Brs video on black box

[kenneth wolfe]

Thank you. Btw if you don't like my spelling or my grammar, you know what you can do..j
Jfy

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

Thank you. Btw if you don't like my spelling or my grammar, you know what you can do..j
Jfy

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As karma would have it , I received an alarm from apex for low par, came home to a fixture that failed to start, all this talking about them must have stressed it out..lol, but I have many spares and parts, that particular fixture was do for the upgrades, I found they last about 3 years and the diodes are spent. I have stacks of parts so for me it's not that big of a deal..

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[lingwendil]

I've used these things before, and repaired plenty of them. I've personally had one catch fire, and at the time it was in my three year old sons bedroom six feet from his bed, and was used over a coverglass and suspended 12" from the aquarium. I used to think they were a good idea, until that night.

If you actually watched the video, and can comprehend basic concepts when it comes to lightling and LED technology, you will see that these are not as well engineered as most anything else on the market. A basic MCPCB with a pair of fans pointed at it is not good thermal design. The ****-poor drivers are laughable. A basic DC power brick and a set of Meanwell LDD-H drivers would be a ten-fold increase in quality and safety, at negligible price increase for the overall fixture. A basic block heatsink over a section of the MCPCB would be cheap, and is included on some of the better black boxes, but not the $100 ones everyone praises...

Are they cheap? Sure. Do they work? Sure. They will grow coral at least, and look decent to most of the folks that buy them. They have limitations, and some real safety concerns that should be considered. Not all of them are exactly the same, and some are better than others, but you can find much better options if you spend a bit more money (or DIY, but you better know what you're doing to be in the same price bracket) that will work better, and have much better engineering for safety and longevity.

[Pslreefer]

I have 4 mars aqua over my 180 for about 1.5yrs now. All is




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[kenneth wolfe]

Everyone is correct on there logic, I am a hands on diy type of man, some are not and thats ok, some rather throw the old mighty dollar at it , I have to admit after all the work and effort there , I can say it's getting a little old repairing modifying , I'm hopping this time around I will get more than 3 years, im considering replacing all drivers and add more heat sink , but if I only have to swap fixtues every 3 yeears or so , whats the big deal, I'm also confident that we will see a increase in New designs and drivers, how long do we think they will still make the same box, I've seen them add the wifi , and there same price as 2 years ago. I believe we will see a improved version every couple years to stay under the high end lightning market, I cant wait to see the newer versions.

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by lingwendil

I've used these things before, and repaired plenty of them. I've personally had one catch fire, and at the time it was in my three year old sons bedroom six feet from his bed, and was used over a coverglass and suspended 12" from the aquarium. I used to think they were a good idea, until that night.

If you actually watched the video, and can comprehend basic concepts when it comes to lightling and LED technology, you will see that these are not as well engineered as most anything else on the market. A basic MCPCB with a pair of fans pointed at it is not good thermal design. The ****-poor drivers are laughable. A basic DC power brick and a set of Meanwell LDD-H drivers would be a ten-fold increase in quality and safety, at negligible price increase for the overall fixture. A basic block heatsink over a section of the MCPCB would be cheap, and is included on some of the better black boxes, but not the $100 ones everyone praises...

Are they cheap? Sure. Do they work? Sure. They will grow coral at least, and look decent to most of the folks that buy them. They have limitations, and some real safety concerns that should be considered. Not all of them are exactly the same, and some are better than others, but you can find much better options if you spend a bit more money (or DIY, but you better know what you're doing to be in the same price bracket) that will work better, and have much better engineering for safety and longevity.

I comprehend very well, I also understand **** talking, I'm sure we don't want to turn this personal. Im thick skinned I don't think you are..

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

I comprehend very well, I also understand **** talking, I'm sure we don't want to turn this personal. Im thick skinned I don't think you are..

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Im taking a beating on nothing for nothing this thread is about how a now priced 65.00 light against a 800.00 light , and a brs video..I watched the ****ing video I started the thread. I understand the whole situation , I'm also saying most of you guys are correct, it still don't change anything..

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

Im taking a beating on nothing for nothing this thread is about how a now priced 65.00 light against a 800.00 light , and a brs video..I watched the ****ing video I started the thread. I understand the whole situation , I'm also saying most of you guys are correct, it still don't change anything..

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Please, please, lets not throw in the jebao pumps in the mix........( for grammar nazi) ,,,,,to many periods and commas, ...... Those pumps in same boat...

