250 Gallon room-divider project log - Page 6

Ah64av8tor · 03/15/2007, 12:15 PM

Just a thought, If it was easy we would not be where we are now and everyone would have an Ich free reef.

mbunaman · 03/15/2007, 01:14 PM

I gave up on the the whole hypno thing. I did it and still got ick on my blue hippo 8 months latter. But I noticed giving them food with garlic and selco seems to prevent the fish from getting ick. Of course the cysts are still in the tank but it is a war I gave up on. Long as your fish is healthy it should have no problem fighting it off in an established system. Now I just do a two week qt just to observe the fish and make sure it is feeding and healthy before it goes into the display.

jeffbrig · 03/15/2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mbunaman
I gave up on the the whole hypno thing.

I'm not sure if "hypno" would be effective, either.

For now, we've ordered a big UV sterilizer that will be arriving tomorrow. We're also hunting for a 6' tank that we can set up temporarily to house the fish. We're pretty much in agreement that while most fish would probably be ok, we're not comfortable leaving the ich untreated with types of sensitive tangs we like to keep.

Ah64av8tor · 03/15/2007, 06:01 PM

Jeff,

Look at this,

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1063395

Slamajama · 03/15/2007, 06:08 PM

just awesome...

jeffbrig · 03/15/2007, 06:14 PM

Greg,

That looks good except its in Bradenton.

--Christy

Ah64av8tor · 03/15/2007, 06:52 PM

It's just down the street from me......shipping will cost you though!

jeffbrig · 03/15/2007, 07:28 PM

Greg,

Do you deliver?

--Christy

maxxII · 03/15/2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ufchristyb
I don't really know about that. The statement, there were no new additions to my tank is not the equivalent of running a tank fallow without fish. The scientific reasoning behind leaving a tank fallow is sound. I think many times people have ich in their systems that doesn't show until a period of stress. Hence, there were no new additions to my tank for a year and then ich broke out. But the ? is why did it break out - was there a period of stress or poor water quality, so that a fish, which had normally been not susceptible now is stressed and is therefore capable of breaking out in it?

I think running fallow can work. Our liverock originally came from a store with a lot of ich in their systems. It sat fallow in our tank for 6-8 mos before the first fish was added. I am fairly certain there was no ich in our tank prior to recently given that there have been many periods of stress/new fish additions and the achilles has never shown signs before now. So I do think running fallow can work, I just wonder how long is needed to truly wait out the life cycle and have everything die off. I also wonder if there is any chance ich can host on things like clams/starfishes or leathery corals, if so, there would be no way to eliminate it completely. The literature however seems to suggest this is impossible.

Right now, I am leaning toward pulling the fish and setting up a large hypo QT tank and letting the display go fallow for 8-10 weeks. We also bought a UV sterilizer today to put on the display, which I hope will help to neuter the little buggers and help the eradication during the fallow process. That being said, Jeff and I still haven't fully decided what to do yet.

Setting up a large QT and catching the fish will be a huge amount of work (not that this matters) and will cause stress on the fish (my biggest concern), but I am worried about what the future will hold if we don't do this. There were no stressors in our tank, and our Achilles is our healthiest, alpha fish, and he broke out worst, so I don't think we have a situation like many people have where ich is always present in the tank and never becomes problematic unless there is other stress.

Please keep the comments and discussion going, this has been tremendously helpful to me.

--Christy

Christy,
You make excellent points and you are very much correct that no new additions does not = tank left fallow for the same amount of time....
I should have re-phrased my statement. The point I was trying to make was that the owner of the tank is much like you guys obscessive/compulsive/anal retentive (

) about QT. His system was up and running for a lengthy period of time, 3 years IIRC, with the newest addition being in the tank for a year. No signs of ich until a random outbreak one day.

Here's the important question....how are the fish today?

Nick

ufchristyb · 03/15/2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maxxII
Here's the important question....how are the fish today?

Fish are acting normal, eating like pigs and aren't showing any signs of distress. Most of the cysts appear to have fallen off the achilles, he has skin skuffs now mainly and only a few grains. The powder blue has a few more grains than yesterday, and the purple is still showing a few grains.

We are still in the air on how to react to this. I would normally take a wait and see approach for a few weeks, but we are running out of time. We will be vacationing in June, and I would want the display put back together by then, so if we are going to pull the fish out and run fallow we need to make that decision soon and get the process going.

--Christy

maxxII · 03/15/2007, 08:29 PM

Good to hear.

I understand the urge to act immediately...pay attention to the fish and their behavior, that will tell you more than enough.

