NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[Rhodes19]

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

What size return pump? or what flow rate? I would guess 1.5 for drains and 1 for return, but really don't know the specifics.

Ditto. That probably be ideal.

[puggsli1]

I'm new to saltwater so i have no idea what would be a good return pump i have not got that far yet. What would you recommend? I was thinking it would be placed in the sump in it's own chamber with a refuge to grow pods for a mandarin and skimmer in there own chambers as well. The coral i'm thinking of adding are mostly lps with a few sps. Fish will be tang yellow or purple, mandarin, some type of sand cleaning goby, 2 clownfish, and a few others i have not decided on.

[puggsli1]

would a eheim 1262 pump work?

[Rhodes19]

Originally Posted by puggsli1

I'm new to saltwater so i have no idea what would be a good return pump i have not got that far yet. What would you recommend? I was thinking it would be placed in the sump in it's own chamber with a refuge to grow pods for a mandarin and skimmer in there own chambers as well. The coral i'm thinking of adding are mostly lps with a few sps. Fish will be tang yellow or purple, mandarin, some type of sand cleaning goby, 2 clownfish, and a few others i have not decided on.

Puggsli1,

You may get more/better responses to you questions if you start a thread in the equipment forum. There is more folks there that want to discuss pumps than you will find in this thread. Personally, I have a Pan World external pump and its my first real big pump, so I really can't give any advice on other types of pumps but I can tell you that you will want between 5-10 times your tank volume for flow through the sump. More flow in the tank can be achieved with closed loops systems or power heads. HTH

Chris

[puggsli1]

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

What size return pump? or what flow rate? I would guess 1.5 for drains and 1 for return, but really don't know the specifics.

I will be using a 900 gph return pump. So 1.5" for the drains and 1" for the return is that the bulk head size?? or is it the pipe size with reducer slip fitting to make it fit in a 1" bh and 3/4" bh?
Also how close should the gate valve be to the sump on the main drain line?
On to the gate valve the and plumbing. Should i use a 1.5" gate with 1.5" plumbing on the drain lines? and 1" with 3/4" slip reducer from return pump back to the tank.

[SonsOfLeda]

I just picked up a 120G Tech tank and am looking at using this method of plumbing to quiet down the overflows. There are four holes drilled in the overflow (45mm each - for 1" bulkheads). I figure I'd probably be best served by using them all as drains and plumbing the return up and over the back. The other thought I had was to use three as drains and one as the return.

My return pump is going to be an Eheim 1260 (635GPH), so you can guestimate the kind of flow rate I'm going to be having based on that.

My question is how best to plumb and control the drains/returns that I have available.

Thanks!

EDIT: I may have just found the answer to my own question! How's this design look? --> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...&postcount=540

[shaggss]

or you could try THIS

[arthurlo]

Three as drains and one return would give you a clean look without requiring space for plumbing running behind the back of the tank.

The 1260 will be fine with one return, and honestly, having three drains could be complete overkill for that type of flow. I believe these tanks have a mix of 1" and 1.25" bulkheads. With four drains, there will likely be only one that is a full siphon while the others are dry unless the siphon is blocked.

Shaggss suggestion of the Beananimal overflow is quite good too - it could be lower maintenance/fiddling compared to the overflow in this thread.

It all boils down to personal preference/willingness to do all the plumbing. All your ideas sound reasonable.

[jdjeff58]

Ok...I've read the entire thread. I've got most of my parts...including 2 gate valves. Looking at the photos, can anyone tell me the best place to put the gate valves? I have an AGA 120 and note the bypass valve to regulate flow through the fuge.

My original thinking was to put the valves under the tank. I'm running into issues with this. The valves are too big to just stick them in line. I wanted to keep the barbed fitting coming out of the wall for the main drain since it make it easier to get the valves off if needed.

I'm stumped. I just spent over 2 hours at lowe's trying to figure out a way to connect the valves under the tank without having to snake piping all over the place. All that space under there and space is still limited. I also need to leave room for the return lines that need to sweep up to the back of the tank.

So can these valves be placed on the sump/fuge side (other room)? Tank and sump/fuge are on the same level. The hole in the wall under the tank is where my emergency drain will break through. I have all the parts for that and it's pretty much a no brainer at this point.

I was reading about the recommended valve placement for the 120 dual overflow and I can't get the explaination to make sense. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[jdjeff58]

bump

[PowermanKW]

Ok jeff....First off.... for dual overflows, it is necessary to tie the two overflows together. It is way to hard to balance both overflows individually.

