Sulfur DeNitrators - Page 5

skydancer · 02/18/2006, 10:08 AM

Hello gents, a couple of questions.
1) What is the one and easy way to top off the chamber while running? Should I inject water though the check valve with the syringe that came with the unit? And yes 10ml at the time...
2) While I was trying to top off the unit with water I opened the bleeding valve slowly but nothing happened. Then I opened it all the way and lost siphon. While the bleeding valve was off, I used the syringe to "inject water" in the chamber to top off the unit. Then I put the bleeding valve back on and now there is NO siphon. What am I going wrong? Should I wait a while before siphon gets started or is it instant?

skydancer · 02/19/2006, 09:17 AM

Well I'm back with lots of info... on my experiences with the XL Sulfur De-Nitrifier (Midwest Aquatic).

1) NO SIPHON: The reason I had lost siphon was because the pump was not primed but it was running so quietly and I thought everything was going fine. After many unsuccessful attempts to "start" it, I opened it up for inspection. What I found out was that some of the ARM rocks had been sucked into the pump and it could not get primed. Once I took the small rocks out it started fine. I made the following changes to the unit so this problem won't happen again.
First I changed the translucent tube that came with the unit that goes into the input of the pump. I used clear tubing so I can see thru it when there is no water flow.
The other change I made was to install a strainer on the input fitting inside the chamber, under the cap. I found a rio 900 strainer and cut it to size and pushed it into the plastic fitting that is glued on the inside of the chamber's cover. That way I would eliminate the possibility of rocks getting sucked into the pump again.

2) DRIP RATE ADJUSTMENT: I had installed the pinch valve on the output line of the unit. Over the course of 2 weeks the line had been permanently deformed at the pinched location and it would not open to increase the drip rate. So I decided to replace the pinch valve with an inline mini/micro plastic valve. That way the tubing will not get deformed.

After I completed the "improvements" above, the unit started up like a charm and again the effluent stays at ZERO nitrates. I increased the drip rate to about 5 drops per sec (I think but it is very hard to tell) and now I'm waiting for the tank nitrates to drop. So far there is not change on the tank nitrates (25 to 50 but closer to 50)...
Maybe I should start taking the bioballs out a little at a time...

skydancer · 03/01/2006, 03:48 PM

Update:
Tank Nitrates results:

SUCCESS!!! Using the Salifert Nitrate test;
after 2 weeks of continuous drip of 5-6 drops /sec the tank water nitrates have gone down to the range of 10 -25 (but closer to 25) ppm.

The original tank water nitrate level with the same salifert test were 25 to 50 (but closer to 50).

So definitely I have noticed a Nitrate reduction using the Sulfur De-Nitrifier for about 3 weeks.

I'll update you again in 1 week.

dirtyreefer · 03/02/2006, 12:54 PM

Great thread, I've just subscribed to it. Would anyone recommend using a sulfur denitrator on a tank without a sump, and have the effluent injected directly into my HOB skimmer (Deltec MCE600) for aeration?

Another question for the coil denitrator users: once your nitrate levels drop to zero in your tank, can you continue to use the denitrator at a very slow drip rate? Is there any negative impact to continue using this on a nitrate free tank, or should it be brought offline afterwards until your nitrates build up again? And if you have to bring it down, will it have to recycle again (wait another 4-6 weeks) in order for it to work again if you have nitrate problems later on down the road?

tycham · 03/17/2006, 07:55 AM

Has anyone made a coil denitrator and used sulphur beads instead of BioBals?

reefguy888 · 03/30/2006, 08:14 PM

Well since no one else is posting. I bought the Midwest Aquatic 4 weeks ago. Tank nitrates were around 50 ppm FOWLR. Nitrates are gone. I haven't had any trouble. No losing suction. I did put the pinch valve on the tube going into the sump. I think they should just tell people to do that. It looks like #1

http://www.midwestaquatic.com/SETUP_DIAGRAMS.htm

I'm really pretty happy with it. The price is high, but it's cheaper than the other ones.

