Continuous feeding NPS filter feeders - Page 6

aninjaatemyshoe · 08/13/2010, 03:09 PM

Gresham means that marine-based feeds (ie frozen brine, prawn ova, etc.) spoil quickly even in chilled water (worse in freshwater because there is an ionic imbalance). Chilling the water would be better than room temp water, but still not great. The best choice would be to add the food to the tank immediately after it is thawed, but this isn't an easy option for continuous feeding.

GreshamH · 08/13/2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishfreak218

Oh okay, so you recommend feeding only foods that can be stored at room temperature, as chilling marine foods can cause nutritional degradation?
What method do you use/recommend to feed Gresham?

I would be out of a job if I made such assertions, I work in the refrigerated marine feed business

The method I would use would entail using Reef Nutrition feeds in a refrigerator and using the Steve Weast style plumbing as explained in this thread... but I would add the venturis

Aninjatemyshoe explained below

Quote:

Originally Posted by aninjaatemyshoe

Gresham means that marine-based feeds (ie frozen brine, prawn ova, etc.) spoil quickly even in chilled water (worse in freshwater because there is an ionic imbalance). Chilling the water would be better than room temp water, but still not great. The best choice would be to add the food to the tank immediately after it is thawed, but this isn't an easy option for continuous feeding.

Exactly

Fishfreak218 · 08/13/2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreshamH

I would be out of a job if I made such assertions, I work in the refrigerated marine feed business

The method I would use would entail using Reef Nutrition feeds in a refrigerator and using the Steve Weast style plumbing as explained in this thread... but I would add the venturis

Aninjatemyshoe explained below

Exactly

Ohh okay now i get it

Thank you Gresham and aninjatemyshoe

fullmonti · 08/13/2010, 08:00 PM

Is the Danny Dame recipe from page one still a good choice, or has some variation proven to work out better?

fullmonti · 08/20/2010, 03:08 PM

I know you posted another recipe, but no amounts/proportions or mixing info of the ingredients.

Aquabacs · 08/20/2010, 07:15 PM

This link might be what you are looking for:
http://stonyreef.com/blog/2008/feedi...ellate-corals/

Mike

fullmonti · 08/20/2010, 07:34 PM

That is the recipe of Danny Dames I was referring to. It has the most detailed info on mixing & amounts I've been able to find. Fauna Marin still has not put out there nps feeding manual. So I was wondering if that recipe was the best place to start, or if some variation has been found to be better?

Aquabacs · 08/20/2010, 08:03 PM

What corals are you looking to exactly feed? What way would you like to dispense the foods?

fullmonti · 08/20/2010, 08:21 PM

I'm about to start a build thread, but the short answers would be gorgonians, & carnation type corals mostly. I am self employed & home a lot so my plan is to feed manually many times a day. I'm thinking alternating frozen mini cubes of a FM mix & several dif kinds of liquid & dry foods.
Thanks
Jim

Aquabacs · 08/20/2010, 08:53 PM

You can do a modified version of that for cubes:

•3/8 tsp frozen cyclopeeze
•3/8 tsp Fauna Marin UltraLife
•3/8 tsp Fauna Marin Ultra MinF
•3/8 tsp FM Ultra Sea Fan
•3/8 tsp FM Ultra Clam
•2.5ml FM’s MinS
freeze them and feed the Reef Nutrition foods seperate.

One thing that I do is make Pac cubes by themselves. I make a tray or two of the cubes and keep them in a freezer bag. You can then use the Pac whatever way you want or if you dont mind leaving it out on the table (not freezing it) you can do that as well.

fullmonti · 08/20/2010, 09:11 PM

That seems similar & simpler recipe. I assume you are mixing these & let them set in refrigerator over nite then freezing?

And by Pac cubes do you mean Ultra Pac mix like Dannys recipe but just not mixing the two of them together for some reason?

Aquabacs · 08/20/2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullmonti

That seems similar & simpler recipe. I assume you are mixing these & let them set in refrigerator over nite then freezing?

I mix the Pac in a magic bullet blender. Let it sit, once it is clear and no clumps, mix all the foods then freeze.

And by Pac cubes do you mean Ultra Pac mix like Dannys recipe but just not mixing the two of them together for some reason?

Correct. Dont be afraid to experiment. Example: couple cubes of Pac with Oysterfeast, Shelfish Diet, Rotifeast direct feed to a Dendronephthya. You see how that particular coral likes it then adjust the feed as needed. More witchcraft than science

fullmonti · 08/20/2010, 10:00 PM

OK thanks for your input! I figure the more I can learn about this up front the less chance of torturing the livestock later.