So... you said in your PM the two overflow lines are 1.25". So you need to plumb the two overflow lines into a tee. The tee needs to be the two 1.25 inlets, with one 1.5" outlet. 1.5" out will flow plenty of water for both overflows. Then you put your 1.5" gate valve in for adjustment. One valve, both overflows will flow the same.

There is no problems putting the valves at the sump. I have the same set up as you and mine are in the equipment room.

The line going to the fuge... needs to be before the 1.5" gate valve. Looking at your plumbing I'm not sure you would have the same problem as I did, but placing the fuge after the gate valve cause my sump to siphon out my fuge. Seeing you have different water levels as I do I would expect the same problem.

So.... the line you have in the rear...take out the ball valve you have... and place it after the tee you have going to the fuge. Just put it right at the end to the fuge to control flow.

Now you will have a clear line from both overflows. I really think that it wound be best to turn the line in the front going to your sump with an elbow. Not totally sure, but you don't want one overflow having a straight shot and the other having a twisty path.... man I really don't know.... both overflows will have the same head, and you are taking water off the other so it might be fine. However... you do need a tee with two 1.25" on the top of the "T" exiting to a larger 1.5" exit to accomodate the two flows. So that might force the issue of just how you have to join it. Then just dump the 1.5" to the sump. Easy peazy.

[jdjeff58]

I've drawn both scenarios out on paper....my existing setup vs. what you are describing. It almost looks like all i need to do is use one gate valve on the sump (not fuge) outlet and just leave the plumbing the way it is. The ball valve already in place will limit (control) the amount of water that dumps to the sump while the system is running. Yes...when I shut it down a siphon will start from the fuge. But if I make sure the outlet pipe is just under the surface of the water, the siphon will break as the fuge empties into the sump.

The siphoning that you are talking about...did it happen when the system was running or when you shut it down?

Thinking about this is driving me nuts. This wouldn't be so bad to experiment with if it was a new setup. But I'm trying to make this conversion with a mature tank.

[PowermanKW]

Ya, you got it. And take that existing ball valve out, and put it on the line that takes off to the fuge. I can call you too. Just doing something now.

[Rhodes19]

Originally Posted by PowermanKW

Ok jeff....First off.... for dual overflows, it is necessary to tie the two overflows together. It is way to hard to balance both overflows individually.

So... you said in your PM the two overflow lines are 1.25". So you need to plumb the two overflow lines into a tee. The tee needs to be the two 1.25 inlets, with one 1.5" outlet. 1.5" out will flow plenty of water for both overflows. Then you put your 1.5" gate valve in for adjustment. One valve, both overflows will flow the same.

+1. I tied my duel 1" pvc overflow into a 1 1/2" pvc pipe into a 1 1/2" T and into a 1 1/2" gate valve on my 180. I'm happy with it.

[jdjeff58]

Ok...it makes sense now. I didn't quite get why we want to move the bypass vlv. I talked this over with some guys at work and now I get it. I won't actually move it, I'll just open it up. I'm going to just stick a new vlv in for the fuge. The only other thing that I was wondering about was starting this thing up for the first time. How hard is it to get the overflow levels dialed in while you are trying to get the desired flow through the fuge? What's a good starting point?

Powerman...when you had the siphoning, was it when you shut the pump off, or when it was running? Just curious.

[PowermanKW]

Originally Posted by jdjeff58

Ok...it makes sense now. I didn't quite get why we want to move the bypass vlv. I talked this over with some guys at work and now I get it. I won't actually move it, I'll just open it up. I'm going to just stick a new vlv in for the fuge. The only other thing that I was wondering about was starting this thing up for the first time. How hard is it to get the overflow levels dialed in while you are trying to get the desired flow through the fuge? What's a good starting point?

Powerman...when you had the siphoning, was it when you shut the pump off, or when it was running? Just curious.

Didn't see this... sorry.

Sounds good with the valve being left in place opened up.

It is not hard to get going. You want the regulation valve open wide to start and just start dialing it back. When you start restricting flow and the level in the overflow starts to rise you are in the ball park. You will have flow to the fuge with some air probably till the level in the overflow starts to rise and keep it out. Just set how much you want to the fuge, then adjust the level in the overflow with the regulation valve. Not too hard.

The only thing is to remember is if you change your flow to the fuge then you will have to readjust the overflow level. Now I just set my valve to the fuge and that is it. I never touch that. So the regulation valve gets a small tweak every now and then and thats it. Very rarely.