Ereefic · 03/30/2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reefguy888
Well since no one else is posting. I bought the Midwest Aquatic 4 weeks ago. Tank nitrates were around 50 ppm FOWLR. Nitrates are gone. I haven't had any trouble. No losing suction. I did put the pinch valve on the tube going into the sump. I think they should just tell people to do that. It looks like #1

http://www.midwestaquatic.com/SETUP_DIAGRAMS.htm

I'm really pretty happy with it. The price is high, but it's cheaper than the other ones.

Great news!! Mine will be here tomorrow. My nitrates aren't quite as bad as yours were, but this should take care of it.

Pickupman66 · 03/30/2006, 10:09 PM

For my coil, It has to run all the time. if you shut it down, then the bacteria will die and when you start it back up, you will hav eto go thru the cycle all over again. it does not hurt and is constantly taking what nitrates you have in the water out.

skydancer · 03/31/2006, 06:34 AM

Errefic, quick question. What is the easiest way to tell when the Eheim pump is circulating water? Like pickupman66 said, my pump stopped pumping for 5 days while I was on vacation (the water level in the chamber dropped below the eheim pump intake) and when I got back the bacteria had died and I had to start the cycle again.

reefguy888 · 03/31/2006, 07:51 AM

That can be a trick. I took a flash light and looked in the botton of the chamber. I could definitely see current. I saw you had a rock stuck in the pump. Did you leave a clearing between the rocks and the intake tube? I have about an inch between the two and I don't see the pump sucking up any rocks.

Ereefic · 03/31/2006, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by skydancer
Errefic, quick question. What is the easiest way to tell when the Eheim pump is circulating water? Like pickupman66 said, my pump stopped pumping for 5 days while I was on vacation (the water level in the chamber dropped below the eheim pump intake) and when I got back the bacteria had died and I had to start the cycle again.

I just got mine running now. When I put the sulfer in, a little went all the way to the bottom so if it's swirling around, you know the pumps running.

If it's not, I just tilted the unit a little to get the sulfer in front of the flow and it swirled around.

packer · 04/01/2006, 01:15 PM

I just got and set mine up yesterday. Everything went well and unit primed and flow was great right away. I filled the chamber with water prior to sealing the unit so dont know if this helped or not. I also have a few sulphur beads that went below the bottom pad and if you look at them you can see movement so the pump is doing its thing. My tank Nitrates are about 60 ppm so am excited to see results!! I have bioballs so thats the reason for nitrates going and getting up fast. But with a heavy fish load I have chosen to leave the bioballs and try this route. Hope it works!!

fishnugget · 04/01/2006, 04:12 PM

How do you get rid of the sulfer smell in the house?

packer · 04/02/2006, 07:25 PM

your joking right?? No sulphur smell comes from the unit, unless you did something wrong.

fishnugget · 04/02/2006, 07:41 PM

Can get sulpher smell if drip too slow

reefguy888 · 04/02/2006, 08:12 PM

It's true. With this or any denitrator. Once the nitrate in your tank is gone, you can get a smell if you run the denitrator too slow.
So once all your nitrate is gone, you have to increase the flow rate. This way it keeps up with the nitrate being produced by your tank and you get no smell and no nitrate.

http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePa...Denitrator.htm

skydancer · 04/03/2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ereefic
I just got mine running now. When I put the sulfer in, a little went all the way to the bottom so if it's swirling around, you know the pumps running. If it's not, I just tilted the unit a little to get the sulfer in front of the flow and it swirled around.

In order to eliminate the possibility of having rocks sucked in to the pump, I installed a strainer at the pump intake. I think it was the strainer that would not allow enough water to come up and the pump would not stay primed. Thanks for your suggestion, I removed the strainer and lowered the gravel level to about 1 inch below the Eheim intake. It seems to be working now (at least it stays primed). I have had the De-Nitrator running for more than one month but have always had setbacks, so I 'm looking forward to starting over again... I just completed the 1-drop/sec-with-zero-nitrates stage and I'm now at the 3-drop/sec stage. My tank nitrates are still 25 - 50 but closer to 50, I think. I'm able to maintain the 50-level with weekly 10% water changes so I can't wait until I get the De-Nitrator working.

skydancer · 04/03/2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reefguy888
That can be a trick. I took a flash light and looked in the botton of the chamber. I could definitely see current. I saw you had a rock stuck in the pump. Did you leave a clearing between the rocks and the intake tube? I have about an inch between the two and I don't see the pump sucking up any rocks.

