New EcoTech Marine Vectra Return Pump

[aculross]

sub'd

[ca1ore]

Given that 8/3 is next week, do we have any idea of the capabilities of this pump? Specifically whether it will have the same kind of ramping capability of the vortech (given that it shares the same QD controller).

[Chris155hp]

I doubt that these return pumps would be able to ramp as quickly as vortechs so the ramp might not be as quick but still effective for close loops.

[ca1ore]

CL would be my application for this pump, so it doesn't have to ramp as fast ...... I think I'll be a 'fast follower' on this.

[slief]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Given that 8/3 is next week, do we have any idea of the capabilities of this pump? Specifically whether it will have the same kind of ramping capability of the vortech (given that it shares the same QD controller).

I can all but guarantee you that these pumps won't have ramp capabilites like the Vortechs. These motors have "Soft Start" and that inhibits their ability to ramp up and down like the Vortechs. It will take several seconds or more to get to full speed.

[ArmanS]

Just got an email from another retailer, apparently they are claiming that the

M1 (2000 GPH, 80 Watts) will be shipped to them on August 3rd and the L1 (3100 GPH, 130 watts) will be shipping about a month later.

[805reef]

Originally Posted by ArmanS

Just got an email from another retailer, apparently they are claiming that the

M1 (2000 GPH, 80 Watts) will be shipped to them on August 3rd and the L1 (3100 GPH, 130 watts) will be shipping about a month later.

Thanks for the update. I was hoping I the P1 would be out sooner. I might have to go with something else. Bummer

[ArmanS]

Originally Posted by 805reef

Thanks for the update. I was hoping I the P1 would be out sooner. I might have to go with something else. Bummer

No problem, The RD3's are great pumps, I was hoping the L1's be out sooner as well but now after talking to Scott 1 RD3 230w seems like it would easily be enough for my needs.

[docsky]

Would an EcoTech Marine Vectra or any DC type pump ad as much heat to my water as my water blatster return pump currently does? I run 3 400w MH and i am trying to control my tank temp better.

I have been thinking about buying a refill gold as i am told they don't ad much if any heat to the water but then these Vectra popped up so now i am torn in which direction i should go.

[slief]

Originally Posted by docsky

Would an EcoTech Marine Vectra or any DC type pump ad as much heat to my water as my water blatster return pump currently does? I run 3 400w MH and i am trying to control my tank temp better.

I have been thinking about buying a refill gold as i am told they don't ad much if any heat to the water but then these Vectra popped up so now i am torn in which direction i should go.

The Vectra should add no heat at all so to answer your question, if your water blaster adds heat, the Vectra will not and your tank temps should drop a bit as a result. This is typical of most DC pumps because the power supplies and heat is relagated to the controller and power supply as opposed to the the heat generated within AC powered pumps.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by slief

I can all but guarantee you that these pumps won't have ramp capabilites like the Vortechs. These motors have "Soft Start" and that inhibits their ability to ramp up and down like the Vortechs. It will take several seconds or more to get to full speed.

Don't disagree - so that's my expectation, we'll see in practice soon enough.

[805reef]

Jake just posted that they will be doing a live google hangouts interview with the ecotech guys about the Vectra tomorrow! Should be a lot of good info from that

[tlc]

does anybody know if it has a feed mode like most current dc pumps ??

[slief]

Originally Posted by tlc

does anybody know if it has a feed mode like most current dc pumps ??

I'm sure it will.

[tkeracer619]

Is the soft start part of the controller or built into the motor block?

[laverda]

Originally Posted by slief

The Vectra should add no heat at all so to answer your question, if your water blaster adds heat, the Vectra will not and your tank temps should drop a bit as a result. This is typical of most DC pumps because the power supplies and heat is relagated to the controller and power supply as opposed to the the heat generated within AC powered pumps.

Sorry, but that is not a true statement. The motor itself uses electricity, therefore it generates heat. The power supply and controller should be using a very small portion of the total watage used. a 80 watt pump is like having a 80 watt heater for the most part. in the case of a DC pump some of the heat is going into the air around the PS and controller. even that can add radiant or ambient heat to your tank if they are under you stand and it is not ventilated well.

