SPS pests and treatment options - Page 6

fishdoc11 · 12/20/2010, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nadking

I have been having trouble keeping sps in general, montis and acroporas since about 6 months ago. Before that point, everything was going well. I am not sure if I have a predator i.e., AEFW, or monti eating nudis, red bugs etc. I have looked pretty closely and not been able to identify anything, but I have yet to look microscopically. I am down to 1 large monti cap, 1 small monti cap, and 2 acro frags. My question is, will these pests die without a host to eat? I am tempted to just rid my tank of sps completely for a few months until things work themselves out.

Yes they will die without a host. The general thinking, at least from a few years ago, is that 6 weeks is long enough for the Acro predators but I would go longer. I would also double check on the monti eating nudis, can't remember on those. Maybe someone else will chime in.

hth, Chris

Dave71 · 12/21/2010, 12:21 PM

To answer the question, yes they will die without a host.

That said, I would suggest you let us know what the symptoms are.

Monti eating nudis will only eat montis, so they are not the culprit for your acros.

Red bugs will not go after monti, so that is not the culprit for monti.

AEFW to the best of my knowledge stick to Acros as well.

So either you have multiple predators, or more than likely, the issue is not a predator at all.

Usually you will spot the monti eating nudi, once you know what to look for. Especially if you look on the underside of any monti caps you may have. They love monti caps, and if you have them, you are sure to see them on the underside of your monti caps.

When taking the coral out of the water, they flatten to the coral, but you should still be able to spot them.

nadking · 12/21/2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave71

To answer the question, yes they will die without a host.

That said, I would suggest you let us know what the symptoms are.

Monti eating nudis will only eat montis, so they are not the culprit for your acros.

Red bugs will not go after monti, so that is not the culprit for monti.

AEFW to the best of my knowledge stick to Acros as well.

So either you have multiple predators, or more than likely, the issue is not a predator at all.

Usually you will spot the monti eating nudi, once you know what to look for. Especially if you look on the underside of any monti caps you may have. They love monti caps, and if you have them, you are sure to see them on the underside of your monti caps.

When taking the coral out of the water, they flatten to the coral, but you should still be able to spot them.

I did notice some white spots on the underside of my large monti cap when I was taking it out. I think that I either have multiple predators or a few predators stressing out my corals and leading to STN in other things. That being said I completely rid my tank of sps last night, and epoxied over the dead encrusting caps that were stuck to my largest pieces of rock to completely kill them. I plan on leaving it this way for a few months, and enjoying the "easier" side of the hobby, lps and softies in the mean time. Thanks for the help!

buzzy · 12/21/2010, 03:30 PM

has anyone used the Fauna Marin pest control for AEFW's with good success? saw a video on it and seem's to work well

acesq · 12/22/2010, 10:41 AM

I have just discovered that I have an infestation of nudibranchs on three acropora colonies. They are a pale brown in color - not white like the monti eating flatworks; with frilled appendages -- not smooth like AEFW. I have twice dipped them with Coral RX and that seemed to dislodge the nudis. I can't tell if it also killed them, but it appears that it did. The second time I dipped there were fewer nudis, but because two of the colonies are decent sized and very dense, I'm sure there are eggs in there that I couldn't scrape off and new nudis will hatch soon. I'm hoping to get this under control with the Coral RX, but may have to try potassium permanganate as suggested Eric Broneman in this article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/eb/index.php

Anybody else have experience with Acro eating nudi's?

stevejrnc · 01/02/2011, 11:47 PM

So if you where to dip acros in Tlf revive
and also give them a scrubing with a tooth bush wouldn't that be effective
don't have Any personal experiance with any pest
yet knock on wood

Jamesus · 02/01/2011, 01:44 PM

I have Montipora Eating Nudibranch. they have killed 95% of my montis. If they run out of montis to eat will they die off? If not, how to I treat the tank?

fishdoc11 · 02/01/2011, 01:50 PM

My understanding is that they will die off eventualy but that could take months (maybe some one with first hand experience will chime in). There is nothing you can treat the whole tank with to get rid of them as far as a medication.