Sorry reefguy888, the post above is in reponse to your quote but I clicked the wrong "quote" button.

packer · 04/10/2006, 11:04 AM

At day 10 since installation, my tank Nitrates have started to drop. At the start they were close to 50ppm and now they are below 40ppm. This is great news as my nitrates were always on the rise due to my bio-fish load in the tank, and I would do 30 percent water changes weekly to keep them down. At the start they were the highest I ever let them get to, but wanted to see if this would do the trick. It is obviously working as no water change has been made and they are less than 10 days ago. By now without the unit I would have calculated them to be around 80-100 ppm. It sure is nice to keep the Alk, Calc, Mg, and Ph stable without the weekly water change and also have the nitrates going down!!

packer · 04/18/2006, 12:46 PM

Update: Now at day 18 since installation and tank nitrates are at slightly above 10ppm. This unit REALLY WORKS!! If it seems pricey then take a look at the math... By now I would have done 3 water changes of about 30 gallons, $90.00 (at about one dollar per gallon) plus the time and effort to do the change. Even with those water changes, my nitrates would only drop to about 20ppm. So at that rate the unit will start SAVING me money in about another month and a half. I did do a 10% change the other day just to kick in some fresh water, and will do this as good husbandry but I love the fact that it will be by choice, not a must to get nitrates down.I also hated the adjustment after the change to stabilize the tank. Seemed it would just get right all around and time for another Nitrate reducing change. Throw in the cost of test kits to get your water back to norms after a bigger change, plus all the $ additives for ca alk ph etc....Well you get the picture!

grochmal · 04/18/2006, 01:39 PM

Just out of curiousity, how did you come up with an estimate of $1/gallon?
Must be some expensive salt you're using

skydancer · 04/18/2006, 01:49 PM

I finally got the Sulfur De-Nitrifier unit circulating water properly. I installed an aqualifter pump on the input of the unit without a filter. the water line gets water from the sump, lifts it 2 feet and pumps it in the input of the unit. The output is adjusted by a needle in-line valve sourced at us_plastics.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...uct%5Fid=15616

After about a week of constant water circulation I have seen a large amount of bacteria growing on the sulfur media. the unit is dripping at about 5 drops per sec.

To my surprise, today I measured the tank nitrates and the reading was 5-10. Mind you, I started with a reading of 50+ and the only reason it stayed there was because I was changing at least 30 gal and sometimes 60 gal per week. Packer, I sympathize. I don't remember how long ago it was that I had a 10 or less nitrate reading. Maybe 2 years??? WOW.
I'll throw a party when my nitrates go down to zero... I can't wait... Everybody is invited!!! And yes, the unit works once you get the water circulation (Eheim pump) going good. But it took me 2 months to get it right! I'm a slow learner.

packer · 04/18/2006, 01:59 PM

I do not have a R/O filter so I have been getting water from my LFS. They use r/o water and instant ocean salt, and sell it for about a dollar a gallon mixed. I would get six five gallon buckets every water change. That is how I came up with my cost for water.

grochmal · 04/18/2006, 02:45 PM

Wow, that is a pain.
Not having to lug all that water around is worth it right there!