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

Please, please, lets not throw in the jebao pumps in the mix........( for grammar nazi) ,,,,,to many periods and commas, ...... Those pumps in same boat...

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Heres another one, for the grammar nazis and post nazis , if you don't like my thread please start your own, don't be jealous your topics suck, start something worth while don't be a hater..

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

Heres another one, for the grammar nazis and post nazis , if you don't like my thread please start your own, don't be jealous your topics suck, start something worth while don't be a hater..

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One more fore the guy that made a commit on my post numbers,,thats one more..eat it..

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[lingwendil]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

I comprehend very well, I also understand **** talking, I'm sure we don't want to turn this personal. Im thick skinned I don't think you are..

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Don't misunderstand me, I'm not **** talking. Just throwing in my personal opinion and experience. The video had some clear measurements and details that are pretty straightforward to understand. If you still decide to use these fixtures, fine. It won't hurt me or the leaders in the industry at all.

And yes, my skin is quite thick, keep proving whatever point your trying to make (I can't seem to see one) and it won't bother me one bit.

[mikem101]

Originally Posted by lingwendil

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not **** talking. Just throwing in my personal opinion and experience. The video had some clear measurements and details that are pretty straightforward to understand. If you still decide to use these fixtures, fine. It won't hurt me or the leaders in the industry at all.



And yes, my skin is quite thick, keep proving whatever point your trying to make (I can't seem to see one) and it won't bother me one bit.

Man this guy is just trying to prove his black box lights are as good as the name brand lights. There is no convincing him other wise, no point in arguing the point. The majority of the post have explained he was wrong, but it's like arguing with a wall. Everyone knows you can build your own lights that do what kessil, AI, and radion do, but their controllers and quality is better. He seems to think he is a better engineer but you can't argue with crazy! The majority of us know what the better option is man!


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[Fredfish]

Originally Posted by lingwendil

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not **** talking. Just throwing in my personal opinion and experience. The video had some clear measurements and details that are pretty straightforward to understand. If you still decide to use these fixtures, fine. It won't hurt me or the leaders in the industry at all.

And yes, my skin is quite thick, keep proving whatever point your trying to make (I can't seem to see one) and it won't bother me one bit.

I agree very strait forward to understand if you take a critical look at the message.

BRS has taken the cheapest of the cheapest black box and implied that all 'black boxes' (what ever they don't sell?) fit into the same category. It is very easy to verify this is not the case.

BRS claims that all black boxes have "license plate heatsinks". If you take a look at the pictures Kenneth put in his first post you will see this is not true. Are Kenneth's heatsinks as good as those on the Radions? Nope, but they are a good step up from a thin aluminum plate. If you step up to something like the ReefBreeders unit, you are getting a heatsink on par with what BRS sells and they are still quite a bit less expensive.

BRS shows a light graph with a narrow peak in the blue and no red bump. A quick look on the SB Reef website shows that their current gen lights have some 395 UV and ample 420 and 490 LEDs along with that red bump that helps with colour. This is on a $120 base unit, so right on the money for the $100 black box criteria.

So, two clear misrepresentations by BRS. Why do you suppose they did that?

[flsalty]

Originally Posted by Fredfish

I agree very strait forward to understand if you take a critical look at the message.

BRS has taken the cheapest of the cheapest black box and implied that all 'black boxes' (what ever they don't sell?) fit into the same category. It is very easy to verify this is not the case.

BRS claims that all black boxes have "license plate heatsinks". If you take a look at the pictures Kenneth put in his first post you will see this is not true. Are Kenneth's heatsinks as good as those on the Radions? Nope, but they are a good step up from a thin aluminum plate. If you step up to something like the ReefBreeders unit, you are getting a heatsink on par with what BRS sells and they are still quite a bit less expensive.

BRS shows a light graph with a narrow peak in the blue and no red bump. A quick look on the SB Reef website shows that their current gen lights have some 395 UV and ample 420 and 490 LEDs along with that red bump that helps with colour. This is on a $120 base unit, so right on the money for the $100 black box criteria.

So, two clear misrepresentations by BRS. Why do you suppose they did that?

Totally agree.

While the BRS videos are chock full of info, the reality is they are a marketing gimmick. Internet Marketing 101.

Unlike the OP, I don't think the video shows that the bb outperforms the radions. I think it shows that they are not as far off as the price difference would seem to dictate. I think there is enough DIY info out there to make them come pretty close for a lot less money.