Dave71 · 02/03/2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesus

I have Montipora Eating Nudibranch. they have killed 95% of my montis. If they run out of montis to eat will they die off? If not, how to I treat the tank?

Yes they will die off. They seem to have approx. a 21 day cycle from hatch to reproductive adult.

I did not see mine hatch so some of that time may have been egg gestation as well.

Levamisole was effective in reducing the population for a tank treatment, but it did not provide the 100% kill rate for me.

I would say you have to quarantine the montis. I set up a quarantine and recovery tank. Once I felt the monti was nudi free, I moved from quarantine to recovery. Then continued to watch it for 21 days.

I saved some of my monti's this way, but still lost several.

If I was to do it again, I would have fragged each one and put it in recovery tank after dip. Would have left remaining colonies in quarantine. You are more likely to save the coral as a frag.

Once I could move frag from recovery back to DT, I would have moved nudi free colonies to recovery....and so on.

It is a real PITA.

BTW - I tried scraping eggs, which worked at reducing the population, but was ineffective as a treatment.

If I had to do it again:

Definitely would use Levamisole again as a weekly dip.

Remove 100% water out of quarantine into holding tub, and add Levamisole with powerhead and heater.

Give quarantine a good cleaning with fresh water. Refill with fresh saltwater, and take corals from dosed old water, and put back in quarantine with fresh saltwater.

Repeat each week.

When you do not spot any nudis for 3 weeks, put in recovery. Observe for additional 3 weeks in recovery tank, then put in DT.

Continue until you pull your hair out...or you are nudi free....whichever comes first.

Good Luck!!!

dzhuo · 03/22/2011, 03:53 PM

Bring a semi-old thread back since I think I have RB.

Few stupid questions:

1. Are all interceptor tablets pretty much the same size? ie, when you guys say 1 tablet, there is only one size?

2. Do you turn on the skimmer after treatment? For example, after a 12 hours bath but before the next treatment, should I turn on my skimmer? Or should I leave the skimmer completely off for the whole 3 treatment length?

3. Do you do water change after each treatment or just wait until the last treatment and then do a water change?

Dave71 · 03/24/2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzhuo

Bring a semi-old thread back since I think I have RB.

Few stupid questions:

1. Are all interceptor tablets pretty much the same size? ie, when you guys say 1 tablet, there is only one size?

2. Do you turn on the skimmer after treatment? For example, after a 12 hours bath but before the next treatment, should I turn on my skimmer? Or should I leave the skimmer completely off for the whole 3 treatment length?

3. Do you do water change after each treatment or just wait until the last treatment and then do a water change?

1. No - The tablet for large dogs (51-100lbs) is the one commonly referred to. You would have to make adjustments to the dosing with a smaller tablet.

2. After each treatment turn skimmer back on.

3. After each treatment.

Good Luck!!

dzhuo · 03/25/2011, 12:47 AM

Thx Dave!

I started the treatment tonight. My tank is roughly 170g total water volume so I used 80% of one 32mg pill. The skimmer and carbon reactor are both turned off prior the treatment. There is no other filtration (other than LR and sand) running. It has been 2 hours and I still notice normal number of pods on the sump glass. Some of them are moving and others are stationary.

1. Is 2 hours too short to kill the pods?
2. Possible I didn't use enough pill? I was told 1 32mg pill treats 300g of water so I figure 80% of 1 pill should be enough for 170g. Do you guys think this will be OK?
3. I also take a very close look of the RB (before main light turns off) but I couldn't confirm exactly if these are RB or not. I didn't notice the classic red dot or red tail of RB. Is that possible I have misidentify normal pods (that happen to live in the acro) as RB?

fishdoc11 · 03/25/2011, 05:37 AM

Did you use 32 mg by weight or dosage? After 2 hours you might not notice much dying off yet. When I treated years ago my shrimp didn't die until the second treatment.

fishdoc11 · 03/25/2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave71

Yes they will die off. They seem to have approx. a 21 day cycle from hatch to reproductive adult.