Mdwannabe · 04/20/2006, 01:31 PM

Packer:

Put logic in the equation, $30.00 every time equals an R/O unit in 10 water changes, not to mention the cost of back surgery! Believe me I know an R/O unit is cheaper than surgery.
And how much was the DeNitrator?
Sound's like the cart was before the horse to me.
JMTCW

02/18/2006, 10:08 AM	#101
skydancer Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 438	Hello gents, a couple of questions. 1) What is the one and easy way to top off the chamber while running? Should I inject water though the check valve with the syringe that came with the unit? And yes 10ml at the time... 2) While I was trying to top off the unit with water I opened the bleeding valve slowly but nothing happened. Then I opened it all the way and lost siphon. While the bleeding valve was off, I used the syringe to "inject water" in the chamber to top off the unit. Then I put the bleeding valve back on and now there is NO siphon. What am I going wrong? Should I wait a while before siphon gets started or is it instant? __________________ ...You are free... because of the BRAVE... Current Tank Info: 300G reef, 800lb LR, APEX, Deltec AP702, LEDs, PF601, KM500, UV, RODI, Ozone, carbon, Biopellets

02/19/2006, 09:17 AM	#102
skydancer Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 438	Well I'm back with lots of info... on my experiences with the XL Sulfur De-Nitrifier (Midwest Aquatic). 1) NO SIPHON: The reason I had lost siphon was because the pump was not primed but it was running so quietly and I thought everything was going fine. After many unsuccessful attempts to "start" it, I opened it up for inspection. What I found out was that some of the ARM rocks had been sucked into the pump and it could not get primed. Once I took the small rocks out it started fine. I made the following changes to the unit so this problem won't happen again. First I changed the translucent tube that came with the unit that goes into the input of the pump. I used clear tubing so I can see thru it when there is no water flow. The other change I made was to install a strainer on the input fitting inside the chamber, under the cap. I found a rio 900 strainer and cut it to size and pushed it into the plastic fitting that is glued on the inside of the chamber's cover. That way I would eliminate the possibility of rocks getting sucked into the pump again. 2) DRIP RATE ADJUSTMENT: I had installed the pinch valve on the output line of the unit. Over the course of 2 weeks the line had been permanently deformed at the pinched location and it would not open to increase the drip rate. So I decided to replace the pinch valve with an inline mini/micro plastic valve. That way the tubing will not get deformed. After I completed the "improvements" above, the unit started up like a charm and again the effluent stays at ZERO nitrates. I increased the drip rate to about 5 drops per sec (I think but it is very hard to tell) and now I'm waiting for the tank nitrates to drop. So far there is not change on the tank nitrates (25 to 50 but closer to 50)... Maybe I should start taking the bioballs out a little at a time... __________________ ...You are free... because of the BRAVE... Current Tank Info: 300G reef, 800lb LR, APEX, Deltec AP702, LEDs, PF601, KM500, UV, RODI, Ozone, carbon, Biopellets

03/01/2006, 03:48 PM	#103
skydancer Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 438	Update: Tank Nitrates results: SUCCESS!!! Using the Salifert Nitrate test; after 2 weeks of continuous drip of 5-6 drops /sec the tank water nitrates have gone down to the range of 10 -25 (but closer to 25) ppm. The original tank water nitrate level with the same salifert test were 25 to 50 (but closer to 50). So definitely I have noticed a Nitrate reduction using the Sulfur De-Nitrifier for about 3 weeks. I'll update you again in 1 week. __________________ ...You are free... because of the BRAVE... Current Tank Info: 300G reef, 800lb LR, APEX, Deltec AP702, LEDs, PF601, KM500, UV, RODI, Ozone, carbon, Biopellets

03/30/2006, 08:14 PM	#106
reefguy888 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 36	Denitrator Well since no one else is posting. I bought the Midwest Aquatic 4 weeks ago. Tank nitrates were around 50 ppm FOWLR. Nitrates are gone. I haven't had any trouble. No losing suction. I did put the pinch valve on the tube going into the sump. I think they should just tell people to do that. It looks like #1 http://www.midwestaquatic.com/SETUP_DIAGRAMS.htm I'm really pretty happy with it. The price is high, but it's cheaper than the other ones.