[slief]

Originally Posted by laverda

Sorry, but that is not a true statement. The motor itself uses electricity, therefore it generates heat. The power supply and controller should be using a very small portion of the total watage used. a 80 watt pump is like having a 80 watt heater for the most part. in the case of a DC pump some of the heat is going into the air around the PS and controller. even that can add radiant or ambient heat to your tank if they are under you stand and it is not ventilated well.

We can agree to disagree. While it is true that the controller can add radiant heat to the underside of the tank but the motors themselves run cold. While there is voltage passed into the motor block, most if not all of the heat is contained in the power supply and or controller and it's not passed on to the motor after the AC to DC conversion unlike a convential AC motor where all the energy is converted within or on the motor itself.

I have a pair of 230 watt RE DC style pumps that I am running externally. Like most other DC pumps, my RD3 230 motors themselves run cold to the touch and transfer no noticeable heat into the tank. These replaced Superdarts and a Hammerhead, both of which were relatively hot to the touch unlike the RD3's. These Vectra's should be no different. If you place your controller outside the stand, there should be little to no heat transfer into the water from the pump itself. From hands on experience with similar pumps, I stand by what I said..

[slief]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Is the soft start part of the controller or built into the motor block?

I am pretty certain it's a function or more so a limitation of the motors themselves. Pretty much all DC motors operate that way. I'd love to be wrong on this one because a fast ramping closed loop pump would be pretty sweet but due to limitations of the motors and the size and mass of the magnet on the impellers, I don't think that's going to be possible with these pumps.

[03LightningSVT]

Unless the motor is turned off or 100% efficient when turned on, heat will be transferred into the water.

[gcarroll]

Originally Posted by slief

We can agree to disagree. While it is true that the controller can add radiant heat to the underside of the tank but the motors themselves run cold. While there is voltage passed into the motor block, most if not all of the heat is contained in the power supply and or controller and it's not passed on to the motor after the AC to DC conversion unlike a convential AC motor where all the energy is converted within or on the motor itself.

Slief, any electricity that makes it’s way to the pump comes out as heat. There is no way around it. Yes, some energy is lost prior to the power getting to the pump, but if it makes it to the pump, it comes out as heat.

Originally Posted by slief

I have a pair of 230 watt RE DC style pumps that I am running externally. Like most other DC pumps, my RD3 230 motors themselves run cold to the touch and transfer no noticeable heat into the tank. These replaced Superdarts and a Hammerhead, both of which were relatively hot to the touch unlike the RD3's. These Vectra's should be no different. If you place your controller outside the stand, there should be little to no heat transfer into the water from the pump itself. From hands on experience with similar pumps, I stand by what I said..

Let’s not forget theses pumps have a constant supply of cool water running through them that absolutely helps to keep it cool. If the Dart and Hammerhead were water cooled from the inside you would notice more less heat on the outside. Not sure how high you are running your pumps but the fact that you may have reduced your wattage could also be a contributing factor to you seeing reduced heat.

[slief]

Originally Posted by gcarroll

Slief, any electricity that makes it’s way to the pump comes out as heat. There is no way around it. Yes, some energy is lost prior to the power getting to the pump, but if it makes it to the pump, it comes out as heat.

Let’s not forget theses pumps have a constant supply of cool water running through them that absolutely helps to keep it cool. If the Dart and Hammerhead were water cooled from the inside you would notice more less heat on the outside. Not sure how high you are running your pumps but the fact that you may have reduced your wattage could also be a contributing factor to you seeing reduced heat.

I am well aware of the watt/heat factor but I suspect that between the conversion process and the fact that the motors don't require as much power as the overall controller/power supply, the end result is a significant reduction in heat within the block. I've run my closed loop RD3 at full power for 24 hours and it still ran just as cool as it does at lower speed. The controllers bare most of the heat with these pumps. Scott Stennberg here on the forum saw an immediate 2 degree drop in his temps when he switched to these pumps. While it is true that water running inside the pumps can do wonders for keeping the block cooler, I've run other magnetic drive AC pumps such as Eheims and there is a notable difference in operating temps which I suspect is due to the fact that the power supply and conversion is done within the controller as opposed to the block. The Eheims run relatively cool but they don't run as cool as these DC pumps. You can feel heat with the Eheim, albeit not much but you can't feel any heat with the DC's. At least not with the RD3's.