I did not see mine hatch so some of that time may have been egg gestation as well.

Levamisole was effective in reducing the population for a tank treatment, but it did not provide the 100% kill rate for me.

I would say you have to quarantine the montis. I set up a quarantine and recovery tank. Once I felt the monti was nudi free, I moved from quarantine to recovery. Then continued to watch it for 21 days.

I saved some of my monti's this way, but still lost several.

If I was to do it again, I would have fragged each one and put it in recovery tank after dip. Would have left remaining colonies in quarantine. You are more likely to save the coral as a frag.

Once I could move frag from recovery back to DT, I would have moved nudi free colonies to recovery....and so on.

It is a real PITA.

BTW - I tried scraping eggs, which worked at reducing the population, but was ineffective as a treatment.

If I had to do it again:

Definitely would use Levamisole again as a weekly dip.

Remove 100% water out of quarantine into holding tub, and add Levamisole with powerhead and heater.

Give quarantine a good cleaning with fresh water. Refill with fresh saltwater, and take corals from dosed old water, and put back in quarantine with fresh saltwater.

Repeat each week.

When you do not spot any nudis for 3 weeks, put in recovery. Observe for additional 3 weeks in recovery tank, then put in DT.

Continue until you pull your hair out...or you are nudi free....whichever comes first.

Good Luck!!!

Is levamisole something people have been using for Monti eatig nudies? I was just aware that this was effective for AEFWs.

dzhuo · 03/25/2011, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishdoc11

Did you use 32 mg by weight or dosage?

I took the pill and crashed it into a powdery form. I then took 80% of the powder and mix it in a small cup of tank water. After lights out, I just pour the solution into the tank. Would this be enough pill?

I take a quick look at the sump this morning (roughly 10 hours now) and I still see pods crawling around on the glass. I hope the RBs aren't that strong. I have turned the skimmer back on but leave the carbon reactor off line.

Dave71 · 03/25/2011, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishdoc11

Is levamisole something people have been using for Monti eatig nudies? I was just aware that this was effective for AEFWs.

I know several reefers who have used it yes.

Here is a Borneman article discussing it as well.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/eb/index.php

Dave71 · 03/25/2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzhuo

I took the pill and crashed it into a powdery form. I then took 80% of the powder and mix it in a small cup of tank water. After lights out, I just pour the solution into the tank. Would this be enough pill?

I take a quick look at the sump this morning (roughly 10 hours now) and I still see pods crawling around on the glass. I hope the RBs aren't that strong. I have turned the skimmer back on but leave the carbon reactor off line.

I would suggest you go to this link and verify you are using the right product.

http://www.melevsreef.com/redbugs.html

If you are, then I would check expiration dates.

dzhuo · 03/25/2011, 02:14 PM

Yes it looks exactly like that packaging. It expires on 2013; not even close. Any other thoughts? FYI. I will provide another update tonight but this morning even without light, I can clearly see pods crawling on the sump glass.

Dave71 · 03/25/2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzhuo

Yes it looks exactly like that packaging. It expires on 2013; not even close. Any other thoughts? FYI. I will provide another update tonight but this morning even without light, I can clearly see pods crawling on the sump glass.

More importantly, how are the red bugs looking? You may also want to do a dip outside the tank for at least a test. This assumes it is feasible given size of corals.

You can perform tests with higher dosing using smaller volumes of water.

dzhuo · 03/25/2011, 03:00 PM

Problem is RB is so freaking small, it's hard to notice. If I don't see any today, it might be because they are all dead or that I have missed them. As I mentioned earlier, I saw a few before the treatment when lights are on so I will have to look closely tonight when I get home. I think the fact that I still have many pods on the glass crawling could be a pretty good indication that maybe the RB has survived as well. If that's the case:

1. It sucks.
2. I have no idea how they survive.

Maybe a second treatment will get them?

dzhuo · 03/25/2011, 03:02 PM

Btw, if all my corals are easily removable, I would have done this. Takes a few minutes instead of days.

Dave71 · 03/25/2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzhuo

Btw, if all my corals are easily removable, I would have done this. Takes a few minutes instead of days.