03/30/2006, 10:09 PM	#108
Pickupman66 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Winchester, TN Posts: 3,714	For my coil, It has to run all the time. if you shut it down, then the bacteria will die and when you start it back up, you will hav eto go thru the cycle all over again. it does not hurt and is constantly taking what nitrates you have in the water out. __________________ What a Pretty day to stick your head in your tank and stare at your corals. 15 years reef keeping experience in old school simplistic ways. /><{{{{"> Archon BETA Current Tank Info: 66 Gallon SCA Rimless, Custom 40 Breeder sump, DC pumps, Lumentek Pro 240 controlled by my Archon

03/02/2006, 12:54 PM	#104
dirtyreefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 2,221	Great thread, I've just subscribed to it. Would anyone recommend using a sulfur denitrator on a tank without a sump, and have the effluent injected directly into my HOB skimmer (Deltec MCE600) for aeration? Another question for the coil denitrator users: once your nitrate levels drop to zero in your tank, can you continue to use the denitrator at a very slow drip rate? Is there any negative impact to continue using this on a nitrate free tank, or should it be brought offline afterwards until your nitrates build up again? And if you have to bring it down, will it have to recycle again (wait another 4-6 weeks) in order for it to work again if you have nitrate problems later on down the road?

03/17/2006, 07:55 AM	#105
tycham Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sultan, WA Posts: 203	Has anyone made a coil denitrator and used sulphur beads instead of BioBals?

03/31/2006, 06:34 AM	#109
skydancer Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 438	Errefic, quick question. What is the easiest way to tell when the Eheim pump is circulating water? Like pickupman66 said, my pump stopped pumping for 5 days while I was on vacation (the water level in the chamber dropped below the eheim pump intake) and when I got back the bacteria had died and I had to start the cycle again. __________________ ...You are free... because of the BRAVE... Current Tank Info: 300G reef, 800lb LR, APEX, Deltec AP702, LEDs, PF601, KM500, UV, RODI, Ozone, carbon, Biopellets

03/31/2006, 07:51 AM	#110
reefguy888 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 36	Water circulation That can be a trick. I took a flash light and looked in the botton of the chamber. I could definitely see current. I saw you had a rock stuck in the pump. Did you leave a clearing between the rocks and the intake tube? I have about an inch between the two and I don't see the pump sucking up any rocks. Last edited by reefguy888; 03/31/2006 at 08:10 AM.

04/01/2006, 01:15 PM	#112
packer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ventura, Ca Posts: 338	I just got and set mine up yesterday. Everything went well and unit primed and flow was great right away. I filled the chamber with water prior to sealing the unit so dont know if this helped or not. I also have a few sulphur beads that went below the bottom pad and if you look at them you can see movement so the pump is doing its thing. My tank Nitrates are about 60 ppm so am excited to see results!! I have bioballs so thats the reason for nitrates going and getting up fast. But with a heavy fish load I have chosen to leave the bioballs and try this route. Hope it works!!

04/01/2006, 04:12 PM	#113
fishnugget Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Parkland, Florida Posts: 1,164	Smell How do you get rid of the sulfer smell in the house?

04/02/2006, 07:25 PM	#114
packer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ventura, Ca Posts: 338	your joking right?? No sulphur smell comes from the unit, unless you did something wrong.

04/02/2006, 07:41 PM	#115
fishnugget Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Parkland, Florida Posts: 1,164	No True Can get sulpher smell if drip too slow

04/02/2006, 08:12 PM	#116
reefguy888 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 36	smell It's true. With this or any denitrator. Once the nitrate in your tank is gone, you can get a smell if you run the denitrator too slow. So once all your nitrate is gone, you have to increase the flow rate. This way it keeps up with the nitrate being produced by your tank and you get no smell and no nitrate. http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePa...Denitrator.htm

04/10/2006, 11:04 AM	#119
packer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ventura, Ca Posts: 338	At day 10 since installation, my tank Nitrates have started to drop. At the start they were close to 50ppm and now they are below 40ppm. This is great news as my nitrates were always on the rise due to my bio-fish load in the tank, and I would do 30 percent water changes weekly to keep them down. At the start they were the highest I ever let them get to, but wanted to see if this would do the trick. It is obviously working as no water change has been made and they are less than 10 days ago. By now without the unit I would have calculated them to be around 80-100 ppm. It sure is nice to keep the Alk, Calc, Mg, and Ph stable without the weekly water change and also have the nitrates going down!!