[gcarroll]

Originally Posted by slief

I am well aware of the watt/heat factor but I suspect that between the conversion process and the fact that the motors don't require as much power as the overall controller/power supply, the end result is a significant reduction in heat within the block. I've run my closed loop RD3 at full power for 24 hours and it still ran just as cool as it does at lower speed. The controllers bare most of the heat with these pumps. Scott Stennberg here on the forum saw an immediate 2 degree drop in his temps when he switched to these pumps. While it is true that water running inside the pumps can do wonders for keeping the block cooler, I've run other magnetic drive AC pumps such as Eheims and there is a notable difference in operating temps which I suspect is due to the fact that the power supply and conversion is done within the controller as opposed to the block. The Eheims run relatively cool but they don't run as cool as these DC pumps. You can feel heat with the Eheim, albeit not much but you can't feel any heat with the DC's. At least not with the RD3's.

slief, I agree that there is less heat. I disagree there is "no" heat. I merely highlighted a couple of factors that could be there reason why there is so much more of a reduction. Scott is a good friend of mine and her replaced his 372 watt Hammerhead Gold with a 230 watt RD3 Speedy. Then consider that he is only running his RD3 at 120 watts. Taking that into account he has removed 250 watts from the system. I think that we might want to factor in. Now we know that the Hammerhead has an air cooled motor however we also know that there is definitely some heat transfer to water so the question is... how much? Even if it's just 150 watts (btw, it think that is being very conservative, how much does a 150w heater on at all times heat up the water. More than 2 degrees?

Now multiply that times 3 since he has now replaced his closed loop pumps as well.

Is the DC power supply in the controller for the RD3? I notice there is not a separate power supply? Is that why the control module is so large?

[slief]

Originally Posted by gcarroll

slief, I agree that there is less heat. I disagree there is "no" heat. I merely highlighted a couple of factors that could be there reason why there is so much more of a reduction. Scott is a good friend of mine and her replaced his 372 watt Hammerhead Gold with a 230 watt RD3 Speedy. Then consider that he is only running his RD3 at 120 watts. Taking that into account he has removed 250 watts from the system. I think that we might want to factor in. Now we know that the Hammerhead has an air cooled motor however we also know that there is definitely some heat transfer to water so the question is... how much? Even if it's just 150 watts (btw, it think that is being very conservative, how much does a 150w heater on at all times heat up the water. More than 2 degrees?

Now multiply that times 3 since he has now replaced his closed loop pumps as well.

Is the DC power supply in the controller for the RD3? I notice there is not a separate power supply? Is that why the control module is so large?

You bring up some very good points. He did swap out a Hammerhead but he also swapped out some RD3 80 watt pumps as well. The Hammerheads do run relatively cool but that is in part due to the volute being an inch or more away from the motor but there obviously is some heat transfer down the motors shaft and into the impeller.

I wish I had another one that I could run in a bucket to do some further tests to see how one heats up the water in a controlled ambient temp enviornment.. That said, Yes, the AC to DC transformer is built into the controller box in the case of the RD3. I might ask to have an RD3 80W sent to me for additional testing. 80w's in a 5 gallon bucket would really heat up the water if in fact there was any reasonable heat transfer from the DC power. Heck, even 40 watts would heat up a 5 gallon bucket well above ambient.

[gcarroll]

Originally Posted by slief

You bring up some very good points. I wish I had another one that I could run in a bucket to do some further tests. That said, Yes, the DC power supply is built into the controller box in the case of the RD3.

Well if that box alone generated 230w of heat i would guess it would get pretty dang hot!

[slief]

Originally Posted by gcarroll

Well if that box alone generated 230w of heat i would guess it would get pretty dang hot!

It does get pretty warm.. Not burn your hands hot but there is certainly some heat which is why the control box is large and made of relatively thick aluminum.. No plastic in that control box at all.