The intent of me mentioning a test, was because you do not seem clear if you even have red bugs.

If you do have red bugs you may want to have an opportunity to test dosage levels on a single/few corals that you would later apply to the full tank.

If you are trying to determine if you have red bugs, then I would take a coral out of the tank and use a magnifying glass.

There are also optical products that would allow you to inspect from a distance, but the ones I have found are more expensive.

dzhuo · 03/25/2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave71

The intent of me mentioning a test, was because you do not seem clear if you even have red bugs.

That wasn't my confusion.

I thought interceptor is suppose to kill most pods regardless whether it's actually RB or not. My observation (limited because no light) so far is I still see many pods active this morning after a 10 hours bath. This leads me to believe either I didn't use enough interceptor or even 10 hours wasn't enough. I am concern whether I use the correct dosage.

Did you notice a majority of your pods killed when treating RB?

Dave71 · 03/25/2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzhuo

That wasn't my confusion.

I thought interceptor is suppose to kill most pods regardless whether it's actually RB or not. My observation (limited because no light) so far is I still see many pods active this morning after a 10 hours bath. This leads me to believe either I didn't use enough interceptor or even 10 hours wasn't enough. I am concern whether I use the correct dosage.

Did you notice a majority of your pods killed when treating RB?

That is my concern as well. Which is why I was asking if it was the same product or was expired.

The beginning impact was noticible quickly, but I do not know what you have in the tank you are treating.

For example, I could see pods floating up from my LR within less than an hour.

I could also see mini brittle stars floating.

You are treating the tank with the lights out, which leaves you at a disadvantage for observation.

dzhuo · 03/25/2011, 06:34 PM

Here are a couple pictures of the interceptor with expiration date.

The lights are on so I have better look at the tank. So far, a few observations:

1. I didn't see any RB or pods on the acros. Polyp extension is similar before treatment; maybe just a bit better.

2. One type of pods are entirely gone while another type doesn't seem to be affected at all. For example, I didn't notice a single pod of these:

3. All barnacles which are hosted in the SPS are dead. This:

4. 80% to 90% of my cerith snails are dead. Not sure about the others yet.

5. Fish doesn't seem to be affected. Zoas doesn't seem to be affected.

12/21/2010, 12:21 PM	#127
Dave71 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 273	To answer the question, yes they will die without a host. That said, I would suggest you let us know what the symptoms are. Monti eating nudis will only eat montis, so they are not the culprit for your acros. Red bugs will not go after monti, so that is not the culprit for monti. AEFW to the best of my knowledge stick to Acros as well. So either you have multiple predators, or more than likely, the issue is not a predator at all. Usually you will spot the monti eating nudi, once you know what to look for. Especially if you look on the underside of any monti caps you may have. They love monti caps, and if you have them, you are sure to see them on the underside of your monti caps. When taking the coral out of the water, they flatten to the coral, but you should still be able to spot them. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 60 Gallon Mixed Reef

12/22/2010, 10:41 AM	#130
acesq Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Calabasas, CA Posts: 1,501	I have just discovered that I have an infestation of nudibranchs on three acropora colonies. They are a pale brown in color - not white like the monti eating flatworks; with frilled appendages -- not smooth like AEFW. I have twice dipped them with Coral RX and that seemed to dislodge the nudis. I can't tell if it also killed them, but it appears that it did. The second time I dipped there were fewer nudis, but because two of the colonies are decent sized and very dense, I'm sure there are eggs in there that I couldn't scrape off and new nudis will hatch soon. I'm hoping to get this under control with the Coral RX, but may have to try potassium permanganate as suggested Eric Broneman in this article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/eb/index.php Anybody else have experience with Acro eating nudi's? __________________ Current tank: 340g AGE peninsula

02/01/2011, 01:50 PM	#133
fishdoc11 catch and release Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Old Hickory,TN Posts: 13,237	My understanding is that they will die off eventualy but that could take months (maybe some one with first hand experience will chime in). There is nothing you can treat the whole tank with to get rid of them as far as a medication. __________________ "Try to learn something about everything and everything about something" -- Thomas H. Huxley Current Tank Info: 70 gallon mixed reef