Nick

ufchristyb · 03/16/2007, 08:05 PM

Hey Nick,

Fish look great today. All the cysts have dropped off and the achilles skin skuffs have already healed. No visible signs of ich in just 48 hours. Does this mean our fish are healthy and able to fight this off? Do you think the next outbreak will be worse, and the one after that still worse? Thats kind of what I want to avoid.

Thanks for all your input.

--Christy

45commando · 03/16/2007, 08:55 PM

Hey Jeff & Christie,sorry to hear about the recent bad news.I think you'll find the UV may really help with any future outbreaks(& you'll have crystal clear water to boot).I couldn't bear the thought of tearing the tank down to catch my fish,but you guys are a lot more dedicated than me.Good luck with whatever option you take.Best,Darcy

maxxII · 03/16/2007, 09:41 PM

Christy,
I think you guys are going to see a smaller outbreak, maybe another one after that, and it'll be done.

You will most likely see a small outbreak again when you add fish or stress things out severely.

I think their quite capable of fighting this off. You guys have busted your butts to create a healthy and stable environment for these guys. Why are you suprised when it pays off???

Nick

ufchristyb · 03/17/2007, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by maxxII
I think their quite capable of fighting this off. You guys have busted your butts to create a healthy and stable environment for these guys. Why are you suprised when it pays off???

I guess our initial panic was fueled by the fact that all of these fish had ich when we first got them and they were not in the best of shape at that time. Our achilles got a severe outbreak in quarantine initially, and despite being dropped into hypo, it still took him a good 10 days or so to shake off all of the cysts, and during that time his breathing was not good, etc. So, when we saw the ich this time, we flashed back to our prior experiences. But, I am realizing now our fish are a lot healthier and I guess in much better shape to fight this off.

How many "outbreaks" have you had in your display over the years and have any been severe, and have you lost any fish from it?

--Christy

maxxII · 03/17/2007, 02:01 PM

I think I've had maybe 3 outbreaks in a three year period. Have not lost any fish to the outbreaks.
In that time period, we had some serious power outtages due to our fantastic electrical company, Ameren UE. In one instance the tank was without power for 48 hours, until we were able to buy a generator and get it going.

We also moved the tank from our apartment when we bought our house, (thats was fun.)

The third and final outbreak was when I introduced my regal angel. Oddly enough, the regal never showed signs of ich, but the Tomini tang did for a few days.

None of these outbreaks lasted very long. The longest was about 5 days when we moved the tank. I'm getting ready to set up a bigger tank here soon and wont be surprised if I get a mild out break while transfering everyone over.

Nick

ufchristyb · 03/17/2007, 02:30 PM

Hi All,

For those of you who are local, Coral Reef Farm is starting a new special. Every Tuesday anything in the store will be buy one, get one half off. Happy shopping!

--Christy

p.s. Can you guess where Jeff and I spent the afternoon shopping?

jeffbrig · 03/19/2007, 12:03 PM

Just a quick update. All of the fish are looking great. We hooked up a 36w UV sterilizer over the weekend, which should help kill some of the free swimming ich parasites.

I also went through my MHs this weekend to figure out why one bulb wasn't firing. Looks like the bulb blew, which surprises me. This was an Ushio 250w DE with <1000 hours on it. The inside of the bulb's outer jacket is fogged white, and there's a black powder and a tiny piece of glass floating around inside (though the arc tube seems to be intact).

I pulled the non-working pendant and arranged the other two over the tank. The PFO pendants cover the tank pretty well (approx. 5' wide), so now we're talking about using the third to light a 24x24x12" sps QT / frag tank.

We also acquired a few more corals. Reef's Edge had a nice shipment of Bali aquacultured pieces, and 3 small colonies found their way into an empty salt bucket that I happened to be carrying at the time.

Then, at Coral Reef Farm this weekend, we picked up two small acro frags and a pair of cleaner shrimp. Not that I think they help against ich, mind you.

After work, I have to finish with the VHO actinics so we can break out the tripod and take some pictures for the March photo contest (actinic shots).

jeffbrig · 03/20/2007, 07:11 AM

I put the VHOs over the tank last night, and Christy and I took turns taking pictures for the March photo contest (theme: actinic shots)

These were our favorites:

100mm, f16, 2 sec.

100mm, f16, 4 sec.

Ah64av8tor · 03/20/2007, 07:44 AM

....... OMG, you'll get my vote ...... Christy no heart breaking stories this time ok

ufchristyb · 03/20/2007, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ah64av8tor
....... OMG, you'll get my vote ...... Christy no heart breaking stories this time ok

Yes, but who will you vote for? I took the zoo shot and Jeff did the acro.

Just joking, Jeff's really is a great photo. I just like the zoos because they feel so alive even in their photo.

