NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[das75]

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

das75, Looks like a nice setup. Could you do a test for me? Open the flow to the sump all the way. Does this cause the fuge to be siphoned out? Just trying to decide the root cause of what I think PowerMan and some others may have reported.

With the valve all the way open it will siphon back from the fuge, draw air, fill a bit, siphon again.

Don't think a venturi effect just a regular old siphon as the fuge is higher than the sump. Effectively no flow to the fuge as all the water simple drops through the tee into the sump (why I put the diverter valve on the downward leg to begin with), but enough does trickle into the fuge to reestablish the siphon.

[TheFishMan65]

Thanks, so it appear ths solutions to to siphoning the fuge is to force more water flow into it. Which sort of makes sense.

[schabiazabi]

I just found out the type of overflow I want for my new tank is called Herbie overflow. Since I learned about reef tanks I could not stop thinking why the overflow box is inside, why not have it on the outside. Now I know it's done, but I have few questions.

1. How good is this overflow?
2. Is it quite?
3. What is the best method to design and calculate for this Herbie type of overflow? Should I just reread the entire thread?
4. Are there any manufacturers that build acrylic tanks with the Herbie overflows ready?

[das75]

Originally Posted by schabiazabi

I just found out the type of overflow I want for my new tank is called Herbie overflow. Since I learned about reef tanks I could not stop thinking why the overflow box is inside, why not have it on the outside. Now I know it's done, but I have few questions.

1. How good is this overflow?
2. Is it quite?
3. What is the best method to design and calculate for this Herbie type of overflow? Should I just reread the entire thread?
4. Are there any manufacturers that build acrylic tanks with the Herbie overflows ready?

1. I think excellent
2. Totally silent, I'm moving 1000gph, seen others doing 2000gph again silent
3. figure the amount of flow you want and go back from there. Here's Beananimal's calculator and you'll see a siphon can flow a amazing amount more than a straight drain with the same pipe size
4. no idea

Few other points
-first Herbie I ever seen in person was using external overflow boxes, they're out there
-one reason so quiet is no air, reason why I switched from Dursos was gurgling in the drain lines and bubbling in the sump. Dursos can be very quiet up top but no getting around the noise from the air in the lines
-realize this the Herbie thread but similar thread to chk is for a Beananimal drain. Read that might have a bigger sweet spot, though I don't have a any issues with my Herbie but also using a ATO

[TheFishMan65]

Any tank with 2 holes in the bottom can be a Herbie. Acrylic you could just drill your own.

The problem with external is that sometimes the siphon from tank to external box does not keep up. If the head pressure from tank to external is not enough you will pump water into the tank faster than it can exit. Well into the external box. It will exit onto the floor. I have heard of them working and not. But never seen one in person to actually play and see where the problems are. So just test every possibility you can think of - good advice on any drain system IMHO.

[das75]

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

The problem with external is that sometimes the siphon from tank to external box does not keep up. If the head pressure from tank to external is not enough you will pump water into the tank faster than it can exit. Well into the external box. It will exit onto the floor. I have heard of them working and not. But never seen one in person to actually play and see where the problems are. So just test every possibility you can think of - good advice on any drain system IMHO.

If going with an external would advise against using a siphon to feed the overflow chamber but just simply notch the tank.

[TheFishMan65]

Look at the beananimal first post of numberous breaks. He did a Calfo stye and if you can implement something like that I think you would be happy. One of the reasons for doing this is the back up drain, but if the external design causes risk then maybe it is not best. I have been able to play with the external design to give a solid opinion - only read enough to make people think

[schabiazabi]

-first Herbie I ever seen in person was using external overflow boxes, they're out there

If going with an external would advise against using a siphon to feed the overflow chamber but just simply notch the tank.

Any tank with 2 holes in the bottom can be a Herbie.

The problem with external is that sometimes the siphon from tank to external box does not keep up.

Looking at the four quotes above looks like I did not understand what the Herbie system really is. I assumed the notches in the back tank wall and the box/boxes on the outside is the Herbie style of an overflow.

From what you're saying here it seems Herbie is a system where the overflow box has two pipes with the main pipe under water eliminating noise.

The system I want is with the overflow boxes to be on the outside with the water being skimmed through notches. In the outside box I would use the Herbie two pipe system I'm guessing. No syphon at all anywhere.

Tell me is my understanding is correct. I'm super new to this.

[TheFishMan65]

The herbie system requires a relatively large distance between the two pipes. Is this a new tank. I think it is. So you should read about the BeanAnimal design. I think you will find it is more suited for your needs.

[schabiazabi]

BeanAnimal system to me is the worst out of all. I do not want anything in my tank. I want everything hidden.

Yes, it will be a new tank. Possibly glass if I can do the notches in the glass. Or a single ***** notch/dip along the back wall. I need to research what is better and why notches were invented in the first place. I'm assuming they are there to stop fish from going over.

[TheFishMan65]

If you have enough length for your flow notches are not needed.