If any one else has an extra 2 cents they would like to add feel free.

uhuru · 08/23/2010, 07:43 PM

Danny Dame has stated that most of his Dendronephthya shrunk and withered away over an 8 month period. We don't know whether this is natural, a result of inappropriate nutrition, or simply insufficient quantities of food. Like Aquabacs said, don't be afraid to experiment, but please share whatever you do and learn with the rest of us so that we can continue to build on it. Also keep in mind there may be species differences. What works for one may not work for the other. You see Dendronephthya everywhere from arctic waters, to temperate reefs, to tropical coral reefs right next to SPS where they may be exposed to the air and hot sun for prolonged periods, and to mangrove lagoons growing right on mangrove branches.

capecoral · 08/29/2010, 08:00 AM

Hey... have not read the thread yet (soon!), but it sounds like my other one...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1843241

Looks like a long lost twin bother

Aquabacs · 09/01/2010, 05:20 PM

2.0 version of the refridgerated autofeeder

Mike

dainiusiva · 09/02/2010, 01:24 AM

you are really advancing the dark side of reef keeping.what do you plan on next? water autochanger?

uhuru · 09/05/2010, 10:19 AM

Low quality video of venturi feeder in action with my new fridge. Please turn up the volume so you can hear the venturi "sucking." The louder sound is the magnetic stirrer. Couple other things to note:

1) Yes I know the plumbing is crooked. I took it straight from my original setup which used a larger fridge, and it didn't quite fit in this fridge as well. Oh well, it works great and doesn't take away from the aesthetics of the tanks, and thats all that matters to me.

2) I use individual pumps which has its pros and cons. The pumps can run at the same time, this doesn't seem to cause any problems but I did change the program on my RKL so that they come on staggered 10 minutes apart. I am just testing here but I dose SD, RF and a mixture of frozen/dry foods every hour. The frozen/dry foods are mixed in the flask by a magnetic stirrer, which comes on at the same time as the pump. I also added an air pump in case the stirrer jams or fails the food still gets stirred. The entire flask is dosed within 12 hours. That's about 1.2L, or a ton of food! But it also feeds the fishes. This works GREAT for the fishes BTW. They pretty much just pick at food from the water column all day and get fat. Great for my anthias and OSFF. I dose OF every 8 hours as it tends to kill the skimmer for at least 2-3 hrs.

3) Aquabacs (Mike) really discovered the best fridge to use for this IMO. It keeps everything cooler than my compressor fridge did and uses very little electricity (less than a standard light bulb according to the box). From what I can tell it uses large computer fans. You can get it online from Staples with free 1 day shipping if you pick up in store.

Pics coming after video:

uhuru · 09/05/2010, 10:56 AM

How I drilled through this fridge (Avanti 1.7 cu. ft.) and narrowly avoided another disaster:

1) Using the correctly sized hole saw, very carefully drill only through the THIN plastic lining on the inside of the fridge where you plan to run the pipe through.

2) Using a large flat head screwdriver or spoon, gently scoop out the insulation all the way through until you get to the metal sheet on the other side.

3) Look inside the hole carefully to ensure that there are no wires or pipes in the way. Then use the hole saw again to drill through the metal. Make sure you use a hole saw designed to drill through metal. Here you can see how I avoided shredding up a wire using this method. The wire is probably connected to the light switch. The light switch also controls whether the fridge turns on or off - so if you destroy the wire, you have no working fridge.

Finished product. Crowded, but I can still get in there and change out the flask or bottles easily. In case you're wondering why 4 pumps and only 3 bottles, behind the bottle of RF is a bottle of OF.

slapshot · 09/05/2010, 11:05 AM

Oh I was so going to get on you about the crooked pipe.

That looks great. I can't wait to hear if you notice a difference in your animals. Keep up the great work!

uhuru · 09/05/2010, 11:30 AM

Haha, I bet it is kind of irritating to look at for some of you neat freaks - but hey, the fridge door stays closed 99% of the time and looks great otherwise

I think the biggest difference I'm going to see is better water quality, less problems with pathogenic bacteria, infections, algae outbreaks, etc. Really the biggest benefit of all this is that the food stays fresh for as long as possible. Second is much easier maintenance since bottles will last for weeks. I know Gresham doesn't support mixing of the frozen and dry foods with water but still it's gotta be better than doing it at room temperature which I have been doing for a long time (and I've been dealing with mysterious bacterial infections in my tank for a long time).

slapshot · 09/05/2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uhuru

I know Gresham doesn't support mixing of the frozen and dry foods with water .

He doesn't? Why?

uhuru · 09/05/2010, 12:40 PM

It starts breaking down as soon as it goes into the water.

slapshot · 09/05/2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uhuru

It starts breaking down as soon as it goes into the water.