03/25/2011, 05:37 AM	#138
fishdoc11 catch and release Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Old Hickory,TN Posts: 13,237	Did you use 32 mg by weight or dosage? After 2 hours you might not notice much dying off yet. When I treated years ago my shrimp didn't die until the second treatment. __________________ "Try to learn something about everything and everything about something" -- Thomas H. Huxley Current Tank Info: 70 gallon mixed reef

03/25/2011, 06:34 PM	#150
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	Here are a couple pictures of the interceptor with expiration date. The lights are on so I have better look at the tank. So far, a few observations: 1. I didn't see any RB or pods on the acros. Polyp extension is similar before treatment; maybe just a bit better. 2. One type of pods are entirely gone while another type doesn't seem to be affected at all. For example, I didn't notice a single pod of these: 3. All barnacles which are hosted in the SPS are dead. This: 4. 80% to 90% of my cerith snails are dead. Not sure about the others yet. 5. Fish doesn't seem to be affected. Zoas doesn't seem to be affected. __________________ One of the most frustrating thing about this hobby? The blind leading the blind.

12/21/2010, 03:30 PM	#129
buzzy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Zealand Posts: 253	has anyone used the Fauna Marin pest control for AEFW's with good success? saw a video on it and seem's to work well

01/02/2011, 11:47 PM	#131
stevejrnc Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hollywood FL Posts: 439	So if you where to dip acros in Tlf revive and also give them a scrubing with a tooth bush wouldn't that be effective don't have Any personal experiance with any pest yet knock on wood

02/01/2011, 01:44 PM	#132
Jamesus Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 168	I have Montipora Eating Nudibranch. they have killed 95% of my montis. If they run out of montis to eat will they die off? If not, how to I treat the tank?

03/22/2011, 03:53 PM	#135
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	Bring a semi-old thread back since I think I have RB. Few stupid questions: 1. Are all interceptor tablets pretty much the same size? ie, when you guys say 1 tablet, there is only one size? 2. Do you turn on the skimmer after treatment? For example, after a 12 hours bath but before the next treatment, should I turn on my skimmer? Or should I leave the skimmer completely off for the whole 3 treatment length? 3. Do you do water change after each treatment or just wait until the last treatment and then do a water change?

03/25/2011, 12:47 AM	#137
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	Thx Dave! I started the treatment tonight. My tank is roughly 170g total water volume so I used 80% of one 32mg pill. The skimmer and carbon reactor are both turned off prior the treatment. There is no other filtration (other than LR and sand) running. It has been 2 hours and I still notice normal number of pods on the sump glass. Some of them are moving and others are stationary. 1. Is 2 hours too short to kill the pods? 2. Possible I didn't use enough pill? I was told 1 32mg pill treats 300g of water so I figure 80% of 1 pill should be enough for 170g. Do you guys think this will be OK? 3. I also take a very close look of the RB (before main light turns off) but I couldn't confirm exactly if these are RB or not. I didn't notice the classic red dot or red tail of RB. Is that possible I have misidentify normal pods (that happen to live in the acro) as RB?

03/25/2011, 02:14 PM	#143
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	Yes it looks exactly like that packaging. It expires on 2013; not even close. Any other thoughts? FYI. I will provide another update tonight but this morning even without light, I can clearly see pods crawling on the sump glass.

03/25/2011, 03:00 PM	#145
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	Problem is RB is so freaking small, it's hard to notice. If I don't see any today, it might be because they are all dead or that I have missed them. As I mentioned earlier, I saw a few before the treatment when lights are on so I will have to look closely tonight when I get home. I think the fact that I still have many pods on the glass crawling could be a pretty good indication that maybe the RB has survived as well. If that's the case: 1. It sucks. 2. I have no idea how they survive. Maybe a second treatment will get them?

03/25/2011, 03:02 PM	#146
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	Btw, if all my corals are easily removable, I would have done this. Takes a few minutes instead of days.