Finally! In Tank AEFW Treatment Success

[Laser Lammons]

We went ahead and prepared another 250% solution of interceptor and added to tank this morning.
In total we have now added 500% of the recommended dosage. Please go away black bugs or a total removal of corals and start over is in order..With the black bugs I am now scared that they will also attack the LPS eventually so all efforts for removal have been implemented.

[Laser Lammons]

I was trying to get in touch with MechENG99 who is member here and wrote the article mentioned above but his inbox is full. Really hoping he may have spoken with someone who has treated them in tank successfully. Anyone know how to contact him?

[Laser Lammons]

black bugs still seem unfazed on the SPS.

[msderganc]

Have you seen this article?
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/3/corals


Melafix might be good for something?

[Laser Lammons]

Originally Posted by msderganc

Have you seen this article?
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/3/corals


Melafix might be good for something?

Thanks! I have read that one over and over. Problem is this. They are at mass proportions in the display now and when I take a frag out to dip,or clip a receding colony (I can get them to come off with revive dip also after about 10 minutes of heavy dose) and then reintroduce to display the frag is infected in no time at all.
So yes I can get some out and save them into qt but the problem persists with the dispay as the colonies simply cannot be removed without a total tank breakdown.

[Laser Lammons]

8 hours later and NO site of any black bugs!!!I will do a water change, put carbon back in line, turn on skimmer, and observe. I can already say I see a few SPS that have a little PE that I have not seen in several days so maybe a good sign.

[msderganc]

Originally Posted by Laser Lammons

8 hours later and NO site of any black bugs!!!I will do a water change, put carbon back in line, turn on skimmer, and observe. I can already say I see a few SPS that have a little PE that I have not seen in several days so maybe a good sign.

Great news!

[MechEng99]

Originally Posted by Laser Lammons

I was trying to get in touch with MechENG99 who is member here and wrote the article mentioned above but his inbox is full. Really hoping he may have spoken with someone who has treated them in tank successfully. Anyone know how to contact him?

Hi! I found this thread by accident! Lucky coincidence!

The pests I had (A. corallina) were easily treated in a Bayer dip. Their anatomy is similar to red bugs enough that Interceptor should've worked without going up to such a high dosage. Was it expired or otherwise compromised? Another option is to try a lower temperature (down to 72 degrees for about 4 hours) if you're willing to take the risk. The last method worked on red bugs for me in my QT tank (except I went down to 65 degrees for 6 hours due to a power outage).

I'll go clean out my inbox. I'm rarely online these days.

[Laser Lammons]

Originally Posted by MechEng99

Hi! I found this thread by accident! Lucky coincidence!

The pests I had (A. corallina) were easily treated in a Bayer dip. Their anatomy is similar to red bugs enough that Interceptor should've worked without going up to such a high dosage. Was it expired or otherwise compromised? Another option is to try a lower temperature (down to 72 degrees for about 4 hours) if you're willing to take the risk. The last method worked on red bugs for me in my QT tank (except I went down to 65 degrees for 6 hours due to a power outage).

I'll go clean out my inbox. I'm rarely online these days.

The A corallina I was battling were very resistant for some reason but when I went up to a 500% interceptor dosage they are now gone. The interceptor was ordered from Australia on the internet and was expired as they are no longer making it. It may be that it was just diminished in effectiveness but fortunately I had enough on hand to wipe them out. Now to see how the tank recovers.

[MechEng99]

Originally Posted by Laser Lammons

The A corallina I was battling were very resistant for some reason but when I went up to a 500% interceptor dosage they are now gone. The interceptor was ordered from Australia on the internet and was expired as they are no longer making it. It may be that it was just diminished in effectiveness but fortunately I had enough on hand to wipe them out. Now to see how the tank recovers.

Were they actually A. corallina or just "black bugs"? There's like 600+ identified species of similar bugs if I recall correctly (not all of which infect Acros, but many do).

Glad to hear it sounds under control now.

