for hours out of a fear of burning up the motor or wearing out the tubing. I typically dose every 6 hours with an hour difference between the Ca and alk to give myself some room to increase the dose over time.

Also, after having just gone through some crazy alk swings myself I now made a rule not to change my dosing schedule all at once and to adjust the dosing regimen by only 10% of the total dose at any one time.

[Reu2]

Woodnaquanut, make sure you change the drop down for meq/l, DKH, or ppm. I did that a couple time and got crazy numbers too.

Can I put the Alk in my ATO to slowly add it for me? Or would that be bad for the ATO?

[Reu2]

Reeftronics.net has this nifty spreadsheet http://www.reeftronics.net/support/A...alculator.xlsx
Here is the program it gave me for 62ml per day between 21:00 and 08:00 (Lower pH hours).

Fallback OFF
OSC 000:00/005:38/054:22 Then ON
If Time 8:00 to 20:59 Then OFF

I'll add the "IF Ph >8.35 Then OFF

So the full command for 62ml each would be this.

ALK
Fallback OFF
OSC 000:00/005:38/054:22 Then ON
If Time 8:00 to 20:59 Then OFF
If pH >8.35 Then OFF

CLK
Fallback OFF
OSC 030:00/005:38/024:22 Then ON
If Time 8:00 to 20:59 Then OFF
If pH >8.35 Then OFF

Look good?

[lluv24]

Great work on your whole system !!!!! I know how hard u have worked on it and it sure shows;-). Happy reefing !!!!!!!!!!

[woodnaquanut]

Originally Posted by Reu2

Reeftronics.net has this nifty spreadsheet http://www.reeftronics.net/support/A...alculator.xlsx
Here is the program it gave me for 62ml per day between 21:00 and 08:00 (Lower pH hours).

Fallback OFF
OSC 000:00/005:38/054:22 Then ON
If Time 8:00 to 20:59 Then OFF

I'll add the "IF Ph >8.35 Then OFF

So the full command for 62ml each would be this.

ALK
Fallback OFF
OSC 000:00/005:38/054:22 Then ON
If Time 8:00 to 20:59 Then OFF
If pH >8.35 Then OFF

CLK
Fallback OFF
OSC 030:00/005:38/024:22 Then ON
If Time 8:00 to 20:59 Then OFF
If pH >8.35 Then OFF

Look good?

Yep. At least to my caffeine starved brain.

I have not worried about the seconds. I don't feel mixing by the cup full gives enough accuracy to then go worrying about seconds (1.1 ml) of mix.

As things grow you'll be changing the numbers often. Of course you can tell your friends you dose for exactly 5 minutes 38 seconds! They WILL be impressed!

Time for a

Before we start downing some suds...
I forgot to ask. How come your Ca is so high? You're not dosing anything yet. Is the salt mix that high? Perhaps the test kit is off?? Just one of those nagging mysteries!

[Reu2]

Thanks for the comments and high fives.

Yes, the salt mix is that high. I bought Kent Marine as part of a group buy but at the 1.025 mix you get 500-550 calc.

I don't think I'll continue the use of Kent, but I have to get through 4 more boxes before I switch again. Likely going back to Red Sea Reef salt.

[sn4265]

I suppose one of these days I'm going to actually need to break down and measure my consumptions. Honestly though, my tank has been pretty simple in terms of consumption because the limewater has been holding things pretty steady without any need for fiddling around. Of course, my Alk has always been on the low side and who knows what will happen once I finally get that boosted up and once I get transitioned fully over to the new Photon 48 LED unit that I'm hoping to get over the tank this weekend.

Anyway, there is some great info here in this thread, so thanks and keep up the good work.

[Reu2]

My rock has spots....

Coralline algae Spots! It's Alive!


coralline algae by Reuben Neese, on Flickr

Okay I know it's not alive because of coralline algae, but it is welcome. The not purple and much more present spots are kind of freaking me out, I don't know if they're just diatom or some other algae. They look red under blue lighting, any ideas?

I started raising my Alk levels with the Soda ash mix from BRS, only 50ml today, i'll do 100ml tomorrow and that should get me pretty close to where I want to be.

[Reu2]

I'm struggling with Phosphates...

On the Hanna Meter I'm reading high since around the 19th in the realm of 0.00 to 0.12. Im my attempt to not panic I pulled out my Salifert Phosphate test kit for a second opinion. The Salifert still shows undetectable, not even a hint of blue.


Parameters20131127 by Reuben Neese, on Flickr

The only changes are a new pack of regents for the Hanna, and I've started substituting frozen food once a week, and Cobalt Flake food 3 times a week mixed with the usual Flake and pellet I have used since inception of the tank. Not more food, just more variety.

Since I noticed the phosphates I've tried retesting with the Hanna getting readings from .04 to .08 only minutes apart. With last nights reading of .12, I'm starting to panic.

I'm ready to start using GFO, but I don't want to start it if this is just operator error on my part, or test kit failure. The Salifert is new within the last couple months, and I have reviewed the instructions on both kits. Any ideas? Should I be on the phone with Hanna, or adding GFO?

[bader]

I wouldnt be to concerned with the gfo I always ran it kinda like carbon

[Reu2]

I booted up the Two-Part Routine last night. PH has been much better even before adding any ALK to the system just from a maturity standpoint. This is more to get my Alkalinity under control. With any luck I'll see stable numbers with little adjustment to the dosing schedule.

I still have not started the GFO reactor, phosphates dropped and are currently untraceable. I want my refugium to get more established so I'm going to hold off on GFO as long as possible.


Screen Shot 2013-12-03 at 9.17.22 AM by Reuben Neese, on Flickr

The observation tank is holding a number of SPS, LPS, and a couple softies primed and ready to get in the display tank. It's getting to the point that the observation tank is having difficulty keeping up. With any luck I'll see stable ALK/Calc numbers with little adjustment to the dosing schedule. Then I can start moving corals in.

My Fish in QT are still doing great. All three are swimming normally and eating well. The QT tank has no traceable ammonia or Nitrite. I think the powerhead in there might be a bit heavy for the 10 Gallon. I'm going to switch it out so they don't have to work so hard at night. Of course that means another purchase I was trying to avoid.

[bdeibler]

Just Got done reading through your whole thread and got to say, DANG man your set up rocks! I wish I had a back room I could tuck all my crap away in that would sure make my wife happy! Keep up all the good work! looking forward to continuing to follow your build.

[Strobes]

Wow this is cool. I'm from the area. I'd love to see this setup someday. I'm in the process of setting up a 120 but for a fowler. Maybe someday ill upgrade to a reef but right now I don't know enough about it nor can I afford it lol. Awesome build man