Weeds

[Scrubber_steve]

Yes, ocassionally, bit its just easier to feed nori.

I've thought about putting the scrubber screen into the tank when it harvest time & letting the fish eat it that way. I'll have to try that some time.

[Michael Hoaster]

I had an atlantic blue tang in v1, named Mr Zippy. I wanted to see if my macro-overgrown tank could feed him sustainably. It was very nice to have a break from pruning, and his pruning looked better than mine. But in six months or so, my macros were almost wiped out. I removed him and they recovered.

Lately, I've been considering something similar. My wife would like a bigger, easier to see fish. I've been looking at fish that are more detrivore than algaevore, like the ctenochaetus tangs and Herald's angel. Of course then I worry that I may not have enough detritus production to feed the fish and my sea cucumber, Seymour.

The White Tail Bristletooth Tang (Ctenochaetus flavicauda), would be a gorgeous, though expensive specimen. Interestingly, they too start out as yellow juveniles. The Herald's Angel is much more affordable, and a gorgeous yellow, but maybe more risky to macros. I'll keep looking.

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

I had an atlantic blue tang in v1, named Mr Zippy. I wanted to see if my macro-overgrown tank could feed him sustainably. It was very nice to have a break from pruning, and his pruning looked better than mine. But in six months or so, my macros were almost wiped out. I removed him and they recovered.

what if you just supplemented its diet with nori or some other algae external from the display?

[Michael Hoaster]

In theory that should work. Mr Zippy wouldn't eat anything I added. He was quite content with my macros. Didn't touch the grasses though.

My Ulva intestinalis came today. My first order with RUSalty. The plant was well-packaged and bigger than I expected. And it was attached to a small rock, just as advertised. aquaculturenurseryfarms.com

I placed it on top of the back wall, in the top left corner. A few small bits came loose so I placed them around. I think it's going to be a nice addition! It's great to finally get three new plants I've been waiting months to get. The codium and tufted joint algae are doing well so far.

I'm looking forward to getting most of the seagrass bed covered with ground cover plants, providing great structure for pods 'n stuff. I may even try some mysids. With enough cover, they might be able to maintain a population. That would be sweet!

[Michael Hoaster]

Well my new plant disappeared. Sometimes my snails just devour new plants. I figured that's what happened, but I found several blades around the tank, so I'm not sure. Hopefully, what I have left will survive and grow. Kind of a bummer but we'll see.

[Scrubber_steve]

Your Ulva Intestinalis ?

That's a bummer

[Michael Hoaster]

Yep, the ulva intestinalis. Newly added plants have about a 50/50 chance of survival in my tank, thanks to the snails. As I said there are a few blades left, so there's hope. The Ulvas are relished by most all algaevores.

[Scrubber_steve]

That's nature.

[Michael Hoaster]

"That's nature", ha ha! Good one Steve.

[Michael Hoaster]

I immediately assumed the snails (mini strombus) decimated my new ulva intestinalis plant. After watching the tank today, I have doubts. Actually, one of the tuxedo damsels, Papillon demonstrated why she should be considered a suspect. She patrols and picks at a spot on the back wall. When a plant sticks out more than she likes, she removes it. Doesn't even eat it. I could easily see her plucking each blade off the rock. Also the blades were strewn about, not eaten. Guilty!

[vlangel]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

I immediately assumed the snails (mini strombus) decimated my new ulva intestinalis plant. After watching the tank today, I have doubts. Actually, one of the tuxedo damsels, Papillon demonstrated why she should be considered a suspect. She patrols and picks at a spot on the back wall. When a plant sticks out more than she likes, she removes it. Doesn't even eat it. I could easily see her plucking each blade off the rock. Also the blades were strewn about, not eaten. Guilty!

Shame on Papillon! Bad fish!!!

[Scrubber_steve]

Papillon may need to be sent to Devil's Island?

[Michael Hoaster]

It's like this thing writes itself!

[Michael Hoaster]

A little algae export today as usual. I finally found out the name of my petticoat algae - Caulerpa verticillata. I would never have guessed it was a caulerpa! It looks much more like a mermaid's wineglass to me. Anyways, mystery solved.

I'm getting a good crop of greens going. Seagrasses look good too. Still working on the ground cover plants.

Watching plants grow!

[ThePurple12]

Hey Michael, I'm in need of your wisdom! Any idea why the leaves of my Johnson's grass that were thriving (vibrant green, growing and spreading rapidly) just a week or two ago are turning red or transparent?

[Michael Hoaster]

Hey ThePurple12! While I have no experience with Johnson's Grass, I'd like to help. Since I know nothing about your setup, I'll cover the basics to start.

Have you got the Big 3 covered (Carbon/Nitrogen/Phosphorous - 550/40/1)?