Understanding where he works and his loyaties (and I use a lot of their products) but how would you then feed dry food? drop it into the tank dry?

uhuru · 09/05/2010, 09:29 PM

Yes Mike feeds dry foods that way and Claude as well. I used to do it that way but since I also want to feed frozen cyclopeeze and nutramar ova throughout the day this is the most practical way at this time. Maybe Gresham should look into doing a preserved/suspended cyclopeeze product and ova product! I currently buy my frozen food in bulk, saves me a ton of money. For my dream tank build in the future I will have a freezer above the tank functioning as a surge tank.

08/13/2010, 03:09 PM	#126
aninjaatemyshoe Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 2,333	Gresham means that marine-based feeds (ie frozen brine, prawn ova, etc.) spoil quickly even in chilled water (worse in freshwater because there is an ionic imbalance). Chilling the water would be better than room temp water, but still not great. The best choice would be to add the food to the tank immediately after it is thawed, but this isn't an easy option for continuous feeding. __________________ You are not brought upon this world to "get it"

08/20/2010, 03:08 PM	#130
fullmonti now is the time Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: chattanooga tn Posts: 1,097	I know you posted another recipe, but no amounts/proportions or mixing info of the ingredients. Last edited by fullmonti; 08/20/2010 at 03:34 PM.

08/20/2010, 07:15 PM	#131
Aquabacs Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yonkers, NY Posts: 1,581	This link might be what you are looking for: http://stonyreef.com/blog/2008/feedi...ellate-corals/ Mike __________________ Put down the halide and step into the shade...welcome to the darkside of reefkeeping. FM UltraLith system since 7.3.08 Current Tank Info: 50 gallon rimless non-photosynthetic

08/20/2010, 08:03 PM	#133
Aquabacs Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yonkers, NY Posts: 1,581	What corals are you looking to exactly feed? What way would you like to dispense the foods? __________________ Put down the halide and step into the shade...welcome to the darkside of reefkeeping. FM UltraLith system since 7.3.08 Current Tank Info: 50 gallon rimless non-photosynthetic

08/20/2010, 08:53 PM	#135
Aquabacs Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yonkers, NY Posts: 1,581	You can do a modified version of that for cubes: •3/8 tsp frozen cyclopeeze •3/8 tsp Fauna Marin UltraLife •3/8 tsp Fauna Marin Ultra MinF •3/8 tsp FM Ultra Sea Fan •3/8 tsp FM Ultra Clam •2.5ml FM’s MinS freeze them and feed the Reef Nutrition foods seperate. One thing that I do is make Pac cubes by themselves. I make a tray or two of the cubes and keep them in a freezer bag. You can then use the Pac whatever way you want or if you dont mind leaving it out on the table (not freezing it) you can do that as well. __________________ Put down the halide and step into the shade...welcome to the darkside of reefkeeping. FM UltraLith system since 7.3.08 Current Tank Info: 50 gallon rimless non-photosynthetic

08/13/2010, 08:00 PM	#129
fullmonti now is the time Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: chattanooga tn Posts: 1,097	Is the Danny Dame recipe from page one still a good choice, or has some variation proven to work out better?

08/20/2010, 07:34 PM	#132
fullmonti now is the time Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: chattanooga tn Posts: 1,097	That is the recipe of Danny Dames I was referring to. It has the most detailed info on mixing & amounts I've been able to find. Fauna Marin still has not put out there nps feeding manual. So I was wondering if that recipe was the best place to start, or if some variation has been found to be better?

08/20/2010, 08:21 PM	#134
fullmonti now is the time Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: chattanooga tn Posts: 1,097	I'm about to start a build thread, but the short answers would be gorgonians, & carnation type corals mostly. I am self employed & home a lot so my plan is to feed manually many times a day. I'm thinking alternating frozen mini cubes of a FM mix & several dif kinds of liquid & dry foods. Thanks Jim

08/20/2010, 09:11 PM	#136
fullmonti now is the time Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: chattanooga tn Posts: 1,097	That seems similar & simpler recipe. I assume you are mixing these & let them set in refrigerator over nite then freezing? And by Pac cubes do you mean Ultra Pac mix like Dannys recipe but just not mixing the two of them together for some reason?

08/20/2010, 10:00 PM	#138
fullmonti now is the time Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: chattanooga tn Posts: 1,097	OK thanks for your input! I figure the more I can learn about this up front the less chance of torturing the livestock later. If any one else has an extra 2 cents they would like to add feel free.

08/23/2010, 07:43 PM	#139
uhuru Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbus Posts: 2,949	Danny Dame has stated that most of his Dendronephthya shrunk and withered away over an 8 month period. We don't know whether this is natural, a result of inappropriate nutrition, or simply insufficient quantities of food. Like Aquabacs said, don't be afraid to experiment, but please share whatever you do and learn with the rest of us so that we can continue to build on it. Also keep in mind there may be species differences. What works for one may not work for the other. You see Dendronephthya everywhere from arctic waters, to temperate reefs, to tropical coral reefs right next to SPS where they may be exposed to the air and hot sun for prolonged periods, and to mangrove lagoons growing right on mangrove branches.