[Laser Lammons]

Originally Posted by MechEng99

Were they actually A. corallina or just "black bugs"? There's like 600+ identified species of similar bugs if I recall correctly (not all of which infect Acros, but many do).

Glad to hear it sounds under control now.

They were so small I will really never know. I could not get a pic even worth posting. They were eating my acros for sure so maybe they will recover if we were able to get them all. Thanks for chiming in. I was in panic mode and not sure if interceptor was the answer but it appears it did work. Its a little hard to tell right now since last night I decided it would be a good time to update the firmware on my apex and it decided to go into eternal reset mode. Now I have no control and am actually just going to take the day off and try and catch my breath before I make a video on the worlds fastest 1000 gallon water change.

[MechEng99]

Originally Posted by Laser Lammons

They were so small I will really never know. I could not get a pic even worth posting. They were eating my acros for sure so maybe they will recover if we were able to get them all. Thanks for chiming in. I was in panic mode and not sure if interceptor was the answer but it appears it did work. Its a little hard to tell right now since last night I decided it would be a good time to update the firmware on my apex and it decided to go into eternal reset mode. Now I have no control and am actually just going to take the day off and try and catch my breath before I make a video on the worlds fastest 1000 gallon water change.

Oh goodness! When it rains it pours! I think you did the right thing. The spots I had were insanely small (as you could see on my webpage). I wouldn't have had a clue what they were if it wasn't for my microscope. You mentioned Bayer didn't work - what dosage did you use? The bugs I had definitely embedded themselves in the coral, so I wonder if they were protected against the normal "low-dose" Interceptor treatment. However, Bayer worked for me.

[Laser Lammons]

Originally Posted by MechEng99

Oh goodness! When it rains it pours! I think you did the right thing. The spots I had were insanely small (as you could see on my webpage). I wouldn't have had a clue what they were if it wasn't for my microscope. You mentioned Bayer didn't work - what dosage did you use? The bugs I had definitely embedded themselves in the coral, so I wonder if they were protected against the normal "low-dose" Interceptor treatment. However, Bayer worked for me.

I have removed several from the display and dipped in bayer and they are covered again the next day. I think they were clean after dip. You know it is difficult to tell when using bayer what is coming off.

So on to some visuals.
Here is a shot of another acro we are losing. You can clearly see purple/black almost flatworm looking, you can see yellow eggs such as aefw lay, and black bugs that are tiny (way smaller than the eggs-I count 5 in the second pic). So it appears the combo is still eating all the acros. So are the dark bugs maybe aefw that is no longer translucent? Are the eggs from the black bugs,aefw that cannot be seen, or maybe a darker variety of aefw?? They are so small I cannot get a better pic. Already using a 60mm macro. If you zoom in they are too grainy to tell.

[Laser Lammons]

full shot

[MechEng99]

I don't know about various species of "black bugs" as to whether they lay eggs, but red bugs are live bearers.

So are the pictures from before or after the Interceptor treatment?

[Laser Lammons]

Originally Posted by MechEng99

I don't know about various species of "black bugs" as to whether they lay eggs, but red bugs are live bearers.

So are the pictures from before or after the Interceptor treatment?

They are from after the treatment. It appears the black bugs lay orange eggs. I have spoken with my LFS and they have run into these as well. The good news is that Bayer does kill them but as you described in your article these guys like to latch on so even when dead they have to be blown of with turkey baster full blast.
I must have had these in the tank prior to the treatment as nothing has been introduced. I think they were possibly controlled by the aefw and vice versa and with the aefw gone they may have exploded with no competition/predators. I am and have been in the process of removing as many colonies as we can and start fragging. We have been fragging for several weeks now and have run out of room. Waiting on frag tank so hopefully it will be ready next week. I also believe these pests live in the tissue and can escape dipping/QT procedures that are currently implemented by the industry.