I would love to see some more tests, but BRS isn't going to do that.

[lingwendil]

Originally Posted by flsalty

Totally agree.

While the BRS videos are chock full of info, the reality is they are a marketing gimmick. Internet Marketing 101.

Unlike the OP, I don't think the video shows that the bb outperforms the radions. I think it shows that they are not as far off as the price difference would seem to dictate. I think there is enough DIY info out there to make them come pretty close for a lot less money.

I would love to see some more tests, but BRS isn't going to do that.

Agree with everything said.

[mikem101]

Originally Posted by flsalty

Totally agree.



While the BRS videos are chock full of info, the reality is they are a marketing gimmick. Internet Marketing 101.



Unlike the OP, I don't think the video shows that the bb outperforms the radions. I think it shows that they are not as far off as the price difference would seem to dictate. I think there is enough DIY info out there to make them come pretty close for a lot less money.



I would love to see some more tests, but BRS isn't going to do that.

I don't understand why we aren't taking other lighting options into play? Like the a360w they are no where near that price, and extremely close to what a DIY option would be. Especially when you add in warranty and controllability ya know. I get it that black box's and DIY options can work, but you can't say they are a better overall unit then some of the name brand stuff.


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[flsalty]

Originally Posted by mikem101

I don't understand why we aren't taking other lighting options into play? Like the a360w they are no where near that price, and extremely close to what a DIY option would be. Especially when you add in warranty and controllability ya know. I get it that black box's and DIY options can work, but you can't say they are a better overall unit then some of the name brand stuff.


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I haven't checked to see if BRS has done any tests on those. I'm sort of wondering if they picked the Radions because the others were too close for comfort. I also wonder if they picked the worst performing black box on purpose.

I guess it depends on what you mean by better. For me, cost is a huge factor. I don't need the newest, coolest thing. I'm fine with halides and T5 until the prices come down. If I was forced to go with LED I would probably go with a modded black box because I'm a tinkerer.That's a big part of the hobby for me. Plus I'm just cheap.

[mikem101]

Originally Posted by flsalty

I haven't checked to see if BRS has done any tests on those. I'm sort of wondering if they picked the Radions because the others were too close for comfort. I also wonder if they picked the worst performing black box on purpose.



I guess it depends on what you mean by better. For me, cost is a huge factor. I don't need the newest, coolest thing. I'm fine with halides and T5 until the prices come down. If I was forced to go with LED I would probably go with a modded black box because I'm a tinkerer.That's a big part of the hobby for me. Plus I'm just cheap.

I totally get that!!! And that's ok I mean saying a black box will do the job is ok but to say they are better than name brand is a claim that no one has really tested.. hrs has a video about the a360w and they work will and at 350-400 they aren't a bad buy for someone who wants a plug and play experience. I totally get that a black box or DIY work for some people but you can't say they are a better overall lighting system.


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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by Fredfish

I agree very strait forward to understand if you take a critical look at the message.

BRS has taken the cheapest of the cheapest black box and implied that all 'black boxes' (what ever they don't sell?) fit into the same category. It is very easy to verify this is not the case.

BRS claims that all black boxes have "license plate heatsinks". If you take a look at the pictures Kenneth put in his first post you will see this is not true. Are Kenneth's heatsinks as good as those on the Radions? Nope, but they are a good step up from a thin aluminum plate. If you step up to something like the ReefBreeders unit, you are getting a heatsink on par with what BRS sells and they are still quite a bit less expensive.

BRS shows a light graph with a narrow peak in the blue and no red bump. A quick look on the SB Reef website shows that their current gen lights have some 395 UV and ample 420 and 490 LEDs along with that red bump that helps with colour. This is on a $120 base unit, so right on the money for the $100 black box criteria.

So, two clear misrepresentations by BRS. Why do you suppose they did that?

Wow, thank you for some understanding.

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by lingwendil

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not **** talking. Just throwing in my personal opinion and experience. The video had some clear measurements and details that are pretty straightforward to understand. If you still decide to use these fixtures, fine. It won't hurt me or the leaders in the industry at all.

And yes, my skin is quite thick, keep proving whatever point your trying to make (I can't seem to see one) and it won't bother me one bit.