Did you recognize the subjects as pieces from Bryan? I think all of my fav pieces came from him in one fashion or another.

--Christy

Ah64av8tor · 03/20/2007, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ufchristyb
Did you recognize the subjects as pieces from Bryan? I think all of my fav pieces came from him in one fashion or another.

--Christy

I recognized the Eagle Eyes and I thought that the Acro was one also.

Anyway they look great!

I just wish I could take a decent pic, hopefully someday.

sethd12 · 03/20/2007, 11:16 AM

Those pics are absolutely amazing, especially that acro picture!!

Fishboy1230 · 03/20/2007, 01:10 PM

Beautiful acro, What type of acro is it?

jeffbrig · 03/20/2007, 02:47 PM

No idea, so I'm going to call it Acropora pretty-when-under-actinics.

03/15/2007, 12:15 PM	#126
Ah64av8tor Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Bradenton Fl. Posts: 2,362	Just a thought, If it was easy we would not be where we are now and everyone would have an Ich free reef. __________________ Greg Fish geek <')))>< Current Tank Info: Old School Reefer: Building a new 225 from the old 150 gal SPS main display, 125 gal sump W/ 10 year old Plenum, 40 gal miracle mud refugium, Reeflow 250 Skimmer, Korallin C3002 Calcium Reactor W/ 30’secondary chamber, 2 Ice cap 250w MH SE W/ AquaC

03/15/2007, 06:01 PM	#129
Ah64av8tor Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Bradenton Fl. Posts: 2,362	Jeff, Look at this, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1063395 __________________ Greg Fish geek <')))>< Current Tank Info: Old School Reefer: Building a new 225 from the old 150 gal SPS main display, 125 gal sump W/ 10 year old Plenum, 40 gal miracle mud refugium, Reeflow 250 Skimmer, Korallin C3002 Calcium Reactor W/ 30’secondary chamber, 2 Ice cap 250w MH SE W/ AquaC

03/15/2007, 06:08 PM	#130
Slamajama Registered Member. Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 54	just awesome... __________________ No Headache...No sweat Mon Current Tank Info: 120 Gallon Reef Set-up

03/15/2007, 06:14 PM	#131
jeffbrig Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Posts: 5,548	Greg, That looks good except its in Bradenton. --Christy __________________ Beware the power of stupid people in large groups..... Current Tank Info: formerly 250g room divider

03/15/2007, 06:52 PM	#132
Ah64av8tor Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Bradenton Fl. Posts: 2,362	It's just down the street from me......shipping will cost you though! __________________ Greg Fish geek <')))>< Current Tank Info: Old School Reefer: Building a new 225 from the old 150 gal SPS main display, 125 gal sump W/ 10 year old Plenum, 40 gal miracle mud refugium, Reeflow 250 Skimmer, Korallin C3002 Calcium Reactor W/ 30’secondary chamber, 2 Ice cap 250w MH SE W/ AquaC

03/15/2007, 01:14 PM	#127
mbunaman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago,IL Posts: 1,031	I gave up on the the whole hypno thing. I did it and still got ick on my blue hippo 8 months latter. But I noticed giving them food with garlic and selco seems to prevent the fish from getting ick. Of course the cysts are still in the tank but it is a war I gave up on. Long as your fish is healthy it should have no problem fighting it off in an established system. Now I just do a two week qt just to observe the fish and make sure it is feeding and healthy before it goes into the display.

03/15/2007, 07:28 PM	#133
jeffbrig Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Posts: 5,548	Greg, Do you deliver? --Christy __________________ Beware the power of stupid people in large groups..... Current Tank Info: formerly 250g room divider

03/15/2007, 08:29 PM	#136
maxxII Super Housemonkey! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 4,442	Good to hear. I understand the urge to act immediately...pay attention to the fish and their behavior, that will tell you more than enough. Nick __________________ A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun!"

03/16/2007, 08:05 PM	#137
ufchristyb Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 269	Hey Nick, Fish look great today. All the cysts have dropped off and the achilles skin skuffs have already healed. No visible signs of ich in just 48 hours. Does this mean our fish are healthy and able to fight this off? Do you think the next outbreak will be worse, and the one after that still worse? Thats kind of what I want to avoid. Thanks for all your input. --Christy __________________ GO GATORS! Current Tank Info: Possible future 55g unreef safe fish tank

03/16/2007, 08:55 PM	#138
45commando Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 1,321	Hey Jeff & Christie,sorry to hear about the recent bad news.I think you'll find the UV may really help with any future outbreaks(& you'll have crystal clear water to boot).I couldn't bear the thought of tearing the tank down to catch my fish,but you guys are a lot more dedicated than me.Good luck with whatever option you take.Best,Darcy __________________ "It's not the size of the dog in the fight;It's the size of the fight in the dog!" -Sir Winston Churchill. Current Tank Info: 92G Corner tank, 250 wt 14K MH, 20G sump, 5G fuge, mixed reef

03/16/2007, 09:41 PM	#139
maxxII Super Housemonkey! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 4,442	Christy, I think you guys are going to see a smaller outbreak, maybe another one after that, and it'll be done. You will most likely see a small outbreak again when you add fish or stress things out severely. I think their quite capable of fighting this off. You guys have busted your butts to create a healthy and stable environment for these guys. Why are you suprised when it pays off??? Nick __________________ A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun!"