08/29/2010, 08:00 AM	#140
capecoral Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: cape coral, fl Posts: 396	Hey... have not read the thread yet (soon!), but it sounds like my other one... http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1843241 Looks like a long lost twin bother

09/01/2010, 05:20 PM	#141
Aquabacs Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yonkers, NY Posts: 1,581	2.0 version of the refridgerated autofeeder Mike __________________ Put down the halide and step into the shade...welcome to the darkside of reefkeeping. FM UltraLith system since 7.3.08 Current Tank Info: 50 gallon rimless non-photosynthetic

09/02/2010, 01:24 AM	#142
dainiusiva Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 396	you are really advancing the dark side of reef keeping.what do you plan on next? water autochanger?

09/05/2010, 10:19 AM	#143
uhuru Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbus Posts: 2,949	Low quality video of venturi feeder in action with my new fridge. Please turn up the volume so you can hear the venturi "sucking." The louder sound is the magnetic stirrer. Couple other things to note: 1) Yes I know the plumbing is crooked. I took it straight from my original setup which used a larger fridge, and it didn't quite fit in this fridge as well. Oh well, it works great and doesn't take away from the aesthetics of the tanks, and thats all that matters to me. 2) I use individual pumps which has its pros and cons. The pumps can run at the same time, this doesn't seem to cause any problems but I did change the program on my RKL so that they come on staggered 10 minutes apart. I am just testing here but I dose SD, RF and a mixture of frozen/dry foods every hour. The frozen/dry foods are mixed in the flask by a magnetic stirrer, which comes on at the same time as the pump. I also added an air pump in case the stirrer jams or fails the food still gets stirred. The entire flask is dosed within 12 hours. That's about 1.2L, or a ton of food! But it also feeds the fishes. This works GREAT for the fishes BTW. They pretty much just pick at food from the water column all day and get fat. Great for my anthias and OSFF. I dose OF every 8 hours as it tends to kill the skimmer for at least 2-3 hrs. 3) Aquabacs (Mike) really discovered the best fridge to use for this IMO. It keeps everything cooler than my compressor fridge did and uses very little electricity (less than a standard light bulb according to the box). From what I can tell it uses large computer fans. You can get it online from Staples with free 1 day shipping if you pick up in store. Pics coming after video:

09/05/2010, 10:56 AM	#144
uhuru Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbus Posts: 2,949	How I drilled through this fridge (Avanti 1.7 cu. ft.) and narrowly avoided another disaster: 1) Using the correctly sized hole saw, very carefully drill only through the THIN plastic lining on the inside of the fridge where you plan to run the pipe through. 2) Using a large flat head screwdriver or spoon, gently scoop out the insulation all the way through until you get to the metal sheet on the other side. 3) Look inside the hole carefully to ensure that there are no wires or pipes in the way. Then use the hole saw again to drill through the metal. Make sure you use a hole saw designed to drill through metal. Here you can see how I avoided shredding up a wire using this method. The wire is probably connected to the light switch. The light switch also controls whether the fridge turns on or off - so if you destroy the wire, you have no working fridge. Finished product. Crowded, but I can still get in there and change out the flask or bottles easily. In case you're wondering why 4 pumps and only 3 bottles, behind the bottle of RF is a bottle of OF.

09/05/2010, 11:05 AM	#145
slapshot Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Farmington Hills, Michigan Posts: 1,791	Oh I was so going to get on you about the crooked pipe. That looks great. I can't wait to hear if you notice a difference in your animals. Keep up the great work!

09/05/2010, 11:30 AM	#146
uhuru Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbus Posts: 2,949	Haha, I bet it is kind of irritating to look at for some of you neat freaks - but hey, the fridge door stays closed 99% of the time and looks great otherwise I think the biggest difference I'm going to see is better water quality, less problems with pathogenic bacteria, infections, algae outbreaks, etc. Really the biggest benefit of all this is that the food stays fresh for as long as possible. Second is much easier maintenance since bottles will last for weeks. I know Gresham doesn't support mixing of the frozen and dry foods with water but still it's gotta be better than doing it at room temperature which I have been doing for a long time (and I've been dealing with mysterious bacterial infections in my tank for a long time).

09/05/2010, 12:40 PM	#148
uhuru Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbus Posts: 2,949	It starts breaking down as soon as it goes into the water.

09/05/2010, 09:29 PM	#150
uhuru Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbus Posts: 2,949	Yes Mike feeds dry foods that way and Claude as well. I used to do it that way but since I also want to feed frozen cyclopeeze and nutramar ova throughout the day this is the most practical way at this time. Maybe Gresham should look into doing a preserved/suspended cyclopeeze product and ova product! I currently buy my frozen food in bulk, saves me a ton of money. For my dream tank build in the future I will have a freezer above the tank functioning as a surge tank.