I will post some par measurements off my apex, but I can assure its not the same as brs test procedures, witch I feel is great..no complaints, I can see easy to explain high spots in the graphs, one of my reason to relay to the rc members is that after my person testing and working w the bb is they are very close to or "better," , spread and par numbers, after a diffuser , also the use of the aftermarket diode replacement bords, the standard bb is ok to a 70% standard imo but the addition of the diffuser and new diodes, its a word of difference than the brs video, I know my light is not stock, if you also understand t5s are every year , all , all leds have a life span even the best of the best bin leds, just only arguing over moths not years. , the bet is still own over a radion, we just need some real world comparison, when I was a younger man I helped w car audio amplifiers design and cost analysis, I can say for 100% the cost is in the bulk, the weight of the heat sink, all the $$$ in the heat sink..simple..

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

Wow, thank you for some understanding.

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I believe they do it is because starting a reef tank is expensive and confusing to average new reefer, I personally have given thousands of dollars to new hobbyist to get them started , the bb is the industry standard for new hobbyist, how can you really expect a guy trying to explain to his wife , he needs to spend 800 for a light, just saying, a , $100.00 puts that man into the hobby, I believe we're not looking at this correctly, all the older reefers say no from there life of experience, you scare the new away with that narrowly minded mindsets..

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

I believe they do it is because starting a reef tank is expensive and confusing to average nee reefers, I personally have given thousands of dollars to new hobbies to get them started, the bb is the industry standard for new hobbyist, how can you really expect a guy trying to explain to his wife , he needs to spend 800 for a light, just saying, a , 100.00 puts that man into the hobby, I believe we're not looking at this correctly, all the older reefers say no from there life of experience, you scare the new away with that narrowly minded mindsets..

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Some one said that the bb is nothing more than a license plate worth of aluminum, you sir are correct, with out getting into watts per sq. , easy quick math puts these fixtures within there duty cycles, "I can explain if im foced to" vrs life expectancy , I will say again , all leds have a life expectancy, just because you pick the best out of the bin , that don't change that buy much..talking all that in mind you will still have to upgrade your leds, w all the lightning manufacturers..every 3 or 4 yarars , where is the cost analysis on that , I've seen replacement pucks for older radions on ebay, same, same, China stuff..I can build a duplicate from the China parts...actually better..duplicate..

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by mikem101

Man this guy is just trying to prove his black box lights are as good as the name brand lights. There is no convincing him other wise, no point in arguing the point. The majority of the post have explained he was wrong, but it's like arguing with a wall. Everyone knows you can build your own lights that do what kessil, AI, and radion do, but their controllers and quality is better. He seems to think he is a better engineer but you can't argue with crazy! The majority of us know what the better option is man!


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Read my post ,refers to that mindset..

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by mikem101

I totally get that!!! And that's ok I mean saying a black box will do the job is ok but to say they are better than name brand is a claim that no one has really tested.. hrs has a video about the a360w and they work will and at 350-400 they aren't a bad buy for someone who wants a plug and play experience. I totally get that a black box or DIY work for some people but you can't say they are a better overall lighting system.


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Ok lets say for argument sakes ,the one on one comparison that brs did against the bb, the bb was higher par, had better pur over test, the biggest deal was there so called laser beam, I found this my self while messing w them, being in sandblastng business I knew what the effects what a diffuser has, to be honest I onle tried one size abrasive , the type and size of medai determins the effect from diffuser..like im saying w diffuser, its a light fixture you have not seen, if you own one try it out..it spreads the pur and par, very smooth and uniform , kinda like t5s im trying different tricks in diffuser , I will post results , it takes time getting good data from par meter..

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[kenneth wolfe]

Originally Posted by kenneth wolfe

Ok lets say for argument sakes ,the one on one comparison that brs did against the bb, the bb was higher par, had better pur over test, the biggest deal was there so called laser beam, I found this my self while messing w them, being in sandblastng business I knew what the effects what a diffuser has, to be honest I onle tried one size abrasive , the type and size of medai determins the effect from diffuser..like im saying w diffuser, its a light fixture you have not seen, if you own one try it out..it spreads the pur and par, very smooth and uniform , kinda like t5s im trying different tricks in diffuser , I will post results , it takes time getting good data from par meter..

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One thing that helps the bb is there powerful, when you add a diffuser you kill the par but pur rises, why you ask, the blues are most dominant, the whites get diffused further and spead, the newest bb have there own diffusers on the diodes , so it's a great mix,,I've found drilling out the desired diodes you can really Taylor the effects your after..

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