Phosphate should be fine, assuming you have fish and feed them. Nitrogen should be supplied with either Nitrate (Potassium Nitrate, aka stump remover-safer) or ammonia (riskier). Carbon is the biggest one, and almost universally ignored. CO2 injection, or alkalinity boosting for bicarbonates are two recommended methods. Then there are the trace elements. These are used much less, but run out quickly in closed systems like aquariums. Again fish food and also water changes will take care of these. Iron is the biggee of these, and a fresh water plant iron supplement will help there.

What's your substrate looking like? Got any dirt or mud in there? Since seagrasses are higher plants, unlike macros, they have dedicated roots that love real dirt, just like house plants. A good, dirty sand bed can make dosing much less needed.

Let me know if you have questions, ideas, concerns. Good luck with them!

[ThePurple12]

Thanks. I have fish, but my nitrates are below 1 probably due to my algae turf scrubber. I'll try feeding more to raise nitrates. I do 10% water changes every two weeks.

Substrate is fine sand mixed with aragonite sand, and just a little bit of Floridapets mud. Do you think those freshwater plant osmocote root tabs would help?

[Michael Hoaster]

If you are trying to grow plants, a turf scrubber is not helpful. It competes with them for nutrients. You don't need it. The (display) plants, along with nitrifying bacteria are the filter.

If you are trying to combine a reef with plants, you walk a tightrope of trying to satisfy the low nutrient needs of corals with the high nutrient needs of plants. It's challenging but can be done. Check out "Dawn's Seahorse Garden", here in the macro section. She has high nutrient-tolerant corals with low nutrient-tolerant plants. It works.

I have tried various root tabs with unclear results. With my slow-growing manatee grass, it's hard to know what helps and what doesn't. Give those a try and let us know.

It would really help if I knew more about your tank. I didn't see a tank thread for you. Maybe you should start one and elaborate on your setup. If I knew more specifics I could be more helpful.

[ThePurple12]

Good point about the ATS. I'll try decreasing its photoperiod to a few hours (so the algae on it doesn't die) and see if the seagrass comes back. I'll probably remove it once the seagrass starts taking over.

My tank is 125 gallons with a 20g sump with refugium and algae scrubber. I'm aiming for half reef, half seagrass bed. The reef section has lots of SPS and LPS, plus 5 BTAs, and the seagrass section has shoal and Johnson's grass. Fish are:

2 ocellaris clownfish
bicolor blenny
bluestripe pipefish
2 watchman gobies
engineer goby
cleaner wrasse

Nitrate is 1ppm, phosphate undetectable. I feed every other day, but I'm going to try once a day.

[vlangel]

Originally Posted by ThePurple12

Good point about the ATS. I'll try decreasing its photoperiod to a few hours (so the algae on it doesn't die) and see if the seagrass comes back. I'll probably remove it once the seagrass starts taking over.

My tank is 125 gallons with a 20g sump with refugium and algae scrubber. I'm aiming for half reef, half seagrass bed. The reef section has lots of SPS and LPS, plus 5 BTAs, and the seagrass section has shoal and Johnson's grass. Fish are:

2 ocellaris clownfish
bicolor blenny
bluestripe pipefish
2 watchman gobies
engineer goby
cleaner wrasse

Nitrate is 1ppm, phosphate undetectable. I feed every other day, but I'm going to try once a day.

I feed my tank 2Xs a day so that the macro algae get enough nutrients and I do not have any scrubbers or ATS. The rock, sand, coral and macro algae are My filters. My nitrates are closer to 20ppm when I have them where I want them but
have had them as high as 30 without detriment to the coral. SPS may be more finicky except sturdy ones like birdsnest and such.

[Michael Hoaster]

Those nutrient levels are perhaps too low, even for sps corals, so very challenging for plants. Seagrasses can flourish in lower nutrients, but not that low. I'd try to nudge those nutrient levels up to the higher accepted ranges for your corals. That's the tightrope.

I would definitely increase the fish feeding. That'll help get nitrate and phosphate up a little. For carbon, plants prefer CO2, so if you have a calcium reactor you're good. If not, typical reef tank alkalinity levels should provide enough bicarbonates for them to convert to CO2.

What you're doing is challenging, but I think it can be done, with a few changes. Right now, I think you are a little too reef oriented. Bump up those nutrients a touch. And remove the competition - the scrubber and refugium. The fast growing algae on scrubbers will always outcompete grasses for nutrients.

[ThePurple12]

I'll definitely feed more and remove the ATS, which is actually the light source for the refugium. I actually wasn't trying to have such low nitrate levels. I think the corals will be fine with the increased nitrate.

Thanks both of you for the help, I'm a big fan of both of your tanks!

[Michael Hoaster]

My pleasure! I'm stoked to see another seagrass keeper. Good luck! Consider starting a thread. I'd love to see pics and progress.

[vlangel]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

My pleasure! I'm stoked to see another seagrass keeper. Good luck! Consider starting a thread. I'd love to see pics and progress.

Me too!

[ThePurple12]

Maybe I will start a thread. Hmm...