[Laser Lammons]

Prior to treatment the tank had about 10 wrasses and they were removed and only one survived. I have noticed him in the last 2 days eating aroung the acros so maybe I had enough wrasses prior to treatment to control them naturally. Well if that is the case all should be better soon, I just picked up 6 worker wrasses (2 red coris, 2 yellow coris, melanarus, and a green wrasse. Maybe they will be hungry for them. Worth a try huh....

[MechEng99]

Find someone with a microscope!! (Or make one with a laser pointer and a smartphone for like $10.) I want to know what they are! What dosage with Bayer is working on them? Crazy to think they're egg-layers. I was so relieved back in the day when we found out red bugs were live-bearers!

Are you going to do multiple treatments of Interceptor? Or are you going to dip, dip, and dip in Bayer? What's always worked for me is a dip in Bayer every day the first week, every other day the second week, every third day the third week, etc. for 7-8 weeks (obviously dipping only once a week in the later weeks).

[Laser Lammons]

Originally Posted by MechEng99

Find someone with a microscope!! (Or make one with a laser pointer and a smartphone for like $10.) I want to know what they are! What dosage with Bayer is working on them? Crazy to think they're egg-layers. I was so relieved back in the day when we found out red bugs were live-bearers!

Are you going to do multiple treatments of Interceptor? Or are you going to dip, dip, and dip in Bayer? What's always worked for me is a dip in Bayer every day the first week, every other day the second week, every third day the third week, etc. for 7-8 weeks (obviously dipping only once a week in the later weeks).

The plan has been to cut as many as possible and dip as much as possible with Bayer at ml bayer for every 24ml tank water. Biggest problem I am having now is I do not have a suitable QT that can hold all the livestock so it must be put back into the display and they are infected rather quickly. I have been spending an average of 6 hours per day dipping and cutting. If only the frag tank could show up I can get a seperate system and maybe get rid of them for good. I will work on pics and will order a microscope asap and get some good pics...

[Laser Lammons]

[QUOTE=MechEng99;23503394]Find someone with a microscope!!



Someone please point me to a microscope that will be adequate for photos of these tiny little suckers and I will get it ordered. I have not used one since grade school and I think they have changed a bit since then. lol

looking at this

http://www.amscope.com/40x.html?gcli...Z2HBoCpLjw_wcB

[Laser Lammons]

[QUOTE=Laser Lammons;23504081]

Originally Posted by MechEng99

Find someone with a microscope!!



Someone please point me to a microscope that will be adequate for photos of these tiny little suckers and I will get it ordered. I have not used one since grade school and I think they have changed a bit since then. lol

looking at this

http://www.amscope.com/40x.html?gcli...Z2HBoCpLjw_wcB

The wife went ahead and ordered it for my valentines day present. Gotta love her!!! We will have it Tuesday through amazon prime so hopefully pics by Tuesday evening. Was able to convince her that it will be great tool to investigate any corals coming in..

[MechEng99]

Niiiiice! I just have a thrift store special ($15). You saw the sad shape of my images, but they were good enough for an ID. Keep us posted!

[Saltwaternooby]

Well just playing catch up reading, sorry to hear about the recent losses. Would you attribute that too the die off of bacteria or the black bugs?

[Laser Lammons]

Originally Posted by Saltwaternooby

Well just playing catch up reading, sorry to hear about the recent losses. Would you attribute that too the die off of bacteria or the black bugs?

The die off of the bacteria caused tank parameters to shift but that is under control. The black bugs were eating the acros for sure. We have now removed all sps from the tank by chopping up colonies and the frags are doing well after a dip in bayer. We will continue to dip for the next several weeks and keep the tank bare of sps but not sure if that will get rid of the black bugs or not. Hoping the wrasses can get them under control as well so time will tell.

[MechEng99]

Some of the species of black bugs have been shown to infect other species of SPS, not just Acros. I don't know of any species of black bugs that cross the SPS-to-LPS genre.

How's the microscope looking? It's Tuesday evening! I really want to see what these are.