04/18/2006, 12:46 PM	#120
packer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ventura, Ca Posts: 338	Update: Now at day 18 since installation and tank nitrates are at slightly above 10ppm. This unit REALLY WORKS!! If it seems pricey then take a look at the math... By now I would have done 3 water changes of about 30 gallons, $90.00 (at about one dollar per gallon) plus the time and effort to do the change. Even with those water changes, my nitrates would only drop to about 20ppm. So at that rate the unit will start SAVING me money in about another month and a half. I did do a 10% change the other day just to kick in some fresh water, and will do this as good husbandry but I love the fact that it will be by choice, not a must to get nitrates down.I also hated the adjustment after the change to stabilize the tank. Seemed it would just get right all around and time for another Nitrate reducing change. Throw in the cost of test kits to get your water back to norms after a bigger change, plus all the $ additives for ca alk ph etc....Well you get the picture!

04/18/2006, 01:39 PM	#121
grochmal Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 647	Just out of curiousity, how did you come up with an estimate of $1/gallon? Must be some expensive salt you're using __________________ Jeff Current Tank Info: 125 gallon bare-bottom reef, 6' Maristar light, Tunze streams, 55 gallon sump, ASM G3 skimmer, RDSB

04/18/2006, 01:49 PM	#122
skydancer Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 438	I finally got the Sulfur De-Nitrifier unit circulating water properly. I installed an aqualifter pump on the input of the unit without a filter. the water line gets water from the sump, lifts it 2 feet and pumps it in the input of the unit. The output is adjusted by a needle in-line valve sourced at us_plastics. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...uct%5Fid=15616 After about a week of constant water circulation I have seen a large amount of bacteria growing on the sulfur media. the unit is dripping at about 5 drops per sec. To my surprise, today I measured the tank nitrates and the reading was 5-10. Mind you, I started with a reading of 50+ and the only reason it stayed there was because I was changing at least 30 gal and sometimes 60 gal per week. Packer, I sympathize. I don't remember how long ago it was that I had a 10 or less nitrate reading. Maybe 2 years??? WOW. I'll throw a party when my nitrates go down to zero... I can't wait... Everybody is invited!!! And yes, the unit works once you get the water circulation (Eheim pump) going good. But it took me 2 months to get it right! I'm a slow learner. __________________ ...You are free... because of the BRAVE... Current Tank Info: 300G reef, 800lb LR, APEX, Deltec AP702, LEDs, PF601, KM500, UV, RODI, Ozone, carbon, Biopellets

04/18/2006, 01:59 PM	#123
packer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ventura, Ca Posts: 338	I do not have a R/O filter so I have been getting water from my LFS. They use r/o water and instant ocean salt, and sell it for about a dollar a gallon mixed. I would get six five gallon buckets every water change. That is how I came up with my cost for water.

04/18/2006, 02:45 PM	#124
grochmal Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 647	Wow, that is a pain. Not having to lug all that water around is worth it right there! __________________ Jeff Current Tank Info: 125 gallon bare-bottom reef, 6' Maristar light, Tunze streams, 55 gallon sump, ASM G3 skimmer, RDSB

04/20/2006, 01:31 PM	#125
Mdwannabe Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville Posts: 653	Packer: Put logic in the equation, $30.00 every time equals an R/O unit in 10 water changes, not to mention the cost of back surgery! Believe me I know an R/O unit is cheaper than surgery. And how much was the DeNitrator? Sound's like the cart was before the horse to me. JMTCW __________________ While their is no "I" in team-work, there is an "ME".... Current Tank Info: 59" l x 21" W x 31" T (custom 170 gallon), 3-400W/20,000K MH, LED Moon Lights, 1/4 HP Cooler, Ca Reactor, UV Sterilizer, 75 Gallon sump W/Fuge