It was actually siphoning running on line. Just lowered my fuge level. It was quite unexpected. So I had to cut out the valve and place it downstream of the fuge tee and all was good. But ya... with the fuge being after the valve... well all you have is flowing water and two different levels of fluid and no air so the lower level will siphon out the till the levels are equal.

If you do not have the 1.5" gate valve yet... be sure to get threaded ends so you can reuse if necessary. That saved me $30 for that last redesign.

[jdjeff58]

Thanks P-Man....I'll be sure to post when I get it running. Still have to gather some more parts for the return line. But thanks again for your help!

[PowermanKW]

No sweat. LMK if you need anything else.

[tcwayne]

Wow, I finally got through this entire 6 year long thread. I have read every word of it and besides the siphon debate it was very informative. Cheers Herbie!

I recently moved into a 120 AGA from a 90 AGA and have done some extensive plumbing from the pump to a manifold that supplys water to my reactors and skimmer. I am running a reeflo dart and after reading this I wish I would have kept my Reeflo Blackfin 6000. Anyways the dart is just fine. I have everything done except I still have the two drains connected with flex hose and into a sock. I made my own dursos and it is very loud. When the wife says it's so noisy that she doesn't even want it in the living room anymore, I knew I had to do something and she loves my tank.

I have dual sumps ran from front to back on platforms and connected with bulkheads and 1 inch pipe. Should have gone with larger pipe to connect them but It's ok with the way it is now. The left side is the DSB and fuge seperated with two powerheads running for flow. I ran the plumbing from the pump to the left side but had lots of trouble keeping the two sumps water level the same. So now I have just two small pumps in there and the right side consists of the drains going into the sock and carbon reactor (yet to put back phosban reactor) and skimmer. This right side also has the dart connected that sits between the two sumps.

What I would like to do is incorporate the Herbie method but I have a question or two. Could I plumb the two 3/4 inch bulkheads together and then add the gate valve and leave the Dursos in as back up drains? Could the 3/4's handle all the flow from the dart?
Then I would of course go over the back with the returns from the dart.

Here's some pics. Since this 6 year old thread has so few pics, I'll try to keep up the pics rather than words. thanks in advance for your comments.

[jdjeff58]

TC...I saw that question asked before in this thread. The larger bulkhead (the one with the durso pipe) should be used for the main drain of the Herbie. If you think about it, it only makes sense to use the larger as primary and the smaller bulkhead as backup when you only have these 2 choices. I think widening the pipe in the overflow is a wise decision too.

[tcwayne]

Yup I realize that but if I crank up the dart all the way would I be in trouble if the one inch drains were to fail. In other words I guess I'll have to test it using the 3/4 inch and post results. I want max flow from the dart.

[jdjeff58]

Guess I misunderstood the question. Sounded like you wanted to use the 3/4" as primary and the 1" as the back up. This might be helpful to you.

http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml

[tcwayne]

Hey that's a nice chart. I'll be setting this up next weekend. I'll play with it until I get it right. I figure the dart that's 3600 gph with the manifold and breaks, should be putting somewhere like 2000 gph or more to the tank with the pumpside gate valve fully open. Using the 3/4 as primary and the 1 inch as e-drains may not handle that kind of flow. Testing will tell.

[jdjeff58]

Well, I got it up and running. There's a little bit of a mismatch in my overflow levels. I think it's because I'm restricting flow through the fuge. OR...I don't have a true "T" coming off the drainlines. But I got it pretty well dialed in now. I ended up putting a thin coat of silicone on the 1" pipe and just pushed it into the b-head. I'm pretty sure it doesn't leak. I watched it for a while with the system shut down. (The PVC glue I have doesn't work on the black plastic bulkheads. It doesn't even try to hold.) The only problem I ran into was my main drain pipes needed to be cut lower. They were swallowing bubbles from the spillover of the overflow teeth. I started at 16.5 inches and knocked 5 inches off them. I just wasn't sure how much my sump could handle on a loss of power so I started a little long.

Since I wanted to use 1.25 pipe inside the overflows (I adapted up on both drains.), I was lucky enough to be able to use the 2 screens from both the dursos. They fit beautifully over 1.25 pipe. I just need to add screens to the back ups.

But what a major difference with a sump running smooth as silk. Ya gotta luv it. I appreciate your help with this p-man. Thanks again!

[jdjeff58]

Looks like the mismatch in my 2 overflow levels was due to the teeth not being completely cleaned out. Algae and coralline appear to have a critical affect on the levels in the overflow box.