03/17/2007, 02:01 PM	#141
maxxII Super Housemonkey! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 4,442	I think I've had maybe 3 outbreaks in a three year period. Have not lost any fish to the outbreaks. In that time period, we had some serious power outtages due to our fantastic electrical company, Ameren UE. In one instance the tank was without power for 48 hours, until we were able to buy a generator and get it going. We also moved the tank from our apartment when we bought our house, (thats was fun.) The third and final outbreak was when I introduced my regal angel. Oddly enough, the regal never showed signs of ich, but the Tomini tang did for a few days. None of these outbreaks lasted very long. The longest was about 5 days when we moved the tank. I'm getting ready to set up a bigger tank here soon and wont be surprised if I get a mild out break while transfering everyone over. Nick __________________ A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun!"

03/17/2007, 02:30 PM	#142
ufchristyb Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 269	Hi All, For those of you who are local, Coral Reef Farm is starting a new special. Every Tuesday anything in the store will be buy one, get one half off. Happy shopping! --Christy p.s. Can you guess where Jeff and I spent the afternoon shopping? __________________ GO GATORS! Current Tank Info: Possible future 55g unreef safe fish tank

03/19/2007, 12:03 PM	#143
jeffbrig Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Posts: 5,548	Just a quick update. All of the fish are looking great. We hooked up a 36w UV sterilizer over the weekend, which should help kill some of the free swimming ich parasites. I also went through my MHs this weekend to figure out why one bulb wasn't firing. Looks like the bulb blew, which surprises me. This was an Ushio 250w DE with <1000 hours on it. The inside of the bulb's outer jacket is fogged white, and there's a black powder and a tiny piece of glass floating around inside (though the arc tube seems to be intact). I pulled the non-working pendant and arranged the other two over the tank. The PFO pendants cover the tank pretty well (approx. 5' wide), so now we're talking about using the third to light a 24x24x12" sps QT / frag tank. We also acquired a few more corals. Reef's Edge had a nice shipment of Bali aquacultured pieces, and 3 small colonies found their way into an empty salt bucket that I happened to be carrying at the time. Then, at Coral Reef Farm this weekend, we picked up two small acro frags and a pair of cleaner shrimp. Not that I think they help against ich, mind you. After work, I have to finish with the VHO actinics so we can break out the tripod and take some pictures for the March photo contest (actinic shots). __________________ Beware the power of stupid people in large groups..... Current Tank Info: formerly 250g room divider Last edited by jeffbrig; 03/19/2007 at 12:09 PM.

03/20/2007, 07:11 AM	#144
jeffbrig Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Posts: 5,548	Fun with actinics I put the VHOs over the tank last night, and Christy and I took turns taking pictures for the March photo contest (theme: actinic shots) These were our favorites: 100mm, f16, 2 sec. 100mm, f16, 4 sec. __________________ Beware the power of stupid people in large groups..... Current Tank Info: formerly 250g room divider

03/20/2007, 07:44 AM	#145
Ah64av8tor Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Bradenton Fl. Posts: 2,362	....... OMG, you'll get my vote ...... Christy no heart breaking stories this time ok __________________ Greg Fish geek <')))>< Current Tank Info: Old School Reefer: Building a new 225 from the old 150 gal SPS main display, 125 gal sump W/ 10 year old Plenum, 40 gal miracle mud refugium, Reeflow 250 Skimmer, Korallin C3002 Calcium Reactor W/ 30’secondary chamber, 2 Ice cap 250w MH SE W/ AquaC

03/20/2007, 11:16 AM	#148
sethd12 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 941	Those pics are absolutely amazing, especially that acro picture!! __________________ -500 gallon mixed reef

03/20/2007, 01:10 PM	#149
Fishboy1230 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 275	Beautiful acro, What type of acro is it?

03/20/2007, 02:47 PM	#150
jeffbrig Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Posts: 5,548	No idea, so I'm going to call it Acropora pretty-when-under-actinics. __________________ Beware the power of stupid people in large groups..... Current Tank Info: formerly 250g room divider