AlthoughI don't have a Bean System I believe I understand if fairly well. IMHO the whole thing could be hidden behind the tank. I don't think we should hi-jack this thread discussing that, but if you would like start a new thread or go the BAA thread I would be happy to join you there and discuss it. Just PM the thread.

[schabiazabi]

I did not want to hijack anything. Sorry.
I assumed this was a Herbie overflow thread, that's why I asked Herbie questions.

[TheFishMan65]

Misunderstanding - I only meant if you want to discuss a hidden BA design.

[das75]

Originally Posted by schabiazabi

Looking at the four quotes above looks like I did not understand what the Herbie system really is. I assumed the notches in the back tank wall and the box/boxes on the outside is the Herbie style of an overflow.

From what you're saying here it seems Herbie is a system where the overflow box has two pipes with the main pipe under water eliminating noise.

The system I want is with the overflow boxes to be on the outside with the water being skimmed through notches. In the outside box I would use the Herbie two pipe system I'm guessing. No syphon at all anywhere.

Tell me is my understanding is correct. I'm super new to this.

You're right, the "Herbie" is basically just the configuration of the drain. Can be as simple as 2 bulkheads drilled into the bottom of a tank (not even using a overflow chamber) with the standpipes being different heights. The lower one, primary has a gate valve to regulate flow, the higher one being the emergency or backup.

Have seen a Herbie used in an external overflow (tank notched, straight lip) 1" primary and secondary, 1000gph and chamber wasn't much bigger than 3x12" and was only that wide for the surface skimming (standpipes themselves where right side by side). Not to side track to much but for the weir, you don't need a whole series of small notches but can be one cut out. If worried about something going over into the overflow, can just use egg-crating as a guard.

Do see the Herbie primary drain called a siphon, but the siphon I was advising against is a U-tube type siphon to feed an external overflow.

[puggsli1]

What do you guys think about my proposed plumbing plan? Will it work out or do I need the gate valve before the tee?


I also plan to add some unions, and a check valve on the return with a ball valve.

[das75]

not positive if the valve needs to go before the tee but think would be a lot more involved adjusting 2 valves to get the balance than just one. Was the reason I placed my gate before the Tee and then able just to use a ball valve to control amount of flow to my fuge.

[TheFishMan65]

I woulld think it would work. Set the flow rate to the fuge and then use the second to get the siphon going. It my slightly change the fuge rate, but I wouldn't think it would be too hard to tune.

[afgun]

Originally Posted by puggsli1

What do you guys think about my proposed plumbing plan? Will it work out or do I need the gate valve before the tee?

I also plan to add some unions, and a check valve on the return with a ball valve.

I am successfully using your design with 2x gate valves, one after each side of the tee. That said, I'm getting critters (snails, crabs) caught in the valves causing my flow to get unbalanced and start cycling through startup mode.

I'm going to be adding some screening this weekend to keep the critters from entering the pipes at all.

[das75]

Originally Posted by afgun

That said, I'm getting critters (snails, crabs) caught in the valves causing my flow to get unbalanced and start cycling through startup mode.

I'm going to be adding some screening this weekend to keep the critters from entering the pipes at all.

good comment. I notice small snails in my filter socks, guessing with a single gate, the opening is large enough they just pass through (if was running 2 valves the opening in each would be narrower).

Screening the primary only?

[das75]

...

[afgun]

Originally Posted by das75

good comment. I notice small snails in my filter socks, guessing with a single gate, the opening is large enough they just pass through (if was running 2 valves the opening in each would be narrower).

Screening the primary only?

I screened both. A little PVC, chopping the ends off of an elbow, and some bird netting:



Inserted the in the bottom of the siphon and durso elbows. This morning there was a snail stuck on the siphon screen; the restricted flow was causing it to cycle through startup mode. Unfortunately due to my canopy and the size of the weir, it's awfully difficult to get my hand in there to clean things out... but a little creative bending of our net and I was able to sweep the snail out of the way after shutting down the main pump.

[banzai75x]

I have a 1.5" hole and 1" hole in my overflow. I'd like to do the Herbie. Should I use the 1.5" as the main overflow and the 1" as my emergency? Or the other way around?

I plan on using a Tunze Silence 1073.040 as my return pump.

[das75]

^ either one would be able to keep up with your pump.

[Rhodes19]

Originally Posted by afgun

I screened both. A little PVC, chopping the ends off of an elbow, and some bird netting:



Inserted the in the bottom of the siphon and durso elbows. This morning there was a snail stuck on the siphon screen; the restricted flow was causing it to cycle through startup mode. Unfortunately due to my canopy and the size of the weir, it's awfully difficult to get my hand in there to clean things out... but a little creative bending of our net and I was able to sweep the snail out of the way after shutting down the main pump.

Now that's a neat idea.

[Rhodes19]

Originally Posted by banzai75x

I have a 1.5" hole and 1" hole in my overflow. I'd like to do the Herbie. Should I use the 1.5" as the main overflow and the 1" as my emergency? Or the other way around?

I plan on using a Tunze Silence 1073.040 as my return pump.

I'd go with the 1.5" hole as the main overflow. It can give you more flexibility if you upgrade your return pump.